Talk:Wittenberg University

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I do not believe the AAUP censure information is appropriate for this article and should either be removed or better cited. The information does not contain any neutral sources (see

). The AAUP sanction information makes up more than half of the Academics section of this article and relies exclusively on a single source directly from the organization issuing the "sanction". No reputable third party sources, unbiased sources, or sources containing information on the university's official response to the claims are cited.

Beyond improving the citations, this section is still not likely a good fit for the article. Of the 57 institutions with official, non-COVID-19 related censures from the AAUP [1], I was not able to locate any mention of AAUP related sanctions or censures in the Wikipedia articles for these institutions. Of the seven institutions which were the target of an AAUP investigation for institutional policies arising from the COVID-19 crisis [2], only two of them,

, have mentions of such information in the institutions' respective Wikipedia article. These two lists are not exhaustive and are not inclusive of all institutions sanctioned or censured by AAUP. AAUP sanctions and censures appear to be so common that such an action should not be notable or relevant enough to appear in this article nor is the event notable enough in the institution's history to require such a sizable chunk of article dedicated to it.

The continuous reversion of this information, which is neither well-cited nor well established among any university page on Wikipedia, seems to particularly target Wittenberg University for reasons that are not particularly clear. If the weight of the evidence shows that the information provided is notable enough to be included on Wikipedia, I believe that given the number of institutions targeted by AAUP sanctions and the large number of targeted institutions which do not have active or recognized AAUP union chapters, the information might be better suited for its own Wikipedia article or as an addition to the American Association of University Professors article.

WhySoMan (talk) 03:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree and I worry that you are misunderstanding or misapplying Wikipedia policies. In particular, sources are not required to be neutral; that only applies to what we ourselves write in articles.

I do agree with you that we are very inconsistent in how we include this kind of information in articles. In this instance, however, the solution is to add the information to those other articles and not to delete it from this one.

If it's any consolation, I am amenable to the information in this article being edited or shortened. I am simply not amenable to completely deleting it as it is pertinent and well-sourced. ElKevbo (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I believe you are the one misunderstanding Wikipedia policies. While a neutral point of view is required for writing articles, Wikipedia's policy on citations states that we should rely on "...reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" when possible. While a non-neutral source may fit, we still have other concerns. Simply having a citation does not meet the requirement for being well-cited.

Please see the following sections of Wikipedia's article on point of view. In

WP:BALASP

, which states that "...a description of isolated events, quotes, criticisms, or news reports related to one subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic. This is a concern especially for recent events that may be in the news. " The amount of space dedicated to sanctions and censures in this article -- between the APA and AAUP censures -- is probably not appropriate, especially given that it is uncommon for Wikipedia articles for colleges and universities to contain such information where it exists.

Based upon the foregoing, I do not believe this information is pertinent or well-sourced. WhySoMan (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will accept User:ElKevbo's most recent edit as more appropriate, unless there are other objections, and leave it at that. WhySoMan (talk) 15:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have genuinely thought about our lack of a systematic process to include AAUP information in articles; I think it would be very helpful and appropriate to explicitly note if institutions have been censured, I just haven't figured out how we can do this in a way that is sustainable. ElKevbo (talk) 16:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would also advocate for a similar change on the

TRACS. WhySoMan (talk) 17:35, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

.