Talk:Wallachia
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Black Wallachia
Both names could come from a confusion : Kara Iflak, the Turkish name of Vallachia, means ”land of Vallachians” ; but later kara ”land” was mistranslated as kara - black. Later, the Turks renamed Moldavia and Vallachia as Kara-Iflak (Moldavia) and Ak Iflak (Vallachia) according to the Turkish cardinal points symbolism : north is symbolized by black, and west is symbolized by white.
This "color assignment" comes in direct contradiction with 3rd footnote in (in Romanian) Description of Moldavia by Dimitrie Cantemir.
P.S.: I dropped the idea of citing properly a wikisource resource in another language (if it can be done at all) as it was a real pain for someone who's trying to do it for the first time.
Map
Hi Alin2808,
the map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TR_XIII_-_XVI_copy.jpg
I see you restored that map, but that map is incorrect, it should be change or remove.
You can see it is more proper because it mention what are those areas: fiefs: File:Tara Rumaneasca map.png
For example King Sigismund of Hungary was Holy Roman Emperor also, but it does not mean Hungary became part of the Holy Roman Empire or the Holy Roman Empire became part of Hungary. King Louis of Hungary was the king of Poland too but it does not mean Hungary became part of Poland or inverse. Hungarian kings held the title king of Cumania, king of Bulgaria... but it does not mean those regions were part of the Kingdom of Hungary. I know for a certain period the Hungarian king donated fief land to the Wallachian voivode who was his vassal, and the provided land was inside the Hungarian crown inside the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary, that land did not became part of Wallachia because the Wallachia voivode got fief estates there, and from those estates he paid tax to his overlord to the Hungarian king, that is the feudal system. If Hungarian lords got estates in Hungary, those areas did not became separate countries.
If I check international and Hungarian history maps I never see those regions were detached from the Kingdom of Hungary. And that map is a photoshopped user made map not an academic history map. In Wiki we should present academic history maps or user made maps if the base of those maps are sourced reliable academic maps: Wikipedia:No original research
Example international maps:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_in_the_14th_Century.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Public_Schools_Historical_Atlas_-_Europe_14th_century.jpg
https://www.accordingtophillips.com/uploads/8/1/8/3/81833274/europe-1360_orig.png
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_1360.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/4ced68cf04b685e1ec51557b70cb94ab/tumblr_pb5gc1qZFc1rasnq9o1_1280.jpg
Hungarian modern academic maps about medieval Hungary in that period:
https://baloghpet.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/nagy_lajos-1360-1280px.jpg
https://images.slideplayer.hu/41/11284622/slides/slide_25.jpg
https://images.slideplayer.hu/41/11284622/slides/slide_20.jpg
From this book: [3] From Nicopolis to Mohács: A History of Ottoman-Hungarian Warfare, 1389–1526. Tamás Pálosfalvi. The Ottoman Empire and Its Heritage: Politics, Society and Economy 63.
The author is one of the most respected and expert historian in the history of that time. I show some maps, still I do not see that big areas of the south area of the Kingdom of Hungary would be part of Wallachia.
OrionNimrod (talk) 11:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- The fiefs do appear colored differently on the map. Though looking again at it, the map has other issues as well (like showing Vicina on the map when its location is debated, and the coats of arms used). The map also doesn't appear to be used elsewhere either. Alin2808 (talk) 19:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Alin2808, thanks for understanding! OrionNimrod (talk) 08:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Greek name
"it was already there a long time" is not a strong argument if it's the only one. Virtually no-one of the population spoke Greek. The lead and the top of the infobox should be reserved for names in relevant languages. Greek was used by Phanariot Wallachian rulers and I presume their courts for a century. Wallachia existed for over five. Even Church Slavonic, another language only spoken by a small fraction of the population, was more relevant. Super Ψ Dro 16:01, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok so then we delete Church Slavonic as well 213.233.110.226 (talk) 17:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Church Slavonic name of Wallachia is currently not included. I put it as an example because it was a language with a (not completely) similar situation to Greek in the country and because Moldavia used to include it as well as Greek. Super Ψ Dro 18:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok whatever then we wait for other people to share their opinions on this matter 213.233.110.226 (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Church Slavonic name of Wallachia is currently not included. I put it as an example because it was a language with a (not completely) similar situation to Greek in the country and because Moldavia used to include it as well as Greek. Super Ψ Dro 18:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)