Talk:Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961

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Merge

Agree w. suggestion to merge. Most of the content is directly copy and pasted from the main incident article. YechielMan 17:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree to merge with
Leul Abate to warrant a seperate article. -- Rehnn83 Talk 10:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
Don't agree: The incident described in the main article was third(!) hijacking Capt. Abate experienced. It is rather unusual for a pilot to be hijacked three times in his lifetime. I don't have any details about the first two hijackings. But maybe someone will come up with this information, and then the "Leul Abate" article would make sense. Gugerell 17:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't agree: Few other aviators ever accomplished this great feat of flying. Capt. Abate deserves his own article. Anonymous
Merge. Do not see any further expansion of this bibliography. Noting the other two hijackings, are there any sources on that? Furthermore, this article repeats the same information described in the airliner incident. KyuuA4 06:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't agree: I have fleshed out this article to be more about Abate's experiences during the hijacking and his previous two hijacking attempts. It should be fairly distinct from the EA Flight 961 article now. I will continue to find more research into Abate to get some background information. Wackjum 18:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. Again, there has been no expansion of his article. The only information in his article that wouldn't fit in this article is his birth year. Every other piece of information is detailing the incident, or is related enough (his other hijackings) that it could easily be mentioned in this article. If anything, he could have his own subsection of this article. Either way, while that article focuses on his experience in this incident... it's still documenting this incident, not his life. TheHYPO (talk) 06:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't agree: This man was heroically involved in 3 incidents, should have own entry to reflect this. 84.125.194.115 (talk) 04:19, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there someone with a subscription to Highbeam research? I want to know the name of the third hijacker of Ethiopian 961

I found this: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-64680823.html

It gives names of two of the hijackers, but the third only has his given name. I want to know his surname too.

So, does someone with a subscription to Highbeam work here? WhisperToMe (talk) 20:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did Ethiopian Airlines ever release a conclusive victim and survivor list of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961?

Did Ethiopian Airlines ever release a conclusive victim and survivor list of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961? I have never seen one?

If the list has country info for each passenger that would be good. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Large whitespace

Something needs to be done about the huge whitespace beneath Fate of the passengers and crew. Maybe move the {{multicol}} to the bottom of the section? --Pyho T / C 01:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hijacking planned by al-Qaida?

According to Debka.com, the hijacking was aimed to kill 5 heads of Israeli Defence Industries (IWI), and an american secret agent named Leslie Shed, head of the CIA's Addis Abbeba station

See: http://www.debka.com/article/21018/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.120.132.67 (talk) 14:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether it is appropriate to discuss the matter here. Further opinions will help.--Jetstreamer (talk) 17:00, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
On the face of it -- no. A hijacking by three idiots who thought the plane could make Australia. However, hidden beneath this obvious interpretation is a whole second secret layer of meaning -- no, and it's a very specious claim. While it does have a vague resemblance to al-Qaida attacks (idiots with a pretty poor understanding of reality killing a lot of people on the basis of massive ignorance), al-Qaida didn't declare war on America until 1997 IIRC. MartinSFSA (talk) 10:03, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, of course it is the easiest way to blame the hijackers as well as other terrorists as idiots and to stop every discussion this way. However, I have doubts that the hijackers did not know the limited fuel would never bring them to Australia. Otherwise, it is also easy always to blame al-Qaeeda was responsible for this or that attack all over the world. --Roksanna (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That source is not reliable. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where was this plane hijacked ?

The introduction appears to state that the plane was hijacked during the Addis-Nairobi leg of the multistage flight. Why does it then subsequently claim that the hijackers took over the plane when it entered Ethiopian airspace ?? On a flight from Addis to Nairobi, surely it would be leaving Ethiopian airspace.Eregli bob (talk) 01:50, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done.--Jetstreamer (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it was entering Kenyan airspace when it was hijacked WhisperToMe (talk) 06:04, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cover image

So, we have an image of the hijacked plane from several years before the crash - and we have images of the plane during its crash landing - so why is the top image for the article if a "similar" plane? Why not have the crash landing images there? Ego White Tray (talk) 03:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Map Needed

One thing that would greatly improve the article is a map showing (1). The maximum range of a fully fueled 767 from the point of departure. (2). The maximum range of a 767 as actually fueled from the point of departure.Graham1973 (talk) 06:59, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Material Lacking Citation

Uncited note of an appearence of the crash on an American TV show:

  • ...and also appeared in the documentary Out of the Wreckage - Plane Crash Survivors, which features crashes that were caught on camera and with survivors.[citation needed]

Placed here until a citeable reference for the fact can be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graham1973 (talk • contribs)

I don't think this sentence adds very much to begin with - as far as I'm concerned, it could be left out entirely. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Was this the only wide-body water landing with survivors? Viviand0097 (talk) 09:18, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To the best of my knowledge, it was.--Jetstreamer Talk 10:25, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing that the A320 is classified as a narrow-body airliner rather than a widebody, hence why US Airways Flight 1549 isn't in that list, correct? The Legacy (talk) 04:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the A320 is a narrow-body aircraft. Which list are you referring to?--Jetstreamer Talk 10:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actual number of hijackers

I've marked the "The hijackers said that there were eleven of them when in fact there were only three" claim as needing sources. This is not mentioned in <ref name="AirDisaster" /> Maybe 123.243.122.42 (talk · contribs), which seems to be much more familiarised with the Mayday episode than me, can check whether this stuff is mentioned there. Thanks.--Jetstreamer Talk 12:28, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the claim is correct. The Mayday episode mentions this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.122.42 (talk) 12:36, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Great, I'll use this reference to support the claim. Thank you!--Jetstreamer Talk 12:40, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. I have the episode on DVD. If you require any other assistance, I'll do my best to provide information from the episode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.122.42 (talk) 12:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the merge proposal of Leul Abate into this article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Seeing that I was the only one that participated in the discussion, I'm closing this as No consensus.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd tend to agree with the merger, but only after

Leul Abate is appropriately sourced. The crash article is much better sourced than the other one. For the time being I say no.--Jetstreamer Talk 00:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply
]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Recent reversion

Regarding this, I explained my edit reasoning in my edit summary ([1]), but can repeat it here. It removed two links to other useful articles, plus it is perfectly valid to use notes in articles. What's wrong with it? BTW, reverting is not a fun for me.--Jetstreamer Talk 17:15, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Given that there has been no replies to my comment above. I'll be reverting the edit in question in a week or so unless otherwise specified.--Jetstreamer Talk 00:01, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Archived references not used in the article

  • "Terror Aloft, Death at Sea". The New York Times. 1 December 1996. Archived from the original on 24 May 2012.

--Jetstreamer Talk 00:13, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ET961 seat map and passenger manifest disparities and explanations

This is in regards to the final accident report.

http://www.fss.aero/accident-reports/dvdfiles/ET/1996-11-23-ET.pdf
According to the seat map: The three cabin crew in the front died. In the back two cabin crew survived while the other two died.
PASSENGER SURVIVORS according to the passenger manifest:
::7C
8A, 8B, 8F
9A, 9F, 9G
10G
13D
14E
22C, 22D
23C, 23E
24C, 24E, 24F
25C, 25D, 25E, 25G
26D, 26E, 26F, 26G
27E, 27F, 27G
28B, 28F, 28G
29G
31E, 31D
32D
33C, 33D, 33E, 33F, 33G
34C, 34D, 34E, 34F
The four "N" seats are 26D, 33F, 34D, 34E. The other survivors are "S" seats. The seats not having survivors are either unoccupied (Blank) or fatality seats (Marked with an "F").
Fatality seats
:1A, 1E, 1G
2A, 2C
7A, 7B
8C
10C, 10E
11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E, 11F, 11G
12A, 12C, 12D, 12E, 12F, 12G
13A, 13B, 13C, 13F, 13G
14A, 14B, 14C, 14D, 14F, 14G
17A, 17C, 17D, 17E, 17F, 17G
18A, 18B, 18C, 18D, 18E, 18F, 18G
19A, 19B, 19C, 19D, 19E, 19F, 19G
20A, 20B, 20C, 20D, 20E, 20F, 20G
21A, 21B, 21C, 21D, 21E*, 21F, 21G
22A, 22B, 22E, 22F, 22G
23A, 23B, 23D, 23F, 23G
24A, 24B, 24D, 24G
25A, 25B**, 25F
26A, 26B
27A, 27D
28A, 28C, 28D, 28E
29A, 29B, 29F
30A, 30B, 30C, 30D, 30E, 30F, 30G
31A, 31B**, 31C, 31F, 31G
32A, 32B, 32C**, 32F, 32G
33A, 33B
34A, 34B, 34G
  • =Same seat listed twice on the manifest for two different passengers
    • =Hijacker's seat
NOTES A: Ethiopian Airlines seems to have marked 22C, 22D, 25G, and 34E as unoccupied seats (blank) on the seat map, but the manifest says they were occupied by survivors
NOTES B: Ethiopian Airlines seems to have marked 7F, 9C, 9E, and 10B as survivor seats (S) on the seat map, but I haven't found passengers in those seats on the manifest.
  • EXPLANATION for A and B: I understand why the discrepancy is in place. The passengers for 22C and 22D were Frank "Pancho" Huddle and his wife Chanya "Pom" Huddle. Huddle says he got a last minute upgrade to business class - So I think what happened was that the four seats were economy class passengers upgraded to business class at the last minute. In that case, please in case of a conflict between the passenger manifest and seat map, use the seat map
Possibly the cabin crew may have occupied some of the other seats: the jet only shows seven cabin crew seats but there were nine cabin crew on the flight
NOTE C: The manifest stated that the hijackers had occupied seats 25B, 31B, and 32C. AFAIK they were NOT in their seats when the plane crashed (at the time they were fighting the pilots and/or standing guard outside). But I don't think it was an error to show their seats as fatalities on the seat map.
NOTE D: The map stated that 7D and 29E had fatalities but I did not see a 7D or a 29E in the passenger fatalities manifest
NOTE E: The same seat is listed twice on the manifest for a fatality: 21E: Ahmed Ibrahim (Egypt) and 21E: CE Grace (Nigeria)

WhisperToMe (talk) 04:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the Huddle's stuff can be mentioned in a note. Separately, don't you think the seat map can be enlarged a bit?--Jetstreamer Talk 10:36, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Wrong wording?

In the last sentence of the first paragraph, it says "The is the only (partially) successful water landing recorded of a wide-body aircraft." is "The is the only..." supposed to be "This is the only..."? Poopykibble (talk) 03:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Poopykibble: Looks to me like you're right. Be bold! If you don't fix it, I will. SchreiberBike | ⌨  04:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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