Talk:Love for Sale (Bilal album)/GA1

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 08:03, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Taking this article on per your request! --K. Peake 08:03, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

• Replace hlist with bullet points
  • talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Maybe you should do that with flatlist instead? Also, try to not to add too many bullet points because it can make the separate lines jumbled. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Done.
  talk) 13:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Alternative R&B is not sourced as a genre and the mention in the aftermath and legacy section does not verify it
  • The source uses "left-field R&B", which is synonymous with alternative R&B ([1], [2]), and I've added it to
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Currently, this needs changing or else it does not go well with
  WP:STICKTOSOURCE. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Okay, I've removed it from the infobox.
  talk) 13:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Target Universal to Universal Music Group
  • Done.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "second album by the American singer-songwriter" → "second studio album by American singer-songwriter"
  • I wanted to avoid the use of
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "in which Bilal" → "of which Bilal"
  • Both are grammatically correct, but "in" avoids closely consecutive use of "of" in this sentence.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "from the producer-driven," → "from the mostly producer-driven,"
  • Slightly too wordy this way, and "driven" connotes it is mostly rather than exclusively.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "At Electric Lady, he held" → "At Electric Lady Studios, he held"
  • The studio is mentioned in full in the earlier paragraph, and it is commonly referred to as "Electric Lady". Also, on mobile devices, the infobox follows the first paragraph and mentions the studio as "Electric Lady". It is also better to not make that sentence any longer than it already is, IMO.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "with a live band featuring the trumpeter" → "with a live band that featured trumpeter" to stop over usage of "the"
  • "The" is a common article, and as mentioned above I made an effort to avoid false titles. I would be more concerned with using too many verbal constructions in a single sentence, like "held" then "featured" then "enlisted"...
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• What do you mean by common article? And it is too wordy to overuse "the" throughout this page. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• talk) 13:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• You can keep this usage then, and ignore wherever else I have suggested for you to remove "the" in a similar context. --K. Peake 16:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "the drummer Steve McKie, and the pianist" → "drummer Steve McKie, and pianist"
• "one of several former classmates" I know this part is in reference to Glasper and that Thomas was a classmate too, but was McKie one as well? If yes, then try to reword this, if otherwise then keep as it is.
  • McKie was not.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "from jazz and the blues" → "from jazz and blues"
  • Blues is generally referred to as "the blues", particularly in mid-sentence ([3]).
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The source itself does not say "the blues" however, so the suggested phrasing is definitely correct. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The Shook source uses "the blues" throughout its magazine, while the other source doesn't say "the blues" because it is using the genre as an adjective to describe "arrangements" -- i.e. "blues arrangements".
  talk) 13:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• I was just unsure because Beats, Boxing and Mayhem said "with blues and jazz arrangements". You can keep as it is; this is not offending anyone --K. Peake 16:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink song structures
  • Done.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "The album's experimental nature was met with resistance from Interscope," → "The experimental nature of Love for Sale was resisted by Interscope,"
  • This is a less natural way of saying the same thing; met with resistence is the more common phrasing for this context.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "delayed its release and demanded Bilal record new music." → "demanded Bilal record new music and delayed the release."
  • Done.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "continued to lobby the album" → "continued to lobby it"
  • "It" may be too vague for readers, by chance they don't connect or understand "lobby", which can mean "lobby" the album, or "lobby" the label.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• A common issue I noticed with the lead is that there are too many uses of "the album" and "it" in the paras; try to only write "the album" once for each para and do not use "it" consecutively, even though it can be used more than once in a para. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Okay. I've made a change.
  talk) 13:38, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• "its recordings in the studio." → "the recordings in the studio."
• "and circulated widely" → "and was circulated widely"
  • "was" is less assertive phrasing, and "circulated" means the same thing as a verb/action.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "by shelving Love for Sale's commercial release" → "by shelving its commercial release"
  • It is good to mention the album's name once in the paragraph, and in this place, it feels most appropriate. Also, "it" can be too vague to discern whether it is the leaked mix that is being referred to or the planned album in the abstract.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "to tour performing its songs" → "to perform the songs on tour"
  • This makes the connection less direct. The touring, rather than merely performing the songs on an otherwise unrelated tour, was a direct result of the leak's popularity, as he says: "We were able to tour off that album..."
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "and a forerunner to" → "and a forerunner of"
  • Done.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "by the end of the 2000s." → "by the end of the 2000s decade." – I know the 2000s century is not close to ending, but this still reads awkwardly
  • Done.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "control of the album's" → "control of its"
• "and another company owns its" → "and another company owns"
• "although its songs remain" → "although the songs remain"
  • I've revised it to be closer to the suggestions above.
    talk) 11:43, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The suggested wording works when you have already said "its songs" earlier. --K. Peake 13:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I've revised the latter point to "the songs".
  talk) 13:40, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Img looks good
• "He soon left the school" → "Bilal soon left the school"
  • Done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Target R&B to Contemporary R&B
• Target hip hop to Hip hop music
  • Done, done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "tribute concert the following year" → "tribute concert in 2000" because the previous year was mentioned two sentences back
  • Done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "beginning when the label" → "beginning when the record label" with the wikilink
  • Done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Target demo to Demo (music)
  • Done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "his prospective debut album" → "his prospective debut studio album"
  • Unnecessary, since it is a debut irrespective of what kind, and that he worked with producers suggests it is a studio album.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "and became a top-10 R&B chart hit," → "and became a top 10 R&B chart hit in the United States," for proper context
  • Okay, but I've used "U.S.", since
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "did not want to labelled" → "did not want to be labeled"
  • Done.
    talk) 12:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The first image is not appropriate because not only is Studio A of Electric Lady not directly mentioned, but the pic is from 2014; remove or replace
• "This experimentation informed his" → "The experimentation informed his"
• Target keyboard to Keyboard instrument
• Remove wikilink on singer-songwriter
  • The term is contextually relevant enough to link -- Bilal's artistic direction in relation to this is discussed.
    talk) 10:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "He tells Vibe magazine" → "Bilal told Vibe magazine" since any sources that are not citing books/newspapers themselves should use past tense for this context
• "The label acquiesced to" → "The record label acquiesced in"
• "of the rock musician" → "of rock musician"
• Target music journalist to Music journalism
• "the singer-songwriter Erykah Badu, and the rapper" → "singer-songwriter Erykah Badu, and rapper"
• "inspired by the blues singer" → "being inspired by blues singer"
• "such as the hip hop producers" → "such as hip hop producers"
• "Glasper and the trumpeter" → "Glasper and trumpeter"
• "The Philadelphia-based drummer Steve McKie" → "Philadelphia-based drummer Steve McKie"
• "improvise in jam sessions." → "improvise in the jam sessions."
  • "The" indicates something the speaker has already mentioned, or something uniquely specific (
    talk) 10:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "McKie recalls walking into the studio" → "McKie recalled walking into Electric Lady Studios" since the source mentions it being that studio
• Target bass amp to Bass amplifier
• Target kick to Bass drum
• "with recording techniques at the studio," → "with recording techniques in the studio,"
• "from jazz and the blues, influenced by" → "from jazz and blues, being influenced by"
  • The source's phrasing suggests the arrangements, rather than Bilal, were inspired by those artists. The introduction of "being" would connote otherwise.
    talk) 10:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "and the bassist-composer" → "and bassist-composer"
• "who assisted the production" → "who assisted the production of Love for Sale" to be specific
• "the singer explains." → "the singer explained."
• Remove target on hip hop
• "Common and the vocal group" → "Common and vocal group"
• "McKie recalls of the sampler." → "McKie recalled of the sampler."
• "entire process making Love for Sale, Bilal says he" → "entire process of making Love for Sale, Bilal said he"
  • Apart from the responses above, all points addressed here.
    talk) 10:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• "Gipson adds that it" → "Gipson added that it"
  • Present tense for discussion or context of fictional work, contextual presentation, etc. (
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "club's blog, recognizes jazz" → "club's blog, recognized jazz"
• "also describes the sound as" → "also described the sound as"
• "considers it" → "considered the album"
• Target folk to Folk music
• Prefixmag.com → Prefixmag
• "the jazz fusion group" → "jazz fusion group"
• "and the experimental rock musician" → "and experimental rock musician"
• "calls the music" → "called the music"
• "is exemplified here" → "is exemplified on Love for Sale"
• Is the word "slick" really encyclopaedic?
  • I replaced it with "glossy".
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "makes note of" → "made note of"
• "Brad Farberman observes" → "Brad Farberman observed"
• "with what Amorosi describes as" → "with what Amorosi described as"
• "DJ Rahdu detects a sample of the" → "DJ Rahdu noticed a sample of"
• Target piano chords to Chord (music)
• "a remake of the" → "a remake of"
• Target to "Sorrow Tears and Blood" should only be on "of the same name"
• "Bilal cites Kuti's mix" → "Bilal cited Kuti's mix"
• You could definitely do with adding more text to the audio sample
• "in what Tullis suggests" → "in what Tullis suggested"
• "Haithcoat identifies his voice" → "LA Weekly's Rebecca Haithcoat identified his voice"
• "to Sly Stone."" → "to Sly Stone"." since that is not a full sentence quoted
• "describes it as" → "described the track as" to be more specific
• Target ballads to Sentimental ballad
• "the album-opening "Something to Hold on To"" → "Love for Sale's opening track "Something to Hold on To""
  • I think the current wording avoids the tongue-twisting double L-word possibility. And I don't see a grammatical issue with either.
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The main issue here is that it has been too long since you have mentioned the album's title; any form of wording that includes the title would be acceptable. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• How about a closer mention here?
  talk) 12:25, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• It is fine to use "the album" now, but I have done some slight copy editing to the reference of the song as its opener. --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink love songs
  • Too common a word, and
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "as he tells the lyrics" → "as he told the lyrics"
• "According to LA Weekly's Rebecca Haithcoat," → "According to Haithcoat,"
• "The lyric," → "The line,"
• "self-commentary as he" → "self-commentary while he" to avoid repetitive wording
  • It would be more repetitive with "while", which appears immediately in the following sentence.
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "While Godfrey finds that song's" → "While Godfrey found the song's"
• "Haithcoat observes more" → "Haithcoat observed more"
• "citing the line," → "specifically citing the line,"
  • Redundant, as "citing" itself means to specify something as an example.
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "love song" and" → "love song" while" to make it clearer what the part later in the sentence refers to one of
• "features a lyric," → "features the line,"
• "received from Badu who told him, as he recounted" → "received from Erykah Badu, who told him, as he recounted"
  • Apart from the responses above, all other points addressed here.
    talk) 11:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• "Bilal presented the album" → "Bilal presented Love for Sale"
• "he tells" → "he told"
• "offered a similar reaction." → "offered a similar reaction;"
  • This is not essential, and would require lower-casing the next word, which would appear strange when the next quote is upper case.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Grammar wise, it is definitely a lot smoother though. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "the singer explains." → "the singer explained."
• "He also previewed" → "Bilal also previewed"
• "to lobby the album," → "to lobby Love for Sale,"
• "with the label." → "with the record label."
• "on new parts to some of the album's recordings" → "on new parts for some of the recordings"
• "He composed a" → "Bilal composed a"
  • There is no ambiguity as to who the "he" is here.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• It has been too long since you have mentioned his name, so using "he" is too repetitive. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink audio engineer
  • talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Not in this context; audio engineer is just as commonly linked as mixed in album articles. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Target mixed to Audio mixing (recorded music)
• "recalls Interscope insisting" → "recalled Interscope insisting"
• "Bilal cites this compounding conflict with the label" → "Bilal cited this compounding conflict with the record label"
  • "Record label" has already been used in full earlier in this section. "Label" is commonly used for short.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "hosted by the" → "that was hosted by the"
  • same difference, and it appears the current wording is more common than the suggested.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "from his first album, the premier" → "from 1st Born Second, the premiere"
• "was expected in September of that year," → "was expected in September 2005," because otherwise it leads to confusion about what year the expectation was in
  • The paragraph is intrudoced as being in 2005.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• It has been too many sentences since you last mentioned the year; that is the issue. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "In January 2006, he performed" → "In January 2006, Bilal performed"
  • It is clear to readers Bilal is the one referenced, whereas in the next sentence it is necessary to define him.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "Badu, and Musiq Soulchild" → "Erykah Badu, and Musiq Soulchild"
  • Badu is already mentioned in full close enough at an earlier point in the article.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• This is not his real name though and since he is only mentioned thrice in the article plus not consecutively, you should use the full stage name on each occasion. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Target effects pedals to Effects unit
• "was still mixing the album" → "was still mixing Love for Sale"
  • Too repetitive number of mentions in this paragraph, and there's no apparent ambiguity about what album is referenced.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Target vinyl to Phonograph record
• "shared on peer-to-peer networks and blogs," → "shared on blogs and peer-to-peer networks," because it is not sourced anywhere that the blogs were P2P
• Target MySpace to Myspace
• "could end in the album" → "could lead to Love for Sale"
  • "Love for Sale" appears over 50 times in this article, compared to 32 for "the album". And save for an issue of ambiguity, let's not worry about specifying the title.
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The term "the album" was used most recently though, meaning it is appropriate to mention the title at this point and that being used the most happens often when you have other albums mentioned in the article as well. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "he explains." → "he explained."
• Prefixmag.com → Prefixmag
• "with many debating the label's" → "with many debating the record label's"
• Target WBUR to WBUR-FM
• "his previous project."" → "his previous project"."
• "writes Swan." → "wrote Swan."
• "regards it as" → "regarded it as"
• "Bilal believes the rumors" → "Bilal believed the rumors"
• "attributes the leak to" → "attributed the leak to"
• "and calls it a" → "and called it a"
• The Blurt citation is not envoked at the end of the above sentence
• "says it rendered" → "said it rendered"
  • Apart from the responses above, all other points addressed here. The issue of past vs. present tense, I've allocated a space for discussion
    talk) 11:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • More copy-edits per the above responses.
      talk) 12:32, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]

• Shouldn't a different img be used since the concert hall is not mentioned anywhere in this section?
  • The location of the concert is an ancillary detail. The pertinence of the image is illustrating a show from that period (
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "would be another artist" → "would become another artist"
• "similar to D'Angelo" → "similarly to D'Angelo"
  • Neither sounds natural actually. I've made it "as had been the case with..."
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "recounts Larrier." → "recounted Larrier."
• "Aliya Ewing explains, it" → "Aliya Ewing explained, the album"
• "while Gipson says it" → "while Gipson said it"
• "and performing the album's songs," → "and performing the songs from Love for Sale,"
• Target bootleg to Bootleg recording
  • Much of these wikilink suggestions feel like common words (
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "this line-up would accompany" → "the line-up would accompany"
  • "This" is a reference to something immediate for the reader ([4])
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "he says recalling its" → "he said when recalling its"
  • This strikes me as stiff and overly formal writing. "When" is implicit in the phrasing.
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• You are correct; I had made this comment when I was unaware of how comments should be written in the present tense. --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "Jalylah Burrell chronicles," → "Jalylah Burrell chronicled,"
• "similar to Prince and" → "similarly to Prince and"
• "a writer living in London at the time" is this info really notable?
  • It contextualizes not only the disillusionment with American mainstream music, but also the location of the Jazz Cafe.
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "from the U.S. and" → "from the US and"
  • Either can be used so long as it's consistent with other similar abbreviations (
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Sorry I was not aware of that guideline, plus you had not used "the U.S." earlier in the article until after I had made comments. --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• "Hendrix's Fender Stratocaster." → "Hendrix's guitar the Fender Stratocaster."
  • Hendrix used a variety of guitars. The suggested wording implies too strong an ownership of that particular one.
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• The usage of "the" is still needed for the proper name though, so I added that for you. --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Target 17th century literature to 17th century in literature
• "for his new songs" → "for Bilal's new songs"
  • I'm not sure this is needed. Bilal is already mentioned in the paragraph, and Godfrey is a woman with no association with songs. And the context of the sentence is quite clear.
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "for the Post." → "for The Washington Post."
  • The newspaper is commonly referred to as
    talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • Apart from the responses above, all other points addressed here.
      talk) 12:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]

• "The album's widely positive reception" → "The widely positive reception toward Love for Sale"
  • Another preposition ("toward") to join "among", along with the title, would make for a lengthy complicated clause to start a sentence off, not to mention a paragraph. But I've revised it to mention the title at least.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "from Love for Sale's saga," → "from the album's saga,"
• "He compares the development" → "He compared the development"
• "during these years" you should specify what period this is referring to
  • The time frame implied is the years after the leak as he toured. I've mentioned that now.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "what Lindsey describes as" → "what Lindsey described as"
• "Larrier explains that its" → "Larrier explained that its"
• "his peers in soul" → "his peers in soul music" to be clearer
  • "Soul" is referenced all throughout the article as a genre, and not so far away at an earlier point as "soul music" in the preceding section. It is also referred to as "the genre" in this very sentence.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "it showcased an experimentation" → "the album showcased an experimentation"
  • Too many "the album"'s, especially when there is no ambiguity here. Even if the reader were to connect the "it" as the earlier clause ("its genre-defying direction"), it would still makes sense and mean the same thing, practically, accurately.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "Bilal's third album," → "Bilal's third studio album"
  • This is not contextually relevant. And most albums are recorded in studios. So it can go without saying.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "an
  independent label" → "an independent record label
  " with the wikilink
• "to his avenging the circumstances" → "to him avenging the circumstances"
• "and darker storytelling," → "as well as darker storytelling,"
• "Bilal believes" → "Bilal believed"
• "comparing it to" → "comparing the situation to"
  • Calling it "the situation" would not make anything more specific, whether it is the underground triumph or the label standstill being referred to, or all of it. "It" suffices just as much without the extra words.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "through his 2011 Little One Tour supporting" → "through his the Little One Tour in 2011 for support of" or something similar because "the" is missing currently
  • I kept the same phrasing but reduced the title of the tour to "Little One" in the manner of this source.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "to his opening performances" → "to Bilal's opening performances"
• Target Tom Hull – on the Web to Tom Hull (critic)
• "calls it his best album," → "called it his best album,"
• "calls it" → "labeled the album"
• "deems it a" → "deemed it a"
• "it remains" → "the album remains"
• "names it one of his five favorite albums." → "named it one of his five favorite albums in 2017."
• "calls it "phenomenal" and highlights" → "called it "phenomenal" and highlighted"
• Target jungle to Jungle music
  • I don't believe that is implied. I just think the atmosphere of the song evokes that sensibility for him, the steamy erotic animalistic associations with the jungle. To my ear, the song itself has nothing to do with the music genre.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "Hart considers it the" → "Hart called Love for Sale the"
• "it would have been" → "the album would have been"
• Lowercase
  MOS:THEMUSIC
• "Bilal says it was" → "Bilal said it was"
• "Larrier believes the" → "Larrier believed the"
• Maybe you should mention that A Love Surreal is Airtight's Revenge's successor?
  • I think it is implied (also mentioned in the infobox), but either way, not contextually relevant, pertinent to what is being discussed.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "McKie considers his production" → "McKie named his production"
  • Naming implies specifying something by name; "production and drumming" are more general things, contributed roles rather than titles of something.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "and "innovative" as it" → "and "innovative", as it"
• "while recording the album," → "while recording Love for Sale,"
  • The title is already mentioned twice in this paragraph earlier, once close enough to this sentence.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "split double album," → "split double album"
  • I think the reader can benefit from a pause (one of the purposes of a comma), after such a lengthy description ("hip hop duo Outkast's split double album")
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Commas are only supposed to be used before writing the album's title after an introduction in the lead, though. --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikilink music video
• "for their original "Sorrow, Tears & Blood" recording." → "for "Sorrow, Tears & Blood"." because no other version is mentioned in this article
  • Reuniting for a concert performance may suggest they performed this song live...
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "for whatever reason."" → "for whatever reason"."
• "A version of "Rocket Love" appeared" → "A live version of the "Rocket Love" cover appeared"
• "Bilal says there are" → "Bilal said there are"
• Target E1 Music to
  Entertainment One Music
• "the label that would release" → "the record label that would release"
  • They are actually a label of different mediums, not just records. But again, too much "record label"'s.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• "he suggests that his" → "he suggested that his"
  • Apart from the above responses, all other points addressed here.
    talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• in their native Houston, → in their native city of Houston,
  • Done.
    talk) 13:17, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Copyvio score looks relatively poor at 42.2%

• • The score is heightened by the mention of the Kinder high school name in the footnote, which is unavoidable and shows up in the copyvio comparison. The album title's appearance in the source is also a small factor. After a test edit in which I removed the high school's name from the article, the score went down to 39.8%
    talk) 13:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Fix
  MOS:CAPS
  issues with a number of the sources
• Cite Genius as publisher instead
• Cite Life + Times as publisher instead and target to Jay-Z
  • It should be italicized as it is a
    talk) 14:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Prefixmag.com → Prefixmag
• Target WBUR to WBUR-FM
• Cite AllMusic as publisher instead
• St. Louis sources will not load in my country of the UK due to the country belonging to the European Economic Area; do you think you could add archives to make the sources accessible universally because people in my country and other ones will experience this issue otherwise?
  • Wayback machine does not have an archive available for those pages unfortunately.
    talk) 14:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Cite TheCable Lifestyle as publisher instead
  • The Cable Lifestyle is a newspaper/periodical. It should be italicized.
    talk) 14:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Cite CHRY 105.5 FM Music Department as publisher instead
  • The publisher is WordPress. CHRY is a published work.
    talk) 14:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • All other points addressed here.
      talk) 14:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply
      ]

•  On hold after this lengthy review until you have fixed everything, and feel more than welcome to make comments like you have done so above! --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Isento ✓ Pass for this article now, after a timely review where we may have not always agreed but were able to resolve any points made! --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Side comments

Before you do that, I would like @

Isento I had no awareness of these guidelines and thought this article should be treated the same as other albums, but with it taken into account the album was never actually released, my comments lack proper merit in retrospective about tense and you don't need to implement those changes. Any changes where I have not replied above or will not in the future indicate that I agree with your responses and do not need them to be implemented. --K. Peake 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I plan to take this article to FA review, so for certainty's sake, it can be re-examined there.

talk) 14:21, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

Isento Good luck with Love for Sale as a FA candidate, the article is massive and you do have some great writing skills to be honest! --K. Peake 08:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you :)

talk) 13:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply

]

Just got the ping after being away for a few days, although it looks as if the issue's sorted out now. Congrats to Isento on another GA. Kyle Peake, just to confirm the argument for present tense: it's for all situations where the date of any commentary and interpretations is not relevant – ie, we'd only need the past tense if we're saying an author was writing in a particular year, because otherwise the commentary or opinion lives on, in the same way that qualities of an artistic work live on. Obviously, contemporaneous critical reception would all be in past tense, since we are treating those comments as part of a past event, tying in with an album's release.

Also, in articles about albums from the 1960s and '70s, certainly, it's so much easier to separate contemporaneous actions, such as what the artists did when making the records, from what biographers and journalists have said about those actions if the latter-day comments are presented in present tense. (In the most extreme examples, this can avoid the implication that a journalist or historian was in the studio at the time.) All in all, it's to avoid situations where a mass of information is laid out without any temporal context, when in reality, events are often separated from the commentary by around fifty years.

I don't know if that makes it any easier to grasp ... The issue becomes especially pertinent with albums or songs that have received substantial coverage for decades. Sgt. Pepper would be a perfect example, I imagine. JG66 (talk) 14:12, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]