Talk:Nicol David/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
Source: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Starting review, per off-wiki chats on improvements; in progress.

14 March comments

NPOV/Tone issues

I have changed most of the career details to past-tense, per discussions.

I am now concerned that some parts are not conforming to a

neutral point-of-view
. To try and explain, I will show some examples below, from "2000–2004: Early professional career";

---

Nicol joined WISPA and turned professional in 2000; she quickly[neutrality is disputed] won her first WISPA tour title.

[...]

In 2001, Nicol, who has played under Dunlop Sport sponsorship for most of her junior career and burgeoning[neutrality is disputed] WISPA career, signed a two-year deal to play with Head rackets with major[neutrality is disputed] local conglomerate Mulpha Sports. In July, Nicol won the World Junior title for a second time. She earned her second title by easily[neutrality is disputed] beating Omneya Abdel Kawy in just 17 minutes with a score of 9–2, 9–4 and 9–2 in the final.

---

I hope that the above illustrates the problems. Perhaps you could work through the article, trying to remove non-neutral wording; if necessary, I can highlight all of the specific problem areas, but I thought at first, if I explained the problem, you might be able to work on the neutrality prior to my re-checking.

I will continue to review other aspects of the article in the meantime.  Chzz  ►  23:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Done but need some rechecking Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Continuation of review

(moved down from above, as only remaining outstanding comment)

  • "WISPA awards", the subscript (2) (3) etc. is confusing. I assume it means 'second year running' or something; I suggest writing it out.
How should I write it out? Can you provide example? (2) means she wins it (the award) for the 2nd time, (3) for third time and so on. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 11:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking, at the time, of;
  • 2005
    WISPA Awards
    : Player of the Year
  • 2006 WISPA Awards: Player of the Year (second consecutive year)
  • 2007 WISPA Awards: Player of the Year (third consecutive year)

...etc.

However, having looked again, I really don't think that it is necessary at all. It is obviously five years in a row, so I see no need for the extra in brackets. Also, thinking more, perhaps the repetition is entirely unnecessary. Do we need to separate 'WISPA' and 'other awards' at all? Could it not be written in prose, rather than bullets - for example;

Nicole has obtained the

WISPA Awards
Player of the Year on five consecutive occasions, from 2005 until 2009.

...and then combining it into 'other awards', possibly re-titled just 'awards'?  Chzz  ►  00:50, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Added some text about WISPA awards on the "Awards and recognition" section; added succession box on the award at the bottom of the page. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Because of her achievement and popularity, the former Prime Minister of Malaysia Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, a fellow Penangite, once quipped that David is "now more famous than me".[17][18][19]" - there is no need for 3 references here; all of the references support the quotation; you only need one of them. However, none of them state that he said it ""Because of her achievement and popularity" - this is non-neutral, and should be removed. Also, none of the references state that Abdullah is from Penang (as far as I can see) - so this fact is unreferenced. (Note,this problem occurs in both the lede, and "Awards and recognition")
 Done Added references on Tun Abdullah being a Penagite. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notes from off-wiki discussion, 16 March 2010

Some of these issues may have been resolved already - if so, please mark them off.

  • Web references need the author, publisher, publishing date and access date. (GA criteria). This one ...the ref doesn't have the date, or the author - and they are on the page. Others need checking
 Done for [1], others are still  On hold since I would not be here for a few days. In the meantime it would be great if someone can help to do some for me. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the refs have the date in incorrect format, e.g. "# ^ "Nicol David". Ekerjaya.com. December 26, 2007. " - all should be consistent
no No action I've checked the references and I think there's nothing wrong with the date being in bracket or not. The date will automatically be in bracket if there is/are author/s. I don't know, maybe you should ask someone to tweak the {{cite}} template? Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (the equivalent to O-levels)" - O-levels don't exist any more; they were replaced by GCSE's a few years ago. I expect this could probably be changed to GCSE
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "training at the Bukit Dumbar Squash Centre," - in that, "Squash Centre" links to the article on Squash; I'm not sure that's correct. If you want to link to Squash, then the Wikilink should just be the word "Squash" - or maybe there is a better link to squash centres
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In "Junior years", "British Junior Open" is linked more than once
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cassie Jackman" is linked twice in (2000-2004)
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please remove any links to countries in the body - it's overlinking. There's Germany, Australia, Brazil... probably others. I don't see they add any useful link, really - unless you disagree. E.g. "when she beat Australia's Natalie Grinham" - I don't see the benefit in linking to "Australia"
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 2005/6,
    WISPA Awards
    - is that right? Did the naming change, or something?
 Fixed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re. rivalry; the last sentance;"The World Open 2006 final between Nicol and Natalie is dubbed to be one of the greatest in the Women's World Open history" - that should be changed to a direct quotation, in quotes - The World Open 2006 final between Nicol and Natalie was said to be "one of the greatest in the Women's World Open history". (I also changed 'is' to 'was' (tense), and changed 'dubbed' to 'said' (more formal))
 On hold Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • World Open Finals - table doesn't have any references?
 Possible I can't see any references on tennis GA biographies as well but will possibly add references to it anyway. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:39, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re. note a, Natalie Grinham switched allegiance to the Netherlands from March 2008 onwards. - do you have a reference for that? (You can add a ref to a note)
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4.2 WISPA Tour Finals (Runner-Up) (13), and 4.3.1 Finals: 4 (4 titles, 0 runner-up) - caps needs to be consistent - Runner-Up or runner-up? I think the lower-case is better
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At a very young age, she was invited to carry the Olympic torch for Malaysia during the build up to the Athens Olympics in 2004[13][14] and being appointed as UNDP National Goodwill Ambassador for Malaysia.[15]" - all of this is in the lede, but not in the body
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Life

Nicol is the Chindian daughter of Ann Marie David, a retired Malaysian Chinese school teacher, and Desmond David, a Malaysian Indian engineer,[19] who is also a former state athlete and footballer.[18][20]

  • Chindian/Malaysian Chinese/Malaysian Indian - None of the three references (as far as I can see) give the ethnicity of either Nicol or her parents.
 Done Removed Chindian. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Star athlete" is non-neutral, and I cannot see it in the references - only that the PM mentioned he was a "former Penang athlete and state footballer".
It's "state athlete" and not "star athlete" and I don't see "state athlete" as non-neutral. Well, Penang is a state in Malaysia, and I think the usage of "state athlete" in this case is acceptable. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

She has two sisters, Lianne Marie and Cheryl Therese,[21]

  • The source does not appear to give their middle names; it only says, "Lianne and Cheryl".
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a youngster, Nicol enjoyed reading,

  • I cannot see that information in the reference
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref. 23 seems to be incorrectly formatted; Sivabalan, S. (July 22, 2007). [Honour for Nicol "Honour for Nicol"]. The Star. Semenyih: The Star. Honour for Nicol. Retrieved March 15, 2010. - apart from fixing the format, I would like to know a) if this reference is available online, and b) if it definitely does cover all of the facts in the sentence.
 Fixed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Will be done  Later since I won't be active on wiki for a few days. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

General comment re. referencing

The section "Awards and recognition" begins with this paragraph;

On June 7, 2008, Nicol David was honoured with the Order of Merit (Darjah Bakti) or D.B. in conjunction with the birthday of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong Tuanku Mizan Zainal Abidin. She was the first recipient of the award which was established on June 26, 1975. The award is limited to 10 recipients who have made significant contributions in the arts, sciences and the humanities.[24][25]

In this paragraph, there are three sentences, and many facts - but there are only two references at the end of the paragraph. This makes it difficult to see which sources support which facts. For the article to be classed as a 'good article', I have to ensure that it is 'factually accurate'. To do so, I need to check which parts are referenced from which source. As shown in the comments for the previous section, currently there are statements of fact that lack sources.

 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 13:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore, please could you carefully check through the article, and ensure that the referencing is valid.

I am also concerned that some of the sources may not be

reliable sources. For example, squashweb.com here does not look like a "reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" - perhaps these are acceptable as trusted RS within the world of squash; I'm not sure. I'm asking on RSN, here
- let's see what they say about that.

 Done Removed references from squashweb.com Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 14:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the meantime, if you could address the other issues, that would be great.

I have not looked in detail at the lede section at this stage, simply because, as a summary of the whole article, I like to address the lede last.

Also, I have not yet worked on improvements to the grammar, because I want to know that the information is well sourced first.

Best,  Chzz  ►  04:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 On hold I need to put this on hold for a while. Will start working on it within a week time. Any help would be most welcome. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 09:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No problem; please let me know when to come back to it; thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 14:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

  • I'm still not sure if there is a source for "Ann Marie David, a retired Malaysian Chinese" - I see her named as the mother, but which reference gives her ethnicity? (Maybe I'm just missing it) - Ref. 20 says 'school teacher' but nothing about race
From ref no. 19? "about the world number one squash player who is also half-Chinese." Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Accepted, thanks

 Done

  • I suggest removing the wikilink engineer - I don't think it is relevent enough to the article; do you agree?
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(rest of this section looks OK, but could do with improvement to the prose; I can do that, perhaps, once that last fact is sorted out)

Awards and recognition

  • I changed Yang di-Pertuan Agong
    Tun Abdul Rahman Abbas
     - because the former was a bit much to read, for English-speakers; I hope this is OK?
Changed back to Yang di-Pertua Negeri since Tun Abbas is only the head of the Penang state not the whole country. Agong is for the head of country. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It says that she is "the youngest person ever to be conferred Datukship in Malaysia" but the source 25 says she is the youngest in "the state" - is that the same thing? (ie by 'state' do they mean 'Malaysia', or is it a region)
 Fixed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pre–2000: Junior years

  • Should we remove the wikilink to 'squash' there? Seems a bit odd, and it's currently on the 2nd use of the word in that section, not the first. I think it should probably go; by this stage, you'd think that the reader whold know what squash is?
  •  Chzz  ►  05:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 12:24, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break inexplicably entitled Sausages

  • Re. in conjunction with the birthday of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong Tuanku Mizan Zainal Abidin - this title/name thing; I accept you changing it back, however, it is a really long mouthful of foreign words - that's why I thought the title would be better, and got it from the article,
    Yang di-Pertuan Agong
    - which may well be wrong, but...would it be possible to replace the "Yang di-Pertuan Agong" part with some English title/honorific? It would make it easier to read.
 Done "Yang di-Pertuan Agong
Tun Abdul Rahman Abbas." Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 11:45, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Some scores are coded as e.g. 9–5 and others as 9–2. These are not dsiplayed quite the same, so please change it to be consistent; I think that the best option is to use the ndash
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2003 proved to be a vital year" - non-neutral, opinion - please rephrase this
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Caption on picture, "Nicol Ann David in action." - could this be more descriptive please? More information?
Couldn't get any additional description from the image, so I removed it Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2005-6, "After winning the British Open and World Open within two months against the odds, she clinched" (1) 'against the odds' - is this a fact, can it be verified? (2) 'clinched' is not an appropriate, neutral term
 Done Rephrased Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2008 was the perfect WISPA year for Nicol" - not neutral
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an unexpected bronze" - why was it unexpected, who didn't expect it?
 Done Rephrased Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2009, 21 days after winning the Texas Open... - don't start a sentence with a number; please rephrase in some way to avoid it
 Done Change to "twenty one". Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nicol unexpectedly ended the year on a low NPOV
Changed to "Nicol ended the year on a low". Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 20:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rivalry, They have met 30 times during their careers, with Nicol leading their overall head-to-head series 23–7. - consider recentism; this figure will quickly be out of date. Please rephrase to make it clear that "As of 2010" or whatever.
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last meeting between the two - as above
 Done Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you relocate the image File:Nicol Ann David cropped .jpg, thus allowing the main table for WISPA to be wider (reducing the whitespace below the pic, and reducing the number of lines the table requires through word-wrap)
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In that table, what does the first column 'No.' refer to? It seems to be pointless
To indicate the number of title; other GA article eg
Juan Martin del Potro and Leander Paes also did that. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
  • In the last table, on my display at least, there is no vertical bar between the years 1998 1999, 2000 2001, and 2002 2003. Also, there is no horizontal bar directly below WISPA World Tour Tournaments (all the way across), nor at the bottom of the table.
Can you elaborate further? I cant understand it. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 20:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Screendump here  Chzz  ►  08:43, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Removed Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Chzz  ►  09:22, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Checklist

1. Well-written:

  • (a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct
    • After edits to past-tense, and other work on the grammar, I think it generally reads well now. Scope for future improvement to prose, but points are clear, spelling and grammar checked.
  • (b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation.
    • Checked and edited for MOS; good clear lede, logical layout, jargon only where appropriate and explained, no peacock words etc. Tables seem appropriate to the topic.

2. Factually accurate and verifiable:

  • (a) it provides references to all sources of information, and at minimum contains a section dedicated to the attribution of those sources in accordance with the guide to layout;
    • Refs all check out; citations include sufficient details and are consistent.
  • (b) at minimum, it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons
    • Well referenced with RS. Balanced and neutral, multiple sources

(c) it contains no original research.

  • Does not contain OR

3. Broad in its coverage:

  • (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;
    • Early life and achievements are treated with reasonable
      balance
      ; does not overly concentrate on recent areas. Seems to have comprehensive outline of career and achievements
  • (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
    • Good level of detail

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.

  • Several edits during the GA process have corrected problems with non-neutral phrasing; now appears to present facts in appropriate tone

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day-to-day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

  • Check; no edit-warring

6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:

  • (a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content
    • No fair-use images used; all images have appropriate licencing
  • (b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
    • All in sensible places and appropriate captions

This article has passed the GA review process, and I will promote it to GA status --  Chzz  ►  13:06, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nicol_David/GA1&oldid=1136251390"