Talk:Mark Hudson (musician)

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As we appear to be heading for an edit war here, I'd like to start a debate on the information added to the article from Los Angeles Times. I believe that this information shouldn't be included here as there is no exact citing of sources; Journalist Chuck Philips wrote in a Mar 17, 1995 article published in the Los Angeles Times is not good enough as I see it when the information basically accuses the subject of sexual harassment. Also, the information submitted is basically one large excerpt/quote from LA Times, and should therefore be rewritten to conform with Wikipedia policies on neutrality and verifiability. The article mentions a book published by Begnery Publishing, written by Peter Schweizer called "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed", ISBN: 0895263874. Is this a trivial fact, or is it properly sourced in the book? As it stands today, I believe the information should be removed. Bjelleklang - talk Bug Me 12:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is properly sourced in the reference pages of the book. The LA times article can be sourced from the back issues of the newspaper. All sources are true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canderel (talk • contribs) 18:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is the text I've removed: Bjelleklang - talk Bug Me 12:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Journalist Chuck Philips wrote in a Mar 17, 1995 article published in the Los Angeles Times:

"Walt Disney Co. executives said Thursday that the company has fired the top staff producer of its rock music division, Hollywood Records, following complaints from female employees that he sexually harassed them.

The alleged incidents-the first such allegations of sexual harassment at a record company since a scandal rocked the music industry in 1991. They involve Mark Hudson, a Los Angeles songwriter and producer who over the last 20 years has worked on records for such pop stars as Alice Cooper and Aerosmith."

Philips continues:

"At Burbank-based Hollywood Records, women began complaining to senior managers last summer about Hudson's behavior, alleging that he verbally harassed them with lewd remarks and pressured them repeatedly to date him. Hollywood Records executives interviewed Hudson regarding the complaints and subsequently required him to visit a Disney-recommended specialist for counseling, sources said. Although Hollywood Records transferred two women employees to other departments, several other women continued to lodge complaints against Hudson as recently as last October.

It wasn't until last Thursday however, that Hollywood Records executives decided to take action-two days after Seconds magazine, a trade publication focusing on rock 'n' roll culture, published an interview with a former actress who appeared in the Broadway play "Annie" and who is now a recording artist with Sony's Epic Records. In an interview in the magazine, the recording artist related an incident of alleged harassment involving Hudson."

The artist he is referring to in that article is Danielle Brisebois.

There is also mention of this in a book published by Begnery Publishing and written by Peter Schweizer called "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed", ISBN: 0895263874 The reference is on page 20.

The excerpt follows:

"....But from the start, his association with the company caused problems. Female employees repeatedly complained of sexual harassment; they alleged that he made lewd comments and pressured them into dates.

As complaints piled up, Disney executives did nothing, except to ask that he visit a counselor. Two of the women who complained about his behavior were transferred to other jobs.

Disney's attempts to conceal the problem failed when singer Danielle Brisebois went public with exactly what Hudson had done to her when she was only 17 years old and still a minor. "I played him a song of mine," she told Seconds magazine. "While I'm playing him my tape, I look up and he's masturbating." Brisebois says she told him to stop, but Hudson responded with an anatomical reference. She fled the studio in disgust.

Stung by the public embarrassment, Disney let Hudson go in March of 1995..."

I have re-removed that text from the article for the following reasons:

I read the entire section, and the thing that bothers me is that it was published in the LA Times (supposedly). However, I did a fairly lengthy search for that article, and searched for any articles with his name connected to Danielle's name, searched for articles relating to Disney and him, and came up empty. What bugs me is that someone added that section without citing any sources, so yes I see your point and I believe it is valid. However, IF someone does manage to find the article, prove it, or cite it from a reputable source, then there is no argument that it will be put on the page if someone decided to.

Second, I received a request to remove it from someone who said they are family, and while we cannot prove that, Wikipedia's policy is to give "good faith", and I believe it is genuine after discussing the issue with the poster.

Until that section can be verified, and cited with references, it should (in my opinion) not be part of the article, as it is defamatory. Please feel free to discuss the issue here, but please do not add that section back without having verifiable sources. Thank you! :) ^Ariel♥Gold 10:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you can validate and cite the source of the information, it should remain out of the article, according to

If this continues, it will be taken to the Arbitration committee. Thank you. ^Ariel♥Gold 06:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to the

Get a copy of the book and contact the back issues dept of the LA Times. All the original sources are there. This cannot be hidden as defamatory - one's sacking from a job is hardly of that nature. But a story printed in a book and in a newspaper that goes unchallenged by the plaintiff - who could have brought legal action - and didn't, shows that this story has substance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canderel (talk • contribs)

Since I do not have a stake in this, and my neutral view has been ignored by both sides, so I've requested a third party to review this issue to help. I would ask that you respect any changes they make, and realize this is not a forum for a crusade, but a fact based encyclopedia. Thank you sincerely, ^Ariel♥Gold 19:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC) :)[reply]

Hmm. I was asked to come in and take a look at this as a third opinion. And my opinion is this: The

WP:BLP, Wikipedia's policy on being careful with the biographies of living persons. I think it's worth mentioning that he was fired, but since it doesn't seem to have really been covered anywhere else of note besides the L.A. Times article, I don't think it should be a major part of the Wikipedia article. A simple one-paragraph "controversy" section seems plenty. Though if anyone can produce other sources which prove or disprove the allegations, we can definitely expand that section. --Elonka 19:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

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