Talk:Taken (2017 TV series)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. There's unanimous consensus for the first move, as well as consensus that the second should be moved to year disambiguation. There's still disagreement about whether the second should be (TV series) or (TV program); I'm moving to the latter as by my understanding it seems to have better support in the

• Taken (TV series) → Taken (2017 TV series)
• Taken (documentary TV series) → Taken (2016 TV program)

1. The 2017 television series article needs to be moved to further disambiguation as per
   WP:INCDAB
   .
2. The 2016 Canadian TV program article is currently using incorrect disambiguation under
   WP:NCTV. "By year" disambiguation is advisable in this case as well, to disambiguate from the 2017 TV series, though I would not object to moving this one to Taken (Canadian TV program)
   either.

Note also that Taken (miniseries), for the 2002 TV miniseries, also exists. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:35, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Support 1st, oppose 2nd and move instead to
  WP:NCTV says (TV series) are those that "express a unifying narrative theme" and an anthology of crime documentaries is such a narrative theme. -- Netoholic @ 04:25, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • "TV series", "TV program" and "TV show" are all used in the entertainment press, and by TV studios, to describe all manner of TV programming. But that's not how we disambiguate TV shows under
    Talk:Beyond (U.S. TV series)#Requested move 28 December 2018, Talk:The Fifth Estate (TV program)#Requested move 27 December 2018 and some other recent move discussions that we had back in late 2018. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:41, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • Anthology documentary shows fall under (TV series). Don't confuse the issue by linking a news program as its a completely different genres.
      Beyond (Canadian TV program) was a complete mistake. Please see how the vast majority of shows in Category:Canadian documentary television series and Category:American documentary television series (indeed the category names themselves) support this. If we need to clarify NCTV, then let's do it, but don't try to fight this battle on every single documentary series RM. -- Netoholic @ 05:07, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• Support the first as uncontroversial. The second does indeed fit the NCTV guideline for program. So support second as well. To Netholoic argument about the category names - the whole TV category tree is incorrectly named. Every TV program is placed under Category:American television series, so by that naming logic, every show is a TV series. --Gonnym (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @
    WP:NCTV#Series television definition as express a unifying narrative theme (that theme being an anthology of true crime documentary) and typically aired only part of the year, and are produced as a set or cycle of episodes usually called a "season". Perhaps it is a mistake for NCTV to express any definition of (TV program) other than describing it as a fallback, but it is the intent of the guideline, the common usage in the "real world", and the clear preference of editors to describe this style of show as (TV series). -- Netoholic @ 22:44, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • Except that has not been what has been expressed in recent RM's. NCTV isn't "Netoholic's preferred definitions" – it's what collectively is decided among editors at
      WT:NCTV and in RM's. Considering how often article-first authors incorrectly name or disambiguate their articles, that should have no bearing on how articles are systematically named. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:46, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      • NCTV isn't my definitions, but I should point out that the section you keep quoting was written and added by me somewhat recently, so I think I know the intent, but it seems to have the unintended effect of causing more confusion than it was meant to solve. We have a large number of article of this same type which have been using (TV series) for quite some time, rightly so. Instead of you seeking to address this on a wide scale, you have put it in a couple of low-visibility/low-participation RMs. If a change is your goal, it will take you decades at this pace. (TV program) is, and has always been, a fallback/catch-all for shows which do not fit (TV series), (game show), and other easily-understood and commonly-used disambiguators. -- Netoholic @ 00:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • That's how the process works – an editor adds or changes language; maybe later on they regret that language, but other editors have come to rely on the language or agree with its formulation. That you now regret the language you used doesn't change the fact that a number of us seem to agree with the current version of it. The issue here is that you basically want "TV series" to effectively be the "catch-all", but many of us do not agree with that: it's not about "seasons" – "TV series" are about continuing elements from episode to episode, which is nearly always a "continuing story" and "continuing characters". Many of us are satisfied with this definition. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:01, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • No, I want our usage of (TV series) to match as closely as possible what the rest of the world describes as a TV series. In the case of this article and the genre of anthology documentary shows - they are called "series". They have episodes and seasons and are sold to networks as series. Sources call them a series. Other repositories of data on these shows call them series. They are series, and if you are hung up on wording within NCTV which leads you to think otherwise, then we can fix it if you allow it. And from that point on you can be satisfied that we have a naming convention which matches reality. --
            Taken (documentary TV series), for example, on their official website (https://takentheseries.com), network website[1], press releases[2], and secondary coverage[3][4] is absolutely referred to as a series. Their Twitter handle is @takentheseries and their official Facebook is /takentheseries/ . Everything about this show screams at us "series" - its one of the clearest examples I've ever seen. So, if some editors are somehow arriving at the conclusion that we should not call it a (TV series), then either the guideline is unclear, they are confused, or they are trying to fully eliminate (TV series) as a valid option. -- Netoholic @ 03:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
            ]
• Support 1st, oppose 2nd and move instead to
  WP:NCTV unless this cannot be resolved by year and/or country. --woodensuperman 08:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support Both, though I don't know enough about where the 2nd should go, having just looked at the guideline. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:09, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support first, oppose second and support Netoholic's alternative move. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:12, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support first, oppose second and move to Taken (2016 TV series). I can't believe this series was considered more notable than the miniseries (also a TV series) in the first place. Personally, I'd move that to Taken (2002 TV series). This attempted distinction between a TV series and a miniseries is so much nonsense. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]