Talk:Toulouse Olympique

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 08:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

People nationality

There have been some debate on some people nationality.

First, Martin Mitchell has been said to come from the Cook Islands. There has been no reference for that. He is always said to be kiwi in the press.

Second, Zalduendo has had a Spanish nationality added. Here again there is no reference I know of in the press, while it is clear that he is French. I did not remove the additional Spanish flag at first, but then the French flag disappeared (?!). I think it is clearer to keep the French flag and not to have the Spanish without any proper reference. In any case, when people have several nationalities, it may make sense to keep the most relevant one. Here it is the article of a French club of Rugby League. The Spanish flag added, even if Zalduendo was to have a Spanish passport, is a bit irrelevant. In any case, it is never said anywhere in the press that he had a Spanish nationality.

Third, Carlos Mendes Varela, is born in Portugal and is Portughese. He arrived in France at 12 (he is now 24) and took the French nationality. He then chosed to play for the France A national team.[1] Putting a Portugal flag only may give the impression that the team is more international, but it is not the best way to represent a player who is in France since 12, has the French nationality and plays for the French national team. I could consider having the Portugal flag added, but I don't like it because this would double the size of the flag column just for one player. I don't think it would be good visually. So I prefer to keep the French flag. The details of the player's nationality are on his own page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpeilon (talk • contribs) 21:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The answer to this, in my personal opinion, is very simple. If it isn't referenced, and it concerns something as potentially offensive and contentious as nationality, remove it with haste. The solution from me is even more straight-forward: don't put national flags alongside player names in the first place. There's no need for the flags to be there within the context of the club (which is what the article is about), and
the use of such flags in a non-sporting context is discouraged, thus making the flags redundant in both of the contexts you'll ever need to use for a sports person, although obviously this is reversed when talking about representative sporting teams. So in short, my advice is: just remove the flags. GW(talk) 14:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

Added point: Mourad Kriouache has been written as Morroccan. This may well be possible, but he is French as well, living in France and playing for the French junior national team[2]. He is also described as a "promising French player" on the club website [3]. For these reasons, I think it is appropriate to keep the French nationality for him as well. Gpeilon (talk) 17:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Mendes Varela, it also makes more sense to keep the French nationality because a non French flag could suggest that he is a "quota player" while there is a regulation limiting their numbers. For the club he definitely plays as a French player, hence not a quota player. In addition to the points made precedently, we must also consider that a Portuguese flag would mislead readers in believing that he is a quota player.Gpeilon (talk) 16:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ http://www.to13.com/actualite-nl1/la-depeche-du-midi-toulouse-olympique-carlos-mendes-varela-et-la-%C2%AB-zen-attitude-%C2%BB.html
  2. ^ http://lerugbyselonchantal.midiblogs.com/archive/2009/01/21/equipe-de-france-juniors.html
  3. ^ http://www.to13.com/effectif/kriouache-mourad
The Championship may be different (I am not sure), but in Super League, quotas are not necessarily linked to nationality.
rls}} (e.g. Catalans Dragons). You may wish to consider using this if there is a dispute over a player's nationality. GW(talk) 20:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
Thanks for the link Ginger. The nationality of the players is an important piece of information, and not just for the question of the quota (which is linked even if not systematically with the players nationality). So it is always valuable to have it, like in other major sports:
Manchester United, Leicester Tigers. Gpeilon (talk) 02:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply
]

i suggest you use that thing that lunar lander has suggested to remove future flag problemsYoundbuckerz (talk) 13:02, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see that this conversation is a decade old, but the issue still exists. It appears that people of generally settled on the side of flags, but some are odd choices. Mark Kheirallah, for example, was born, raised, and played rugby in Australia. He has represented France on residency. So it seems to me that the French flag is obviously right--if flags are appropriate at all, the flag of the country for whom he earned a test cap should be used. The Aussie flag is probably also appropriate since, if he hadn't earned a French cap the Australian flag would be obvious. Yet, on this page, the Egyptian flag is used because he is of Egyptian descent. I've never seen any suggestion that he has represented Egypt, that he has an Egyptian passport, or that he has even been to Egypt. Surely, to the extent that flags have any place on this page, they are not simply to indicate players' genealogy. 2601:5CD:8100:3B04:6C62:F291:5B04:1084 (talk) 12:00, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Use of template

I know that a new template has been proposed for teams. Fair enough, to be honest I think it is too simple and remove lots of information. So its use is not consensual (at least I don't consent to use it on the Toulouse page where I spent some time to gather a lot of information about the team). As this template is not a Wikipedia policy and that other sports have team tables with more information, I do not see the need for this template. I am not against talking about it, but I am surely not to see all the info I collected on the team to be thrown away.Gpeilon (talk) 23:16, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The feeling was that isn't enough consistency across club articles currently. Besides that, most thought that there was too much detailed information on what is a summary of the club and that would be better placed on an articles such as 2010 Toulouse Olympique season - so it doesn't have to be thrown away. LunarLander // talk // 23:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Which specific pieces of information do you feel are missing? GW(talk) 01:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to agree with the consistency argument, that is a good one. Though the table which was erased actually contained much more info like age, weight, height, former clubs, year of arrival in the club. I have been gathering this info. No page belong to anybody but I find highly annoying to see somebody passing behind and blindly applying a rule erasing all this info.
Now about this template. Your suggestion to put the big table in the 2010 season, why not. But I find the template bare. In particular I find unattractive the fact that there are no flags. Flags in teams' lists are the rule in Wikipedia sports pages, and I feel here that there is an imposition of a template without flag which I do not like. Flags are illustrative and informative and take only a small place. Is this a choice (beside Ginger who stated his/her opinion on this matter) not to have flags? Let's put flags in the template and it is OK with me. In the mean time I highly dislike the revert before discussion on this matter. Wikipedia works on consensus, and until there is one the previous version should stay. It is a rule in discussion to leave the time for talks instead of engaging in edit warring which you are obviously aware of.Gpeilon (talk) 20:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
They're not
another rule
which implies the opposite?
Furthermore, for the information on hieght and weight (which is itself dodgy because a person's height and weight changes literally by the hour) you still need to be able to
OI), and also to establish the information is notable within the article's context. Is it particularly useful to know where a player previously signed from, when this information is already present in their biography? GW(talk) 12:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
"Flags in teams' lists are the rule". To be the rule means "the common order of things; normal condition". My text does not suggest that there is a Wikipedia policy. What I said was clear, you don't need to try to find a contradiction just to state your point which is "the pattern observed on sport pages is not an official policy". To which I answer, removing flag is not a policy either, and common practice is to have some. Regarding the suggestion of OI I am a bit surprised, and disappointed, to have to face this kind of remark while the table contained precise reference to the press book of the club with contains all the info on the players mentioned. And regarding height and weight, if they were so ludicrously variable that they can't describe a person they would not be listed on sports' website as individual characteristics. They would not be in the press book either.Gpeilon (talk) 19:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The point I made was that there isn't a pattern when it comes to national flags on squad lists, different WikiProjects make their own interpretations of
"merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia". The fact that Rory Bromley is 1.81m tall is irrelevent to Toulouse Olympique, unless this stat is somehow meaningful. GW(talk) 00:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
Frankly Ginger, like for the flags, I think you are taking your own (very respectable) views for those of Wikipedia. In the same way that flags are every where in sport team lists, the height and weight are information commonly available about sport players like
Johnny Wilkinson
.
Anyway, back to the question of the template. The consistency argument is a good one and while I find the template bare and poor in visual information, it is the only one and I won't engage in a lengthy discussion to change it. So after thinking about it, that's OK with me. The template will do on the main page, and the detailed table will be transferred to the season article. I would however encourage LunarLander to consider ways to include flag icons in the template in a nice esthetic way. Many thanks to him in any case for his work on this template which has the merit to exist.Gpeilon (talk) 00:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Gpeilon. If you wish in the future to build a consensus for changing this template or any others please feel free to begin a discussion on
WT:RL. LunarLander // talk // 18:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply
]

Dual Registered players

In the 2010 Squad do you know of players who are dual registered with Catalans if you do can you please put the name of the player and in brackets dual registered with Catalans DragonsYoundbuckerz (talk) 10:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet. Likely to be Barthau, Gigot, Guasch.Gpeilon (talk) 20:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Josh Ralph

The link for this player takes you to some Australian runner, not the RL player. I’ve not a clue how to correct this. 92.21.98.190 (talk) 21:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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