Talk:Mandopop

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This article should actually be either renamed to "Taiwanese pop" or create another article describing "Taiwanese pop". Because nobody has even heard of Mandopop. There is no such thing. If you think Taiwanese pop is sung in Mandarin, and therefore it's Mandopop not Taiwanese pop, that's wrong as well. If I sing a song in Korean here, does that make it K-pop? If I sing a Japanese song, does that mean J-pop? No. Because the XXX pop just merely represents the style of the music not the language itself.

However, by putting Taiwanese pop into Mandopop without giving it a separate genre is very unfair and ignorant to the Taiwanese musicians. Have you not noticed that this article essentially is describing the Taiwanese styled music? Taiwanese style music has become the mainstream of Mandarin language pop nowadays. The "Taiwanese pop" doesn't mean it is sung in Hokkien Chinese, but rather, just Mandarin songs in Taiwanese style.

The reason why there is no Mandopop is that other countries such as China or Hong Kong do not have their distinct genre of music. There is no C-pop or HK-pop because the people in China just listen to Taiwanese pop. This is a fact. Most Chinese people listen to the Taiwanese artists rather than their own. And by deliberately generalizing Taiwanese pop into a sub genre of Chinese pop makes me doubt there is some political meaning in this.

To my knowledge, and to Google's knowledge, no one outside of Benjwong's inner circle uses Tai-pop to mean "Mandarin pop originating from Taiwan." I did a quick Google search, and heck, I even added identifiers to make sure we weren't confusing Tai-pop with "Gang Tai Pop." How many results did I get? A whopping 22. Let's end this "Tai-pop" nonsense. Pandacomics 01:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please check the edit history of

Taiwanese pop to see my contributions from awhile back. You are practically assuming I know nothing about the subject which is funny. I'll leave it out for now, because you seem quite positive everyone on the planet outside my circle calls Taiwanese pop correctly and mandopop correctly. We could sure use your expertise for the 60s and 90s era though. Feel free to contribute. Benjwong 05:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

I am not assuming you know nothing about the subject, because clearly you know enough about Taiwanese language pop enough to create an article about it. I'm just saying that you can't use "Tai-pop" to define Mandopop that is located on the island of Taiwan. Jay Chou is in Mandopop. An artist that sings in the Min Nan language and lives in Taiwan will be classified as Taiwanese pop, as you said. But what you're saying with the sentence "It is also called Tai-pop as a slang term" is that Tai-pop = Mandopop in Taiwan, which is false. Mandopop in Taiwan is Mandopop. Mandopop in Mainland China is also Mandopop. BTW, my expertise is in the late 90s to present, thank you very much. Pandacomics 12:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very true. Mandopop is the correct and official name everywhere "today". But please consider the historical context that at one time

hip hop. I don't know, perhaps they have newer names like New Taiwanese Song too? I guess I was interested in the historical context when I wrote it. Benjwong 13:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Well, Taiwanese language pop still more or less invisible outside of Taiwan because of the residual effects of the Taiwanese language ban. Yes, I am fully aware that the ban is lifted now, but I'm just saying that it's going to take a long time for Taiwanese pop (not Mandopop) to recover, especially in light of how fast Mandopop is growing (to areas like Malaysia and Singapore, for example). Pandacomics 14:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do we have any reliable sources specifically to back up that "Tai-pop" was or is a commonly used term? Google search doesn't seem to be returning much. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just talk to anyone who lived outside of Taiwan at the height of the martial law. Ask them "What is Tai-pop/Taiwan pop". I guarantee you 99% will make a reference to mandopop without knowing

Taiwanese pop even exist. We are making such a hard-and-fast rule with google, it is scary. At the least I agree with Pandacomics going forward, it is the right thing to do with the re-arrival of taiwanese pop. Benjwong 00:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

I'm not trying to use the number of Google hits to establish a term as "common" or not. I'm saying that, at least at a quick glance, I didn't find any reliable sources to confirm that this term is used to refer to Taiwanese pop music. Most of the Google hits on "Tai-pop" or "Taipop" don't even talk about Taiwanese pop music. I'm trying to stay neutral here, but in disputes, it always helps to actually have some sources. Are there actually news or magazine articles that use this term? It's fine that you may know a lot of people who know what "Tai-pop" is, but personally, this is the first time I've ever heard of this term, and nearly all the Chinese people I know lived outside of Taiwan during the height of martial law. Anecdotal evidence doesn't move the dispute along anywhere. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 08:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone tell me which term is the more popular for mandopop? (台灣歌, taiwan song) or (國語歌, mandarin song). Benjwong 19:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, considering Mainland China contributes a fair amount to the Mandopop industry (e.g. Li Yuchun), I'd say the latter is more neutral. Pandacomics 21:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure mainland has done anything for the Mandopop industry in the last 50 years. You might want to read up on Anita mui and the many artist performances censored in the mainland for being too sexy and rebellious. Supergirl is a "national" contest to prove there are great singers in China. They sing other people's song. When they market bad-ass songs, and the communist party approves it, then I'll be shocked. Until then 台灣歌 Taiwan pop, taiwan song goes hand in hand with mandopop. Benjwong 01:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not in the last 50 years, true, but again, you can't discount the amount of progress that the mainland is making in the Mandopop industry. The mainland duo, Yu Quan, is actually pretty big right now. I'll throw her name out again, but Li Yuchun helped start the short-hair fad in Mainland China.

Zhou Bichang won an award at Hong Kong's Mandarin Music Awards. Neither of them are censored. In fact, along with Liu Yifei, they're part of a new "SuperGirl" (my own term, NOT a technical one!) generation largely due to the cult following of the show. Most Mainland artists started in the late 90s, so they got a late start. By that time, Taiwanese juggernauts like Sky Wu, Zhang Yu, Harlem Yu (of Meteor Garden fame) and Shunza were in complete control of the Mandarin music market. Don't forget the fact that a lot of HK singers are, in fact, from the Mainland. Names that come into mind are Faye Wong and Leon Lai. So...I'd say that Mainland China does have some influence, just not as much as their Taiwanese counterparts. Pandacomics 01:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Unless I missed something. Both Faye Wong and Leon were marketed and launched 100% in HK. It's not where you are born, but where you become a "commercial" success. The mainland is in a special situation now. They are making these artificial supergirl contest forcefully to catch up to taiwan and HK. The real/natural/un-government sponsored market is visible at Chinese rock. Benjwong 02:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tai-pop would be a convenient contraction to distinguish Taiwanese artists but is unfortunately marred by the same pronunciation as Thai-pop. Note that Google Search lists a precedence for T-pop referring to Thailand and not Taiwan, interestingly there are minimal references for Siam-pop which would be the historical preference. 219.79.235.121 03:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The popular usage in the occident would be Sino-pop from Sino-, albeit as an alternative name to C-pop with the Mandarin language as the predominant form. Picking a reference at random from Google Search: Performing Arts. 219.79.235.121 03:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]