Talk:Frank Hsieh

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Mayorlty of Kaohsiong

"In 1998, Hsieh was elected the Kaohsiung Mayor. Under his administration, the walls of many parks and schools were taken down. As a result, the city seemed more connected to the people. He also managed to improve the water qualities of rivers, including Love River. Hsieh improve the quality of the port of Kaohsiung. " This wasn't NPOV so I changed the wording slightly. I expect everyone will be OK with it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.41.34.190 (talk • contribs)

Taiwan

This article is similar to Chen Shui-bian, I think it should be protected for the same reason.--Jerrypp772000 22:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality, etc

The current Chinese naming conventions are disputed, therefore, we have to get to an agreement on whether using Taiwan is more appropriate or ROC on different fields. On the "Nationality" field, I agree to use ROC (Taiwan), as ROC is the sovereign nation. However, as there is a consensus on the talk page of Chen Shui-bian, the birthplace field shouldn't have ROC in it.--Jerrypp772000 23:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stop trying to create your own random conventions. It is fact, true, and law that Frank Hsieh's Nationality is the
Republic of China. His nationality is not "Taiwanese" because there is no such state. It says clearly that all citizens of the ROC's nationality is Republic of China. Check on your own passport Jerrypp772000. I know you have a Republic of China passport and are a citizen of the ROC. You are committing treason against your own country.TingMing 23:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
What are you saying, can you read more carefully, I said I agree to use ROC (Taiwan).--Jerrypp772000 00:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do not agree to use ROC (Taiwan). There is no such thing. Again, crank out your green Republic of China passport and check your nationality field. Hsieh has the same one. There's no getting by that the nationality is the Republic of CHINA! TingMing 00:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
ROC (Taiwan) would be more appropriate though, because Taiwan is the common name. In my POV, even Taiwan alone may be appropriate. However, the current disputed conventions say we should use ROC (Taiwan), and that's what we should use!--Jerrypp772000 00:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Put aside your own POV. Why dont you take a look at your passport and resort to the facts. TingMing 01:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly suggest you to withdraw from every discussion right now, because you are treating them as debates in which you must win out. Come back when you are ready to take into other people's inputs peacefully enough for a proper discussion. Also, I strongly disagree that others should refrain from expressing their own POV for discussion while you yourself are allowed (by yourself) to push your own POV without recognizing it as one. Vic226說 05:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
TingMing, you said The Premier's Title was never changed to be Republic of China (Taiwan) stop fabricating. Notice that "Premier of the ROC" is not even the official title.--Jerrypp772000 22:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "Taiwan" in parenthesis serves to clarify the term "Republic of China" (or at least throw readers off enough so that they will click on the link). It only need to appear once in the article, at the first mention.--Jiang 22:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Republic of China (Taiwan) is the current standard usage internationally. You may notice that oversees "embassies" have been changing their signs and letterhead to read this, because most people around the world do not realize that ROC=Taiwan. Whatever the legal situation may be, in reality ROC pretty much means the area of Taiwan.

We have a good discussion going on about this very issue. Please feel free to join the discussion on naming conventions here. --Folic Acid 14:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Political view

I think we should add info about Hsieh's political view, such as 和解共生, etc.--Jerry 23:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent POV Pushing

I reverted a bunch of recent posts because they were clearly uncited POV pushing. For example:

Also, more and more people are proud of living in Kaohsiung. Kaohsiung was widely considered to be improved a lot by the Hsieh administration.[1]

became

Also, more and more people are leaving Kaohsiung because of the high unemployment rate (number 1 in Taiwan). Kaohsiung was widely considered to be a fake image and decending city by the people in Taiwan.

One could argue that the original block was POV, but it was referenced. If you want to remove it, please explain why the reference is invalid. Do not simply replace with an unreferenced biased statement. Perhaps the best thing to do if you think balance is missing would be to provide another sentence describing a different POV and a reference for that POV.

Another example by a different editor:

Hsieh is married to Yu Fang-chih (游芳枝); together, they have a son (adapted) and a daughter. He and his wife believe in Sung Chi-li (宋七力), which was once a notorius religion in Taiwan, having over ten thousand followers at its height.

became

Hsieh is married to Yu Fang-chih (游芳枝); together, they have a son (adopted) and a daughter. Unlike his counterpart in the 2008 election, none of his immediate family are US citizen nor are they hiding in the US.

In this case the original was not perfect. calling the religion "notorious" is POV and should be changed or deleted if someone who knows more about the religion can do so. Or alternatively a good citation would be acceptable. Adding the attack on Ma is not acceptable. This is an article about Hsieh, not Ma. Readin (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article has a big section about Ma. Hsieh made an accusation that Ma had a U.S. green card. That much applies to Hsieh. The rest talks about Ma. Perhaps for the specifics about Ma's green card or lack of green card the reader should be referred to a page on Ma or to a page on the

2008 Taiwanese Presidential election, and the details can be provided there. Readin (talk) 15:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

I discovered that the article on the election contained identical information, so I referred the reader there. Readin (talk) 15:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ [1], Kaohsiung e-Paper, 2004/08/26

He only has a Master's Degree?

"Hsieh received his Bachelor of Laws degree from National Taiwan University and completed a Master of Laws degree from Kyoto University. He was a practicing attorney from 1969 to 1981, serving as a defense attorney in the martial courts following the Kaohsiung Incident of 1980." How could he practice law if he didn't have a PhD? I thought a PhD was required to practice law. Readin (talk) 23:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously each country's regulations are different. A Bachelor of Laws alone (plus passing the bar exam) qualifies one to practice law in Taiwan. Chen Shui-Bian, for example, is famous for passing the bar exam while only a junior in his undergraduate (i.e. before he even graduate from Bachelor). But even in the US, a PhD equivalent (called Doctor of Juridical Science) is not a prerequisite for practicing law. What they need is a Juris Doctor (JD) which is a professional doctorate that takes 3 years. Donquixotean (talk) 08:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Name

I'm pretty sure (absolutely sure, actually) that the standard transcription of his family name would be Siā. Chiā in Peh-oē-jī is equivalent to 'jia' in pinyin, and is not the Taiwanese / Min Nan pronounciation of that character. Am I missing something? Are there indeed two ways that character can be pronounced?

talk) 19:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

OK, one person got back to me, and apparently the name can be pronounced Siā or Chiā, so I am going to undo my own change. Anyone who has any info on this, please get back to me. Thanks.
talk) 14:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

Source for ancestry from dongshan island

http://www.china.org.cn/english/China/239354.htm

talk) 20:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply
]

China.org.cn being a Chinese website shouldn't be accepted as a reliable source for anything about Taiwan, especially anything that might touch on identity or politics, due to the difficult relations between the two countries and China's heavy internal censorship. However I've added a BBC source to the article. It doesn't support everything the article says about Mr. Hsieh's ancestry so we should still try to find a better source. Readin (talk) 22:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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