Talk:Monty Hall

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In Roleplaying, the term "Monty Haul" (clearly a reference to the game show host) has been used for some time to describe campaigns where the game master rewards players with successively larger hordes of magic and wealth, leading to an escalating spiral of powerful characters until there is nothing in the game that holds any challenge. The earliest reference I can find is Dragon #14 (May 1978), where

James M. Ward

(game designer) started a series of articles called "The Adventures of Monty Haul". He mentions:

[The staff of TSR] all have a feeling of disdain for any judge, referee, or starship master they can call a "Monty Haul" type judge.

In Dragon #42 (October 1980) Gary Gygax writes:

Too often DMs complain that monsters are too weak, spells and magic too strong, or players too clever. What is actually stated in most such cases is that the DM is a Dungeon Milquetoast rather than Master. Players plan and cooperate, so naturally they tend to utilize all their strengths and abilities collectively, thus defeating monsters and DM alike. The classic, unthinking reaction of DMs so abused is to create the "Monty Haul" campaign--"I really wanted my players to walk all over everything, even me!"--or the "Killer Kampaign" game--"It's them or me, and none of those bastards will survive to tell the tale!"

BigBoote66 (talk) 22:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Right, recommend putting this in the article in a new 'Cultural References' section. It should note that the misspelling of Hall as 'Haul' is intentional. 2.28.169.31 (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article says that "Hall himself gave an explanation .. in an interview .. in 1991". He also provided an explanation in 1975 which can be found in American Statistician 29(3): 134 (August 1975), in response to American Statistician 29(1): 67 (February 1975). John Vandenberg ^(chat) 23:27, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't there also some one called Monty Hall who is a British marine biologist, who did "Monty Hall's Great Escape" and "Monty Hall's Great Hebridean Escape"? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:33, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is - he is currently (as of August 2011) doing "Monty Hall's Irish Escape". This article should have a tag saying "Not to be confused with the marine biologist Monty Hall". ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NO to both the above comments: the person in question is called Monty Halls. Quis separabit? 17:16, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One can find out more about the marine biologist (specifically, his series on Ireland) on http://www.discoverireland.com/gb/campaigns/monty-halls-great-irish-escape/?WT.mc_id=gb_ga_110811_brand_monty_halls_great_escape&WT.srch=1 ^{[dead link]}

ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:27, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unless the other Monty Hall has an article here, there's probably no reason to have a note about him.  Frank  |  talk  01:55, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see that the person I was thinking of is actually called "Monty Halls", and has an article here - see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Halls%27_Great_Escape. I still think that the name is similar enough for a disambiguation, or at least, a "Not to be confused with" tag. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:23, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The real issue is what the MHP is. The answer given by MvS is incorrect for the problem as she stated it, and it is incorrect for the problem as Monty Hall interpreted it.

Now, Extended problem description does ask a question with particulars not given by MvS that cause the answer to be that given by MvS, but Monty Hall challenged MvS and demonstrated the fact that she was making unstated assumptions.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 16:37, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to note that their is a claim here that Monty Hall is a singer, yet their is no reference to any singing engagements or musical credits. While any such information might be lackluster, some expansion of detail should be included to support the claim. -- 71.234.219.9 (talk) 09:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Monty Hall's wife Marilyn Plottel is neither his "distant cousin" nor any other blood relative. The connection supposedly arises from the fact that Monty's mother Rose is first cousin to Norman Shnier, and Norman Shnier is second cousin to Marily Plottel. Trouble is, Norman is related to Rose thru his father and to Marilyn thru his mother. So there is no blood relationship at all between Monty and Marilyn. 2601:18E:C501:5FE2:7ACA:39FF:FEB2:EFCB (talk) 00:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Four years later...and I see you no longer call Marilyn Plottell Monty's "distant cousin." The truth at last...bravo! 71.162.113.226 (talk) 16:42, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In the main article, there is a claim that Hall was denied admission to medical school due to secret quotas promoting Mormon students. The citation used [7] is a Canadian Press article written soon after Hall's death, and posted on the CBC website. The CBC article makes no mention of Mormon students. It actually says, "At the time, there was a secret quota system in place designed to severely restrict access to medical school for Jewish students. It ended shortly after Hall gave up on his dream". There ought to be a double citation here, or further information explaining the connection to Mormon students. ^[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.203.36 (talk) 15:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Hall's wife Marilyn Plottel was not his "distant cousin"…the reference you give is her obit and it says nothing about cousins. According to Hall, he was introduced to her by a "mutual cousin" Norman Shnier, who told him he had “another cousin on the other side of family, not related to you…" Here's the reference: https://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/09/marilyn-hall-monty-wife-cause-of-death-cousin-dead-bio-lets-make-a-deal-host/ 108.20.114.62 (talk) 19:55, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With this edit, Editor Gerhardvalentin reverted my edit leaving the edit summary important refs. It may very well be that the two references are important but my edit did not break anything so the revert was unnecessary.

{{cite journal}} and all other cs1|2 templates automatically create 'CITEREF' anchor IDs from one of the name lists (contributor, author, editor in that order) and the year portion of the publication date. The reverted form of this template has |ref=CITEREFSelvin1975a. From that, the template creates:

'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000023-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFSelvin1975a" class="citation journal cs1">Selvin, Steve (February 1975a). "A problem in probability (letter to the editor)". ''American Statistician''. <b>29</b> (1): 67. [[JSTOR (identifier)|JSTOR]]&nbsp;[https://www.jstor.org/stable/2683689 2683689].</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=American+Statistician&rft.atitle=A+problem+in+probability+%28letter+to+the+editor%29&rft.volume=29&rft.issue=1&rft.pages=67&rft.date=1975-02&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F2683689%23id-name%3DJSTOR&rft.aulast=Selvin&rft.aufirst=Steve&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMonty+Hall" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{[[Template:cite journal|cite journal]]}}</code>: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default ([[:Category:CS1 maint: ref duplicates default|link]])</span>

The important part of that is this bit which holds the actual CITEREF anchor ID:

<cite id="CITEREFSelvin1975a"

The same {{cite journal}} template from my edit, without |ref=, produces the same anchor ID:

'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000027-QINU`"'<cite id="CITEREFSelvin1975a" class="citation journal cs1">Selvin, Steve (February 1975a). "A problem in probability (letter to the editor)". ''American Statistician''. <b>29</b> (1): 67. [[JSTOR (identifier)|JSTOR]]&nbsp;[https://www.jstor.org/stable/2683689 2683689].</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=American+Statistician&rft.atitle=A+problem+in+probability+%28letter+to+the+editor%29&rft.volume=29&rft.issue=1&rft.pages=67&rft.date=1975-02&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F2683689%23id-name%3DJSTOR&rft.aulast=Selvin&rft.aufirst=Steve&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMonty+Hall" class="Z3988"></span>

Because they are the same, my edit was not wrong, did not break anything, and removed this article from Category:CS1 maint: ref duplicates default.

I shall revert Editor Gerhardvalentin's revert and at the same time also fix the vos Savant templates. During the time that I was running my awb script I discovered a bug in Module:Citation/CS1 (the engine that does the work for the cs1|2 templates) so those two templates do not correctly contribute this article to Category:CS1 maint: ref duplicates default. Details about the bug are discribed at Help talk:Citation Style 1 § ref-duplicates-default detector flaw.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:34, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. And yeah, I deleted the second vos Savant citation because it was essentially a duplicate of the first. And, because it was citing two disparate items, vos Savant's website and Parade, I changed the first to {{cite web}}.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:50, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]