Talk:Te Pāti Māori

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Both "Māori Party" and "Te Pāti Māori" have been demonstrated to be common enough that we can't just say one is the definitive common name or not.

Additionally, New Zealand English is distinguished from other English dialects through its common acceptance of Māori vocabulary; in effect, though the words may be Māori in origin, they are still used in English speech. Compare with Uluru in Australia; in English speech, the use of its Pitjantjatjara name is greater than the use of its English name.

At the end of the day, this purely comes down to a headcount, which is in favour of moving. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support I had the thought the other week that it’s time for this article to be moved as indeed, the new name is the one that is more used in news sources these days. Schwede66 16:20, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per
  WP:COMMONNAME. In the last year there were 237 news results for Māori Party compared to 199 results for Te Pāti Māori. (Results for Te Pāti Māori are inflated due to a recent story on te ao maori news whose headline, which included "Te Pāti Māori", was copied to multiple unrelated articles like Ngoi Pewhairangi, Tuini Ngāwai inducted into NZ Music Hall of Fame) BilledMammal (talk) 17:53, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Comment: Until there’s an overwhelming majority, there might be a benefit to using the “English” name, even if te Pāti is more common, especially for our non-NZ audience. I’m of mixed mind, and I certainly don’t oppose the move, as there’s always the fact that their self-identification is fairly important. Clearly the party prefers to call themselves TPM, but is there a sense that they mind the older English name used by others? — HTGS (talk) 01:02, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I'd have to do some digging as to your question - I have a recollection that there was some opposition from TPM about continuing to use the older name when they first changed, but I'm having difficulty finding any of the sources about their own name change because all of that has been dwarfed by their proposal to change the name of New Zealand to Aotearoa. Turnagra (talk) 05:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, they go by Te Pāti Māori on their website and their party name in Parliament is Te Pāti Māori. So, for all intents and purposes, even parliamentary purposes, they go by Te Pāti Māori. News sources also more commonly refer to them as Te Pāti Māori these days it seems as well. I do note
  WP:COMMONNAME
  , however, in a more political side of things Te Pāti Māori (or TPM) is more frequently used to refer to it in the first place. It's also worth noting that it's definitely been borrowed far enough to have it fall under being an English-language title per article naming conventions.

With specific regard to BilledMammal's concerns over search results, they're about the same when I did a lookup, so—reiterating—I think it's reasonable to change the name given it's more prominently used in mainstream news, overall search results are about the same and it calls itself Te Pāti Māori. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 05:50, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• they're about the same when I did a lookup It will take a few weeks for Google to reindex; I estimate there are a few dozen results that shouldn't be there.

  The

  WP:COMMONNAME is clearer when we look at scholarly results; since 2021 there have been 190 results for Māori Party, compared to just 7 results for Te Pāti Māori

  .

  The name that the party themselves prefer is not relevant; see

  WP:OFFICIALNAME. BilledMammal (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  @

  WP:OFFICIALNAME completely but given both names in a more general non-academic sense tend to be used just as much as already addressed, I do think it is reasonable for us if both are used just as much to apply a slight preference to the name that is preferred by both the party and news organisations (I will note that sometimes Te Pāti Māori is (somewhat incorrectly) spelt as Te Paati Māori, which also doesn't help in terms of measuring this). I appreciate your response, given your genuine point which I do acknowledge I will just clarify that I'll amend my stance to omit strongly before support. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 11:49, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• Support On their own (mostly English-language) website, they use "Te Pāti Māori" exclusively. (Ironically, they don't seem to have a Te Reo version of their website at all.) This, combined with the fact that current usage elsewhere on the Internet is close to 50-50, suggests that it's time to make this change, if not now, then soon. PatricKiwi (talk) 06:43, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - its the name they've chosen, and it has been normalised in media coverage e.g. of tonight's political poll. Basicly, it is their common name now.--IdiotSavant (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @IdiotSavant: See the results for Google News and Google Scholar above; the evidence doesn't support the position that it is their common name now. BilledMammal (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose: In addition to what's been said above, it's standard on Wikipedia to refer to political parties by their English translation if they have a clear one. See politcal parties in Mexico, Russia, India, Japan, Poland, France, Italy, Germany, etc. In rare cases when the party is refered to using it's non-English name, like some parties in Ireland, it's extremely clear what the common name of that party is, and other parties in that country are refered to using their English name. --
  Spekkios (talk) 19:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

The difference here is that "Te Pāti Māori" is the name that this party now uses in all English language media - for example, its own web site: [1]. With one exception, the countries that you list above do not have English as a major language, and so their political parties will likely use different names or spellings internally than we do in the English Wikipedia. The exception is India, which has English as a major language. In your list of the national political parties in India, each of them has an English-language web site that uses the same name that's used in the English Wikipedia. So, if anything, your examples actually lend weight to the Support case. PatricKiwi (talk) 21:40, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Maori party do not use te pati Maori on their official website universally. For example, in their policy sections. They clearlty alternate between the two, as does news media. We also need to consider

Spekkios (talk) 21:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply

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