Talk:Riyaz Naikoo

This article was nominated for deletion on February 23, 2020. The result of the discussion was delete.

A fact from Riyaz Naikoo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 June 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that a mathematics teacher became one of Kashmir's most hunted militants? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Riyaz Naikoo.

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Fellow editors, and especially

You mean changing "terrorist organisation" to "militant organisation"? The justification he gives, viz., that it is how it is described on the

WP:TERRORIST. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 07:40, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 13:57, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 14:01, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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Why don't we call it a "rebel group" [1] or "insurgent organisation" or something? Why does everything have to be a "terrorist" organisation? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:36, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You bring a good point. I am fine with "rebel group" as well. But, I think "militant rebel group" would be much better? -

talk) 00:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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I will reply to this. Sorry for the delay.

talk) 12:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 12:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 13:42, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 13:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 14:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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talk) 14:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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• Comment - "Mujahid" is not an English word. So we shouldn't use that unless it is absolutely the right description. I am fine with "militant". No objection to "guerrilla group" on NPOV grounds, but it needs to be sourced. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I may call myself a PM. That's not right. We are strict at POV about issues which are controversial. Muslims do not normally regard them so, and so is the case in valley. They are commonly referred to as militants and this is what we should use. For example, see this from

talk) 14:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

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I agree with others. Militant is the term that should be used. Even though the organization has been designated a terrorist organization I think we should refrain from using that descriptor as some parties do not consider them as terrorists and calling them that would be a POV. Amazingcaptain (talk) 16:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3, you have written "Mujahid" is not an English word. The article for Mujahideen says that "The English term jihadists grammatically corresponds to it", so language shouldn't be a problem. Amazingcaptain I can't emphasise more that they call themselves this, we aren't giving them the label/descriptor of jihadists. But ok, since no one seems to be going with this line of thought, even though they call themselves that, sticking to militant seems ok. We are actually back where we began then with this.

As for the "guerrilla group", there are more than enough citations, just as there are more than enough citations for multiple terms related to them:

• Dar, who had founded the Hizbul Mujahideen guerrilla group in 1990 (2009, Hindustan Times)
• The largest Kashmiri guerrilla group, the Hizbul Mujahideen (2011, Hindustan Times)
• Formed in 1989, Hizbul Mujahideen is considered the largest guerrilla organisation active in Indian-administered Kashmir. (2012, aljazeera)
• The social resources of the Jamaat clearly contributed to "the decisive ascendancy of HM as the dominant guerrilla groups in the armed struggle" (2012, Paul Staniland)
• Police Wednesday arrested two overground workers of guerrilla group Hizbul Mujahideen in Jammu and Kashmir. (2015, Business Standard)
• snatched away in a trail of internecine clashes by the pro-Pakistan guerrilla group Hizbul Mujahideen (2020, The Quint)

However it has to be noted that they are a guerrilla group as compared to being a separatist group is mutually independent, just as is the descriptor militant group signifies something else about them. It is therefore now also a decision of which label comes first, second and third:

1. guerrilla group/organisation
2. militant group/organisation
3. separatist group/organisation

There are also certain other descriptors to consider such as "pro-Pakistani", "insurgent", "terrorism" or a combination of these as certain actions by Hizbul may seems terrorist like whereas other militant or guerrilla like - like it says here:

• By 1996, most of the Kashmiri insurgent guerrilla operations were soundly defeated across J&K, clearly confirmed by Kashmiri insurgent tactics switching dramatically from regular direct attacks on the Indian Army to terrorism against the Kashmiri people.
• The types of warfare that are available to Kashmiri insurgent organizations are terrorism, guerrilla war, conventional war, or a combination of these (A thesis presented to the Faculty of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree)

talk) 07:12, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

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I couldn't process everything you wrote. But generally:

Y for "rebel", "guerrilla fighter", "insurgent", "militant", "Islamist", "pro-Pakistan"

N for "terrorist", "mujahid", "freedom fighter"

? for "jihadist"

An easy translation for "mujahid" is "holy warrior". For "jihadist", it is "one who professes to be a holy warrior". So, calling some one a "jihadist" is a third-party way of saying "mujahid".

The trouble with calling HM rebels as "jihadist" is that it is unclear if jihad is their primary motivation. They are essentially separatist fighters who have latched on to a jihadist bandwagon. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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If you add something to the article with a source, you could replace it. Yoninah (talk) 21:40, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]