Talk:West Bromwich Albion F.C.

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Good articleWest Bromwich Albion F.C. has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 27, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
November 18, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
December 2, 2007Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Famous supporters

I always thought the

Villa supporter. Does anyone have any support for this? Cutler 00:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply
]

I have removed all "famous supporters" where I could not find a reliable source stating that they are Albion supporters.
Goran Ivanisevic is notable for wearing an Albion shirt durng the warm-up to tennis final (although I'm not sure if he has actually attended any Albion games). All of the afforementioned have been retained. The remainder are somewhat dubious. Cat Deeley may well be an Albion fan, but where is the evidence? --Jameboy 11:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
I have made sure that every famous supporter listed has a citation against it, which is a lot more than most football club pages - apparently this isn't enough. I really don't see a problem with listing famous fans if they are all sourced - which they are. The Manchester City F.C. article mentions the Gallagher brothers supporting the club, and that was a featured article, so what is the difference here? If there is a policy or consensus on not including celebrity supporters then please point me to it and I'll go along with it. Otherwise please contribute constructively to the article (I have outlined several tasks in the To Do list above) rather than removing sourced material. Thanks. --Jameboy 17:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the consensus at WP:FOOTY is clearly not to have famous fans in club articles, so I have removed them. Each reference has been moved to the page of the celebrity supporter concerned, except for Eric Clapton, whose "support" seemed highly dubious. --Jameboy 14:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A photo of Eric Clapton appeared in an official club publication, which I have got, and he was wearing an Albion shirt. I believe the article stated he was a fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by G1cbk (talk • contribs) 13:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Can someone British tell me what "Albion" refers to, as I know it is in a couple of football team names. Much obliged. Roadhockey 23:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.baggies.com/celebrities/ - John

Albion is an ancient mythical name for Great Britain and is well-explained in that article. I understand that West Brom's name comes from the nearby, but now defunct, factory the Albion Foundry. I have no idea about the other teams. Cutler 09:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Roadhockey 13:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yes lenny henry is an albion fan, he sat in the same row as me for the wembley gaeme against derby ( in the albion end) and was cheering and shouting for the club

Too much emphasis on the present

I think we should resist the temptation to keep adding the latest news/speculation regarding Robson/Peace/the fans. That is not what an encyclopedia article is for. The sections regarding the last few seasons are too long and will need to be condensed. If people want to add things, there are some gaps in the history which need to be filled, not to mention many Albion player articles which could be created or added to. Jameboy 23:15, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed Cutler 09:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a comment to the 2006-Present section requesting this. Aabha (talk) 10:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid recentism, I've applied a 'Major Edit' to the History section, merging everything from 2000 onwards into the article History of West Bromwich Albion F.C., and replacing it with a vastly condensed version in the main article. --Jameboy 14:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Honours

The addition of runners-up 'honours' makes it look really ugly IMHO, much preferred the old formatting 86.128.180.142 19:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe runners-up honours are noteworthy, with the possible exception of the charity shield. I've improved it slightly by taking the bold off (old) and (new). This follows the format of the Man City article, which was a featured article. Now we just need to get the rest of the WBA article up to the same standard, which could take a while! Jameboy 15:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "Baggies" and "Boing Boing"

I always thought the nickname derived from the fact that they were the first club to wear baggy shorts.

This is a popular assumption, but there is little evidence to support it. I've heard the theory about baggy trousers worn in foundries more than once. According to club historian Tony Matthews however (three or four years ago) the nickname arose because at one of the previous grounds (Stoney Lane?) the turnstile operators used to carry the takings along the touchline at some point in the match, in big leather bags or holdalls, and the cry used to go up "here come the bag men". This soon got corrupted to Baggies.Haydn01 15:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where does the 'boing boing' chant originate from? Martyn Smith 21:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No one really knows. It started around the time that Albion played in the old Third Division (1991/2 season). One of the more convincing theories is that it started in a public house during a conversation about Albion "bouncing back" to the higher divisions.Haydn01 15:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to WBA Unofficial it comes from the song Poing by Rotterdam Termination Source. Jameboy 21:39, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I always "understood" that the 'boing boing' chant related back to the club's foundation by spring workers, although I have no greater provenance for this than any of the other theories.—The preceding

unsigned comment was added by Mbalmer (talk • contribs
) .


the chant boing boing came from when preston north end had a plastic pitch and west brom scored a goal from where the ball bounced several times and then bounced over the goal keeper and in the net. the west brom fans chanted boing boing to take the mik out of the preston fans but the chant soon stuck and now chant it every time they score. [liam17]

If you can find a
reliable source for this, i'll add it in to the article. --Jameboy (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

Encyclopaedic?

Feel this article is too 'chatty' and not NPOV enough on the whole Martyn Smith 21:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We also need a grown-up article History of West Bromwich Albion F.C. to help manage the content better. Cutler 19:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First team in Russia

"Albion were the first English team to play in Russia" - I was led to believe this was actually Arsenal, who played Dynamo Moscow in Russia on October 5, 1954. [2] When did Albion make their visit to Russia? Qwghlm 09:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Albion's Soviet tour was in the summer of 1957. They won two games and drew one; the ones they won were against Dynamo Tbilisi (Georgia, not Russia) and against CDKA, the Soviet Army side, in Moscow. The draw was against FC Zenit in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), which was the first of the three. Albion were not the first English side to play in Russia, but they were the first British professional side to win a game there. They were the first to play in China. Haydn01 20:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clearing that up & correcting, cheers. Qwghlm 12:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved list of managers

I've changed the section 'Managerial history' to 'Notable former managers', and moved the old list to its own article, List of West Bromwich Albion F.C. managers. The list was part of the clutter in this article which needs trimming. I'm sure there will be some disagreement as to what constitutes a 'notable' manager but I'm more than happy to debate it here if anyone disagrees with my initial shortlist. --Jameboy 22:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Albion / West Brom

I've removed the following from the article:

The club is also known colloquially as The Albion or West Brom. Of these last two names, "the Albion" is more common in the local areas of Birmingham and the Black Country, while further afield "West Brom" is probably more common.

This is undoubtedly true, but I haven't been able to find a source for it. If a citation can be found I'll add it back in. --Jameboy 15:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

Following a bunch of comments I made at the peer review, I'm now reviewing the article for GA status. Please find below my comments!

  • Ensure all citations are placed per
    WP:CITE
    .
 Done I have removed one rogue space, but other than that all seems in order. For prose I have consistently cited after puncuation, and for lists/tables wherever seems appropriate. If you spot any specific transgressions I'll be happy to correct them. Note - I won't mark this one as done until I've added in any additional citations following the other comments below. Now done. --Jameboy (talk) 00:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Now managed by ..." not keen on this phrasing. I know what you mean but not great.
 Done Agree, it kind of skips between tenses. I've rephrased this bit. --Jameboy 01:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...engineered a dramatic and improbable last-day “Great Escape”, with Albion becoming the first Premiership club to stave off relegation ..." - very journalistic, needs work, quotations etc to survive.
 Done Agree, it was OTT for an encyclopedia, have rephrased it to reduce it to the bare facts. It was dramatic and improbable though (source: my shredded nerves) --Jameboy (talk) 01:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid World War II - pipe it and say Second World War, this is British English.
 Done Hmmm. It seems even the resident experts can't agree on this (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#World War II mentions a talk page discussion at Webley Revolver on this very subject). I'm happy to leave them to it for now and accept whatever consensus results. In the meantime I have made the changes you suggested, both for British English and also because it sounds better. I was hesitant to make this change at first, but having read a little more on this I'm more convinced now. --Jameboy (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Order citations numerically, you have, for example, [42][39].
 Done This was the only instance of this as far as I can see. --Jameboy (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...also provided the club's clothing..." really? or did they just manufacture it?
 Done It means manufactured, but changed to "produced" as manufactured twice in one sentence doesn't sound right to me. --Jameboy (talk) 00:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In later years an effigy of a throstle sat perched above the scoreboard of the old Woodman corner at The Hawthorns, and was returned to the same area of the ground following redevelopment in the early 2000s." needs citation.
 Done
  • coincide is not hyphenated.
 Done
  • "Not until the early 21st century did the actual club crest appear on the team's shirts." needs citation.
 Done Now cited. The statement is not written explicitly at source, but the images within the source do (IMO) back up what is being said here. --Jameboy 01:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Albion drew 1–1 with Derby County in the first match at the stadium, on September 3, 1900. The Hawthorns experienced its record attendance on March 6, 1937, when 64,815 spectators saw Albion beat Arsenal 3–1 in the FA Cup quarter-final. In the 1990s, following the Taylor Report, the ground became all-seated. Today, it is a 28,003 capacity all-seater stadium, comprising the Birmingham Road End, Smethwick End, East Stand and Halfords Lane Stand. At an altitude of 551 feet (168 metres), The Hawthorns is the highest ground among those of all 92 Premier League and Football League clubs." - citations?
 Done All these facts now cited
  • Can't believe you got Gaardsoe from us... boo.
Aye, good player, shame he was forced to retire. I guess you enjoyed the bit about the '78 cup semi though... --Jameboy (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Other theories relate to the baggy shorts worn by various players during the club's early years. The official club mascot is named Baggie Bird, and is based on the throstle depicted on the club crest." - cite.
 Done
  • Ownership and governance section is very choppy - look to flow a number of the sentences together...
 Done Section expanded, flow improved, additional citations added. --Jameboy 18:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Notable players table, make ranges consistent with other ranges, so 1886–1899 becomes 1886–99.
 Done
  • Same for managers.
 Done
  • With managers, consider actually including what they did win to make them notable. I found it interesting that Ardilles and Atkinson were in the same "notable" category but want to know why!
 Done Have added the achievements that meet the specified notability criteria. Also tweaked the criteria slightly to include runners up. --Jameboy 21:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss, fix, etc and I'll promote. Give me a shout whenever! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good work. Promoted to GA now. The Rambling Man 17:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Away kit gone all screwy

Due to Image:Kit body greenstripes.png being deleted from the wiki commons, the yellow and green away kit is not displaying properly (Colours section). I have asked the person who deleted the image from Commons to kindly undelete it. --Jameboy (talk) 01:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hooligan firm - source required

The following has been removed due to being from a non-notable source:

The
hooligan firm who associate themselves with Albion are known as Section 5.[1]

Can anyone find a reliable source for this information? Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 14:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Found one - now added back in. Jameboy (talk) 01:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Hooligan Firms". Ave-it.net. Retrieved 2007-11-11.

MBEs etc

I removed the bit about Cyrille Regis' MBE from the Notable Players section but now I'm not sure. Is it relevant here or not? (it certainly is relevant to the Regis article, I won't dispute that). If we add it back in, we'd also have to mention Sir Bobby Robson CBE, Sir Geoff Hurst MBE, Tony Ford OBE, Garth Crooks OBE, Bryan Robson OBE, Brendon Batson MBE, Steve Bull MBE and others I may have forgotten. I'd like to re-visit the criteria for the Notable Players section - the 125th anniversary XVI seems fine, as it's the closest we have to a "Hall of Fame", but the prose underneath I'm not sure about (even though I wrote it). It should be relevant to the club but without just regurgitating most apps, most goals, international caps etc, which is well covered in the records and statistics section. Any input would be welcomed. Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 17:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No shirt sponsor

The 'colours' section should mention the fact that West Brom have started the current season without a shirt sponsor. It should mention how the situation came about; and mention it is extremely rare for a club not to have a shirt sponsor. Im sure it's unprecedented in the Premier League era. It might be interesting to say when was the last time a top-flight club didnt have a shirt sponsor. Willy turner (talk) 23:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ive added something about it, though I haven't found any source that actually says when/if a Prem club was last without a sponsor. It isn't the first time (since shirts were sponsored) that Albion haven't had a sponsor, as the club removed the Coucher & Shaw logo from the team shirts when said firm of solicitors were closed down in 1994. I've added this to the article also. --Jameboy (talk) 17:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Supporters section - review

I have removed all of the following from the Supporters section due to them not being supported by a source:

  • "Albion fans sing the first verse, usually twice, followed by the chant "The West Brom" repeated four times with hand claps."
  • "Albion fans' use of this anthem dates back at least to the 1970s."
  • "...although an unofficial newspaper, The Baggies, is still produced."
  • "In many ways the fanzines have been replaced by unofficial web sites, including westbrom.com[1]." (original research / PoV)

--Jameboy (talk) 20:06, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ [1]

Article Review

Here are some comments for Jameboy as asked on my talk page:

  • "West Bromwich West Midlands" This looks a bit awkward. Could a comma be added in between?
  • "but more recently the major rivalry..." can you say when?
  • "becoming the first team to adopt the Albion suffix" Needs a citation
  • First mention of Division One should be linked.
  • "Nonetheless, Albion became known for their brand of fluent, attacking football, with the 1953–54 side being hailed as "The Team of the Century". One national newspaper went so far as to suggest that the team be chosen en masse to represent England at the 1954 World Cup finals.[19] " Just wondering is the first sentence covered in the citation? Otherwise it would need to be cited.
  • "The Baggies" Doesn't need to be bolded the second mention.
  • Differentiate between is/are or was/were. It ought to be plural but consistency is the main thing. See
    here
    for more details.

Hope these can help. Eddie6705 (talk) 19:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Crest

I should point out that the section entitled "Crest" uses the word incorrectly as crest actually means something different in this context. I appreciate that it is a common colloquialism but it seems a bit inaccurate for an encyclopedia. If there are no objections I think all references to "crest" should be changed to "badge" (coat of arms would be more accurate but seems unusual in a football context where badge is more common). Keresaspa (talk) 02:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

club

Why is club plural in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.59.202 (talk) 15:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is the opening too long?

It seems the opening of this article is too long.--74.167.7.205 (talk) 20:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you mean, please be more specific. --Jameboy (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the opening it states that the Albion - Wolves matches are called the Black Country Derby. Whereas the media call it such, I believe that Wolverhampton is not actually part of the Black Country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by G1cbk (talk • contribs) 13:09, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Loans

Several players out on loan expired in January and some this February. Can someone keep track please. I'd don't know if their loan deals have been extended or if they have returned to the hawthorns. IJA (talk) 13:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

West Brom in Europe

The section "West Brom in Europe" seems to give undue weight and too much detail to European competitions, especially as Albion never advanced beyond the quarter-finals of either the Cup Winners Cup or UEFA Cup. I will remove this section if there are no objections. --Jameboy (talk) 22:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No objections received after 2 weeks so have removed section. --Jameboy (talk) 23:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
IP has added it again with no sources and no explanation. I removed it again. I will not revert again but would ask others to do so if in agreement with my reasons for removing it. --Jameboy (talk) 18:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Greenock125 (talk · contribs) re-added it (the section is now called European record) but has not responded to my message on his talk page, left on 25 Nov 2012. I am still in favour of removing this section. --Jameboy (talk) 18:59, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posting here in response to request for input at
WT:FOOTY#West Bromwich Albion F.C.#European record.

The club article is supposed to be an overview of the main features of that club. So a list of match results in competitions that were a relatively minor part of this club's history wouldn't really be appropriate either in their importance to the club or in level of detail. What I did with Birmingham City's European record, which at the time was just the Fairs Cup campaigns of 50+ years ago and fairly significant in that club's history, was to include a match results table with some introductory words at List of Birmingham City F.C. records and statistics#Birmingham City in Europe. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:53, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply

]

My view is. As long as that list isn't too long (Barcelona like) it is ok. Those European spells are quite significant to any club, aren't they? -Koppapa (talk) 22:07, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced all European results need to be listed in the main article. Many clubs with an equivalent number of European games (or less) have specific European articles where these results can be listed. See Category:English football clubs in Europe. Eldumpo (talk) 22:41, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As Eldumpo has said, some clubs have "Wiki Town A.F.C. in European football" articles to house the results of European matches. There isn't a West Brom one as yet, though I have no problem with starting one up. Once one is made, the section could simply have a short summary and a Template:Main pointing to the new article. Malpass93! (what I've been up to/drop me a ___) 13:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it took all day, but West Bromwich Albion F.C. in European football is now an article. Malpass93! (what I've been up to/drop me a ___) 20:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou, that is very good work indeed. I moved the dablink to a more prominent place above History, since both quarter-final runs are mentioned in that section of prose. I thus removed the Europe section as European football is part of this (prose) history and the detail appears in the newly-created article. European football is an important part of the club history, yet there have been many domestic league and cup games more significant than a 1st round UEFA Cup tie against Grasshopper Zurich (for example), hence why I thought it needed changing. I think this resolves the issue, so thankyou again. --Jameboy (talk) 23:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

#127 Reference

What happened with the #127 Reference? There is a "." rather than the reference. I don't know how then anyone can fix this reference. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adil Nabi

If Athe players are listed with their FIFA eligibility next to their name, why does Adil Nabi have a Pakistani flag? He's played for England as an under 16 and 17 , and doesn't hold a Pakistani passport. --94.0.194.164 (talk) 18:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Daily Mail article

Copy of my comment just left at

WT:FOOTY
:

When I saw this Daily Mail article about football crests/badges, I thought I might find some interesting information that could be added to Wikipedia articles. I had a look at the West Bromwich Albion section of the article and found that it looked very similar to the relevant Wikipedia section, most of which I wrote. It seems sufficiently different so as not to be plagiarism, but it would be bad journalism if they had taken Wikipedia at face value without fact checking. I will note this all on the article's talk page. Do you think we need to do anything else? My worry would be if people thought that Wikipedia had plagiarised them (even though it can be proved otherwise). I also thought about maybe contacting the journalists involved, to see how their article was sourced. --Jameboy (talk) 08:28, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reserve Squad

The reserve squad should be listed and a page for the reserves and academy should be created.--Sammanhumagain (talk) 05:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2018

Moved from User:Richierich2503/sandbox
 – — IVORK Discuss 06:38, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They are in the CHAMPIONSHIP not the Premier League so it needs to be changed please -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richierich2503 (talk • contribs)

 Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 06:44, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply
]
Currently in the Premier League, with one more game to go as of today. Headed for the Championship league next season, and I guess the WP soccer community should have consensus on when the change formally happens. David Brooks (talk) 01:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2024

Owner - Shilen Patel

Chairman - Shilen Patel 2A09:8044:A35:0:915:A76F:BF02:B406 (talk) 00:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a
"change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:28, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply
]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2024

Owner is no longer Lai its shilled Patel 2A02:C7C:3126:4900:70F6:D1C7:9D0C:28F0 (talk) 22:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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