Talk:Sverdlovsk, Ukraine

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Russia vs Ukraine

ISTM that this is supposed to be an article about Sverdlovsk, Ukraine, 45°29′N 33°56′E. An anonymous user has moved the intro to the end, subheaded it "Sverdlovsk, Ukraine", and put a heading "Sverdlovsk, Russia" at the top, above the "History" section which (I believe) refers to Sverdlovsk, Ukraine - at any rate, it has little in common with the corresponding section at Yekaterinburg.

Any good reason not to revert?

I did revert the user's first attempt to move the intro to the end, but the edit was repeated. I don't think it's vandalism, so I'm reluctant to re-revert without some input from more experienced editors. FJPB 11:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted the anons edits. We should not keep two articles merged together like (Sverdlovsk including section Sverdlovsk (Russia) and Sverdlovsk (Ukraine), but rather let each subject have their own articles. —dima/s-ko/ 20:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless the discussion below, I don't know who is right or wrong, please edit the coordinates for this article so that it is not placed in central Crimea. I've checked on maps and there are certainly no major place named Sverdlovsk there. 87.227.68.18 13:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)Per Nelvig[reply]

im not satisfied with this article becasue it does not say what the land area or surface area of this city is at least it has a population figure—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.244.159.55 (talk) 03:18, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Requested move 3 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. I have created redirects from

Dovzhans'k to this article. Dekimasuよ! 17:23, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

Dovzhansk and the other Wikipedias have kept it as "Sverdlovsk". A unilateral attempt in 2016 to change the name to Dovzhansk in English Wikipedia had been reverted. It may be also noted that a similar proposal at Talk:Kirovsk, Luhansk Oblast#Requested move 12 April 2018 was closed as "no consensus to move".    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:12, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Support. The city of
    Dovzhansʹk has been renamed to, "Dovzhansʹk" since 2016 and that's the official English name going forward. Given that small cities almost never get mentioned in English-language media, it would be wrong to use "usage of "Dovzhansʹk" on Google or the like in order to validate that English usage of this term is prevalent - there's simply no English usage for this city, period (because no English language media ever mention it). Given this, the article should be renamed per the new, post 2016 official name. ps. Be cautious when simply "googling" the old name of the city "Sverdlovsk" - there's a region (state) in Russia with the same name, which will probably cause Google to provide 99.9% of it's searches for that toponym. --Piznajko (talk) 00:03, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Support as a move to the new official name after Decommunization.Miacek (talk) 09:43, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per discussion at
    No such user (talk) 11:51, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Analogous to the general details regarding this matter being discussed in the previously-mentioned RM,
FC Dynamo Kiev (ФК «Динамо-Киев»).    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:56, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on

Talk:Kirovske, Donetsk Oblast which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Requested move 7 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There is consensus that "Ukraine" is sufficient disambiguation, which was the focus of this discussion. There was enough opposition to the alternative,

Dovzhansk that it will not move there at this time. However, there is no prejudice against a subsequent RM proposal should there be enough evidence to back it up (though this discussion and the one above suggest that such a proposal would require significant evidence supporting it). (closed by non-admin page mover) -2pou (talk) 19:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Sverdlovsk, Luhansk Oblast → Sverdlovsk, Ukraine – It's the only one in Ukraine, no need to disambiguate via oblast. HappyWith (talk) 23:07, 6 November 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 2pou (talk) 18:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Move to
WP:WIAN: GNIS[7] gives the name Dovzhansk, alternate names Imeni Sverdlova, Selo Imeni Sverdlova, and Sverdlovsk; Google Maps uses Dovzhansk;[8] and Apple Maps uses the label Dovzhans'k[9]
(but also shows a pin nearby if you search for “Sverdlovsk, Ukraine”).
Anyway, natural disambiguation is preferable to adding a disambiguation tag, per
WP:PLACEDAB, adding weight to the above.  —Michael Z. 18:47, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Occupation in lead

@

MOS:LEAD, the lead of an article is supposed to summarize the key points of an article. I added in sentences describing the Russian + proxy occupation and the concurrent human rights abuses, but you removed these, citing "NPOV". Can you explain which parts specifically are problematic, or tell me how you would prefer the topic to be covered? I don't want to just get into a revert war. HappyWith (talk) 04:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Hello, I believe this is part of a broader issue with Wikipedia's lack of neutrality regarding the Ukraine-related topics. For instance, describing a town as "occupied by proxy" introduces bias by aligning with a pro-Ukraine narrative, especially when discussing contentious issues like reported human rights abuses that were only reported by Western, clearly pro-Ukrainian news sources. I suggest steering away from such biased language and, instead, either presenting both perspectives or adopting a more impartial tone, such as stating, "Since 2014, it has been part of the LPR." This is just an example though, and should be phrased better, I appreciate your attention to this matter Mattia332 (talk) 12:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the response, but
reliable sources actually do describe the territories of the "LPR" and "DPR" as "Russian-occupied since 2014" (example) and have described the "peoples republics" themselves as "Russian proxies" (1) (2), so I think it is warranted to describe them as such in the article. Reliable sources take a "pro-Ukrainian stance" because those actually are the facts on the ground. HappyWith (talk) 16:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
I've re-added the passage about the occupation to the lead with slightly different wording, and added explicit citations to the body stating the LPR was a Russian proxy. If you have further objections, reply to this message. HappyWith (talk) 16:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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