Talk:Transilien

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Do people here think that the Transillien bit in the box on the far right showing the letter designation of lines be made for the Transillien?

Please find below an exhaustive list of all SNCF stations within the

According to the www.transilien.com website, all text references to in-Paris stations seem to be indicated as "arrêts" and ex-Paris stations (not metro lines) as "Gares". Neither one or the other description appears on plans - save for exceptions like "Gare Melun" and "Melun Gare" as these are two different stations. As for the long and short hyphen argument, I have seen no evidence of long hyphens at all - the present usage for joining nameplaces is just spaces. For proof of this you have the list above and this map taken directly from the www.transilien.com website.

BTW, since 'Transilien' appellation also covers RER lines and stops, it is not divided into 'réseaux' named for their originating station - 'Transilien' is just a general appelation for all SNCF and RER stops within the Île-de-France. There is no "Transilien Gare d'Est" réseau, but there certainly is a SNCF Gare de l'Est reseau. Have a look on the SNCF/RATP/Transilien sites themselves for proof of this. --THEPROMENADER 20:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No that's wrong. The Transilien appelation only covers SNCF sections of the RER network, not RATP sections. To your own personal information, RATP sections represents more than half of the RER passengers trafic. The RER is as much "invited" on the Transilien map as the RER is on the Paris metro map.

As for the difference between "arrêts" and "gares", it's exactly the same in the Paris metro. In French, "arrêt" and "station" are perfect synonymous. It is a platform where a train only temporarily stops and doesn't park. It's the case of most metro stations. However, stations like Porte Maillot on line 1 or Porte de Versailles on line 12 are actually "gares" since trains are parking there, they are not "arrêts/stations". This being said, I believe this distinction is utterly irrelevant for Wikipedia. I by the way oppose the renaming of stations article into "Gare de XXX", this appelation should be exclusive to national rails stations in order to avoid disambiguation. Metropolitan 22:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're mixing the arguments of the 'naming conventions' paragraph (map reference, SNCF) with the second 'Transilien' "divisions" paragraph - the latter (from 'BTW') had nothing to do with the first or any map, it was a reference to the www.transilien.com website - the 'Itineraries' link to the left leads only (for the time being) to the RER schedules. I don't recall saying that there is a connection between Transilien and ratp - you mean 'inner-city' RER stations? Of course these aren't covered under the apellation. Isn't the 'Transilien' service clearly defined somewhere in one of the above sites? I have yet to find it. Anyhow, it seems that both SNCF and RER stations outside Paris qualify as being 'Transilen', and I see no 'Gare du Nord' Transilen divisions (etc) on any website - but perhaps you could better inform me on this.

I see your distinction between 'gare' and 'arret' in French naming conventions - and this I know dates far back indeed. Yet simple stops outside of Paris become 'gares' on the schedules and websites I saw - I was just trying to make some sort of logic of this distinction between the two. Usage seems to vary between the transport-idf.com, sncf.com and transilien.com. As for Wiki article naming conventions: I don't have an opinion one way or another, but whatever is chosen should be well thought-out, especially in the light of avoiding future ambiguity with other 'gare' articles - and those of other countries even! THEPROMENADER 23:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No you are fully wrong on this. All the RER operated by the RATP is not part of the Transilien network. That includes most of RER A (Saint-Germain <-> Boissy-Saint-Léger - Marne-la-Vallée), and the Southern part of the RER B (Gare du Nord <-> Robinson - Saint-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse). Being inside or outside the city proper is irrelevant in this issue. Metropolitan 02:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. What I posted above I concluded from what I found this link on the www.transport-idf.com site - and the definition to the right of the 'Transilien' logo. You'll even note that the RER division of the Transilien services is mentioned even before those leaving SNCF stations. Also detailed there is the RER A precision you mentioned above, as well as the SNCF/Transilen jurisdictions of RER B. As for all the other RER lines (C, D, E) belong completely to the the Transilien network, even the portions within Paris. Until now I had no idea about what the RATP does or doesn't own; my 'outside Paris' comment was just a vague reference to this.

As for the Tranielien's division into 'reseaux' seen here, I have yet to see any publication or website showing it divided in this way; I would think that, because of the Transiilen RER lines, that such a division would be omissive and impossible, and it is probably for this that only SNCF lines are divided (to date) between their stations of origin. Anyhow, from here It looks as though the 'Transilien' is just a label slapped on already-existing services without changing them in the least - I am not involved in this article, but I would still like to know more about this. THEPROMENADER 08:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To answer Promenader: here ([1]) is an image from the RER, Transilien, Métro and Tram map appearing on the walls of all RER and Métro stations in Paris. It clearly shows the use of the long dash. If you pay attention next time you are in the Métro, you'll also notice the long dashes. Long dashes are dropped only when the name of the station is spelled on two lines. So you'll find either:
Villejuif – Paul Vaillant-Couturier
or:
         Villejuif
Paul Vaillant-Couturier

As for the Transilien division into 6 networks, again it clearly appears on the same RER, Transilien, Métro, and Tram map as you can see it here: ([2]). Hardouin 12:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True, the long dash is the usage on that plan. If I really wanted to nitpick I could note that, when a nameplace is divided over two lines, the short dash goes too (as in 'Saint-Germain-en-Laye"). But the real question is, as already asked above: What is the most common usage? By what I've seen in most signs, schedules and publications, it's a space, not a dash. THEPROMENADER 13:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If we were going by most common usage, there are lots of things on Wikipedia that should be renamed. By most frequent usage, we wouldn't have a

Richmond upon Thames or a Roissy-en-France article, we would simply have a "Richmond" and a "Roissy" article. Here at Wikipedia we usually use official names. Hardouin 16:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply

]

Your argument is non sequitur because I spoke explicitly of signs, schedules and publications. Or, in other words: references. THEPROMENADER 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, just pay attention to signs next time you're in the Métro, and you'll notice the long dashes. In particular, go to Place Monge station, since that's where you say you're living, and notice the signs showing Villejuif – Léo Langrange (long dash) or Aubervilliers – Pantin – Quatre Chemins (long dashes). Hardouin 18:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're just repeating yourself - by the above you just want to indicate that you know where I live? I don't see your goal in this, but you're going to get another warning on your talk page because of it. Anyhow, instead of wasting time in such endeavours and one chosen plan, have a look at many web and Rail publications and tell Wiki what the dominant French rail-company naming convention is. That way your input would be a help to discussion instead of a disruption. THEPROMENADER 20:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Transilien network - I gave a direct link to an on-site definition of 'Transilien' just above, and there is absolutely no mention of Transilien whatsoever on the legend you indicate. THEPROMENADER 13:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite clear when looking at the map that the lines indicated are the Transilien lines. You're just using facile arguments now. Hardouin 16:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hold with the gratuitous and unfounded accusations please. There is no trace of Transilien logo or description in that legend. The goal here was finding a definition of 'Transilien'. I provided a referenced definition: you didn't. End of story. THEPROMENADER 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As appears clearly in the image above, the map is called:
"Île-de-France
RER – Transilien – Métro – Tram"

Anyway, I'm just talking to a wall. Hardouin 18:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Transilien division into 6 networks, again it clearly appears on the same RER, Transilien, Métro, and Tram map as you can see it here: ([2]). Hardouin 12:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what is your goal here? Where is 'Transilien' in the legend you indicated in your phrase just above, stating which lines are Transilien and which are not? Exactly how is this a better definition 'Transilien' is than the reference I provided, and if not, why did you even mention it? Stop wasting other people's time please. THEPROMENADER 20:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]