Talk:Pazhassi Raja

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Editors have expertise in the area of Kerala History to be consulted for reversing edits affected after september 15th --117.206.9.113 (talk) 15:50, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

recent editors confused after seeing the film "pazhassiraja" got confussion on historical facts and vandalised this pages. required an urgent review. --SdRm 16:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The only reliable reference to Pazhassi Raja available:

http://www.pazhassirajacollege.com/manage.html

Pazhassi Raja College, Pulpally, Wayanad, in erstwhile Malabar District of Kerala, India.

The college is managed by the Syro MALANKARA Catholic church, first established in 1932, in Thiruvalla, of Kottayam District of erstwhile Travancore State in South Kerala.

(As an important aside it must be mentioned that this church formed in 1932, claims Kerala used to be known as MALANKARA, NOT Malabar as it is known to the rest of Malayalis. So much for credibility of claims! But sheer force of propaganda they have pushed the idea of Malankara through. At least half a million members of their church believe that Kerala used to be known as Malankara, and they are not concerned the rest of Kerala doesn't agree. Now the same thing is being tried with this non existent Kottayam in North Kerala and the fiction about Pazhassi Raja. The most influential Christian missionaries who worked in Kannur, Tellicherry, were from the Swiss Basel Mission, a mission of the Lutheran Church. The most famous person is a German by the name Rev Dr Hermann Gundert. Rev Gundert translated the Bible into Malayalam and compiled the English-Malayalam dictionary. Many Roman Catholics in Kannur and other places in Malabar District decided to join the schismatic Jacobite church under the influence of German Lutherans, who preached against the Roman Catholic church.)

There has never been a Kottayam in Malabar District of North Kerala. No history books record a Kottayam in North Kerala. The history books record only Zamorins of Calicut as the important rulers of North Kerala. Other than that there were only small feudal holdings in north and most of central Kerala. The kingdom of Cochin in central Kerala was small. Haider Ali and his son Tippu Sultan started to annexe North Kerala in 1766 and by 1792 had annexed all of North Kerala and parts of central Kerala (Palakkad). The Hindu rulers sought the help of British to oust Tippu Sultan. Hence the areas once annexed by Tippu Sultan came under direct British rule in 1795. Malabar District of North Kerala had ONE British District Collector during British Raj. The only historically recorded rebellion against British in Malabar District took place in 1921. It is known as Moplah (Mappilah) Rebellion, the rebellion by Malayali Muslims. It was crushed by the British with their army, which had Hindu soldiers. To vilify the Kerala Muslims, the rebellion against British rule is portrayed as Muslim-Hindu riot, all because the British army had Hindu soldiers. Remember Hindu rulers had sought the help of British to oust Tippu Sultan of Mysore, a Muslim ruler?

In South Kerala, starting from the year 1749, the king of Travancore, Marthanda Varma, began to expand his kingdom northwards. He annexed Thekkumkur, Munjanad and united it to form Kottayam revenue district of Travancore kingdom in 1754. Later he added Devikulam to Kottayam, which made it bigger. Thekkumkur had been an insignificant small feudality. During British Raj which began in 1795, the kingdom of Travancore became the Princely State of Travancore. Two revenue divisions were formed - Upper Travancore, to which Kottayam belonged, and lower Travancore. There was a British Resident stationed in Travancore, who collected the revenue from the king of Travancore for the British Raj. It is common knowledge that Princely states had to pay money to the British for services rendered in protection of the kingdom. Starting in 1806, at the suggestion of the British Resident, the king of Travancore permitted British missionaries to work in his kingdom. CMS worked in upper Travancore, primarily in Kottayam (spelled Cottayam in CMS writings) and LMS worked in lower Travancore. They set up English schools and colleges (CMS College Kottayam 1817) and set up the first press in Kottayam (1812). Rubber was planted in Kottayam around 1904. This led to immense wealth in no time. The Dutch had planted tea before the arrival of the British.

The above is recorded history.

The claim that a Kottayam Royal Family existed is fiction, for Kottayam in the south was formed by uniting Thekkumkur and Munjanad and only as a revenue district of Travancore kingdom in 1754. There was no Kottayam in North Kerala at any time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieWahrheitBitte (talk • contribs) 02:46, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dear sir, You did not find any better source because you did not want to! How about starting with these two- http://malabardays.blogspot.com/ and http://www.archive.org/details/wynaditspeoplest00goparich. I agree that the article is very badly written! Saraths (talk) 23:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article is having serious defects. For one thing, the Kottayam connected to the so-mentioned Pazhassi Raja has nothing to do with the Kottayam of South Kerala. This is a common mistake borne by most people of Kerala, and by the students of schools in Kerala.

Actually the Kottayam connected to this person is a minute village near to Tellicherry (Thalashery). As to his being a great king and his popularity connected to a freedom struggle that he is supposed to have conducted against the British is mainly connected, I think (but not sure) to a Black & White film of the yesteryears, acted (I think) by Prem Nazir. The film producers were naturally seeking stories, and naturally they must have come across this theme. {Like the Vadakkan Pattukal stories got statewide fame through the films).

As to his being a king and all such thing is really doubtful, and if any serious interest in there in this regard, his current descendants and family members need to be traced. I think most probably he would only one of the feudal landlords, who in those days did don such titles as thamburan, raja, adhikari etc.

Again, the usage of such terms as commanders etc. can give a false understanding, for I think in those times, the places mentioned in connection to him were mostly sparsely populated areas. Then again the mention of his killing British soldiers is also doubtful; I think it was native (of Malabar) police constables that he killed. I am not sure about this, but then I remember reading thus many years ago in a Malayalam weekly.

And as to his revolting against the British, could have more to the introduction of the police machinery, so that traders were not looted, teased and tormented by the henchmen of various janmis (in the guise of extracting tax ‘karam’) as their wares moved on bullock carts and horse carts to the trading centers and markets.

As a person having some information on British colonial history, I feel that that the incident mentioned is not a great event, and could possibly be just a police action against a truculent land lord.

As a person knowing the places mentioned, including Panamaram, in a cursory manner, I do not think that in those times, he was a great ruler or any such thing. And to his being a liberator and such claims, I think, it was the British education in Tellichery that really gave support to a small section of the suppressed classes there. It was Brennen college and the English schools there that gave the lower classes a chance to escape the suppression inflicted on them by both the thamburan class as well as their own caste superiors and family karanavars (terrible matriarchal family system). But then, this could also have been a reason of friction between the landlord and the British, for it was more less a terrible situation of the servant class getting English education.

It is really funny to see Mammooty acting as Pazhassir Raja, when he had once acted as Ponthan Maada, wherein he exists as a member of the thoroughly suppressed class of the local janmi, to the extend that even his wife is dominated by the janmi.

I am keeping a copy of this post of mine [here] [1]as usually my posts get deleted from Wikipedia fast. --Ved from Victoria Institutions (talk) 08:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pazhassi Raja was more than a feudal, he was a Kshatriya and feudals were Nairs and Nambiars.The area he ruled was very small to call him a king.He is slightly over rated.On him and his forces killing British soldiers, yes he did kill in multiple encounters. Many books on him state this fact Nikhilnarayanan (talk) 18:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC) Nikhil[reply]

Could those who complain about the article's content please stop complaining or edit-warring, and start looking for sources and references. That would be more constructive, regardless of the topic. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 09:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The only historically recorded armed struggle against the British was by Malabar Muslims of North Kerala. It happened in 1921 and is known as Mopillah Rebellion (Mappillah the term for Malayali Muslims). The rebellion was crushed by the British army, manned by Hindu soldiers. It is common knowledge that British armies in India had mostly locals, although all officers were British. Read reliable primary historical records, not retrospective fiction written in recent years by people who are trying to invent history for political ends. There is a new craving for militant heroes in India today, encouraged by a militant ideal propagated by a certain group of Hindus, who are feverishly selling the indoctrination all over India. Kerala seems to have caught that bug now. Too bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieWahrheitBitte (talk • contribs) 07:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I beg to slightly differ about the Mappilah Lahila. It would not be correct to say that it was a rebellion against the British rule. For one thing, British rule was more or less concentrated in Madras, even though the whole of Malabar was a district under the Madras Presidency. What really could have sparked the Mappillah Lahala (which was actually a brutal fight between the Muslim lower classes and the feudals Hindu castes)could have been the intermittent religious conversion of the Thiyya caste members to that of Islam. This they most probably did to escape the striffling social status they had under their own heriditary caste system. As to Pazhazhiraja's actual place of rule, if at all he did rule any place may not have extended beyond one or two square kilometers. --Ved from Victoria Institutions (talk) 12:06, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1.I hope one's aware of the many Kathakali Themes (Aattakatha) composed by Kottayam Thampuran.Well, this is the very same Kottayam of Malabar that gave birth to the legendary king of Pazhassi who gave the British East India Company a run for their money with his fierce assertion of independence, matched by organising skills.All those wagging their tounges here about upper class-lower class stuff should not forget that Kerala Varma Pazhassi Raja had the whole hearted support of the Kurichya tribes.

2.Mammuty's an actor. So there's nothing wrong when he portrays Pazhassi Raja with as great a zeal as he would with 'Pontanmada'. I do not understand why one fails to see this simple truth about acting! 81.135.42.9 (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)Rajan[reply]

Please rollback to this version--Abhishek Jacob (talk) 16:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I support a roll back. Saraths (talk) 23:11, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ZAMORINS OF CALICUT, ALI RAJA AND KOLATHIRIS OF KANNUR (CANNANORE, AND SEVERAL SMALL FEUDAL LORDS NONE OF WHOM WAS CALLED PAZHASSI RAJA AND NO KOTTAYAM OR KOTTAYAM ROYAL FAMILY - THAT IS REAL HISTORY OF NORTH KERALA AKA MALABAR DISTRICT OF BRITISH RAJ

Posted by DieWahrheitBitte, 22 November 2009

We live now in the age of formidable power of propaganda. Like Coca Cola being marketed as health drink all over the world, fiction gets propagated as history by sheer force of propaganda and marketing. It is disgusting.

There never was a kingdom of Kottayam anywhere in Kerala (known as Malabar Coast). The main rulers, apart from feudal lords, in North Kerala were the Zamorins of Calicut, the extremely small principality of Ali Raja and Kolathiris of Kannur (Cannonore).

Thanks to makers of films we are now being treated like idiots of the first order and introduced to a so called Pazhassi Raja of the "Kottayam Royal Family. " Sure the propagandists have read history and cobbled together all kinds of information, only the history belongs to different peoples.

People from erstwhile upper Travancore seems to have this obsession with theories of migration. Without that theory they have no history of their own. Just that they did business with Portuguese, Dutch and British. Coffee, tea and rubber, CMS press and CMS college....

The small principalities were Thekkumkur, Berkenkoor, Devikulam etc.

This article relies very heavily on William Logan's writings. Can someone please explain to me why such an old source, authored by someone of dubious standing, should not be removed? Surely there are more modern sources? - Sitush (talk) 18:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First person to write extensively about Pazhassi Raja is William Logan, Collector of Malabar. Almost all subsequent writings on Pazhassi Raja by historians have heavily borrowed from William Logan. I can bring many modern sources here, but what use will it be if all of that is cut copy paste of William Logan? Also Logan is not a dubious person - his Malabar Manual is referred to even this day by post graduate students and research scholars. How come such author of such a source become dubious? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.70.121 (talk) 15:51, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please do bring those more recent sources here. They are exactly what this article requires & I am pleased to read that they exist. - Sitush (talk) 19:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have just removed a large addition of two sources in the article. One was a blogspot source and has no reliability at all; the other was this article from The Hindu. The article seems to be analysing primary sources held in a local archive but I have no idea whether its author - P. Anima - is suitably qualified to make such an analysis. Is the writer an academic historian, a journalist, a commentator or what? - Sitush (talk) 12:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And I have now just removed this, sorry. I am unsure about the reliability of some of those new sources but of more concern is that no page numbers are given for a multitude of citations. It is impossible for the reader to establish what is going on without more information. Feel free to restore the information but, please, do so only if you can provide complete citations. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 11:51, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Historian A Sreedhara Menon's book on Kerala history has been added to citation with page numbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.68.10 (talk) 15:00, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Historian Dr KKN Kurup's second book on Pazhassi Raja written in 2008 is cited with page numbers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.68.10 (talk) 15:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.174.100 (talk) [reply]

Historian Rajayyan's book South Indian Rebellion has been added to citation with page numbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.68.10 (talk) 1:30, 16 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.28.245.136 (talk)

A conclusion titled "Assessment" has been added. Some few additional material and citations also added - 117.216.68.10 (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.208.229.50 (talk) [reply]

A lot of citation errors were introduced recently. I've fixed most of them but cannot resolve those that take the form "Kurup ()" because the original contributor did not specify which of Kurup's books they were citing. Can anyone enlighten us? - Sitush (talk) 08:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the year for Kurup's book. It is 1980.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.68.10 (talk) 13:38, 30 April 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.203.65.26 (talk) [reply]

SAMPLE

QUOTE: This force was a fore-runner of the Kolkar,[45] who became infamous for their sycophancy to British and cruelty to resisters and people END OF QUOTE

The powerful truth is that the common people of the Subcontinent supported the English rule. If they are the traitors, then who might be the patriots of the Subcontinent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.97.14.167 (talk) 09:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

People became "Patriots" when it is convenient for them. Velu Thampi sought asylum with the British Resident twice when the Travancore army was after him. He turned against the resident only when he realised that he was going to be removed. Pazhassi Raja was supported by the British during his fight with Tipu and he initially fought against his uncle and later the British who supported his uncle. The Attingal rebellion was not against the policies of the EIC factor of Anchuthengu. The local lords had no problems with the EIC. They resented the fact that the presents to the Rani of Attingal were not going via them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:4691:A900:DDDA:D1BD:17C0:B866 (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The image of the Raja is dated: 1898. And the painter lived 1848 - 1906. However, the Raja died in 1805. So the image cannot be authentic. Simply an image.

Moreover the article itself might need some improvement. It simply has the feel of a local academic textbook writing.

All the points of pazhssiraja 103.169.215.53 (talk) 13:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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