User talk:3family6/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Invitation to the December Wikification Drive

Hi there! I thought you might be interested in WikiProject Wikify's December Wikification Backlog Elimination Drive. We'll be trying to reduce the backlog size by over 1,000 articles and we need your help! Hard-working participants in the drive will receive awards for their contributions, including a brand new one for the single largest wikified article! All you have to do is put an asterisk next to the largest article you've wikified, and coordinators will check its wordcount after the drive ends. If you have a spare moment, please join and wikify an article or tell your friends. Thanks! Note: The drive starts December 1, and you can sign up today!

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 01:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC).

Edit

You know people like you ---- me off , you don't know ---- about Metal and you just talk ----, If I wasn't here then there would be no page for Brachiosauride on this website, I had the same issue with moderators of the ---- wikipedia about two other pages too (Sunn O))) and Vattnet Viskar) I wanna help your site about Underground Metal music bands and you don't want it --46.70.56.240

If you have constructive content that is can be verified by independent

reliable sources, then go ahead and add it. I acknowledge that I do not know much about metal, I just research it and look for sourceable content. I have no problem with any band, underground or not, being on Wikipedia, as long as the article meets the standards of Wikipedia.--¿3family6 _contribs

18:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Reliable sources in case of unpopular music

Greets. Found my add to the 'Avant-garde metal' article deleted, because the source cited is not considered to be reliable. It first turned me simply furious, but I try to see the problem larger. Avant-garde metal is a genre that is quite hard to call mainstream. Many bands are really underground. Like Lux Occulta, or Phlebotomized. For some reasons these bands are still very underrated due to the lack of attention to their music. But if you give them a listen, being an expert, you will easily discover that they are real avant-garde. I think the whole article concerned should be revised: calling Celtic Frost or Agalloch avant-garde while rejecting Opeth from the list seems pure nonsense to me as a fan of this kind of music. But my question is about something else: how is it possible that I cite a reliable source for a band that is unfairly underrated and therefore not reviewed in serious zines? There are hundreds of cases like that of Lux Occulta, so no place in Wiki for them? This is not a reproach to you, but I would be really grateful if you could at least point me at the ways of solving the problem. Thanks in advance!--Alex Vynogradoff (talk) 20:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I really don't know what to say. I agree that the avant-garde metal article is not that great, but it is very, very hard to find any reliable sources that discuss it, I've pretty much used all the reliable internet sources available to get the article to its current state. For Lux Occulta, I would just say keep looking. Your best bet for a good, reliable mention is MusicMight/Rockdetector or Blabbermouth.net.

Allmusic has an article on them, but it doesn't mention avant-garde or experimental metal. Hope you can find something,--¿3family6 contribs

21:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Your article has been moved to AfC space

Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: User:3family6/Crabcore has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Crabcore, this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. ArticlesForCreationBot (talk) 00:23, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at

Articles for creation

Articles for Creation

. Your article submission has been reviewed. However, the reviewer felt that a few things need to be fixed before it is accepted. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. (You can do this by adding the text {{subst:submit}} to the top of the article.)

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Crabcore.
• To edit the submission, you can use the edit button at the top of the article, near the search bar
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the
  Help desk or the reviewer's talk page. Alternatively you can ask a reviewer questions via live help

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia!  Chzz  ►  09:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Apologies

I did not realise that the article had been resubmitted. However I agree with Chzz that it needs stronger sources before being accepted. I do like the quantity, which would stop it from being Speedily Deleted, however I doubt it would survive an

AFD. Sincerely, He's Gone Mental

13:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

No problem. I don't see how it does not meet

WP:RS standards, but that's okay.--¿3family6 _contribs

13:53, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at

Articles for creation

Articles for Creation

. Your article submission has been reviewed. However, the reviewer felt that a few things need to be fixed before it is accepted. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. (You can do this by adding the text {{subst:submit}} to the top of the article.)

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Crabcore.
• To edit the submission, you can use the edit button at the top of the article, near the search bar
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the
  Help desk or the reviewer's talk page. Alternatively you can ask a reviewer questions via live help

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia!

talk

) 22:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Kay Kenyon (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to American

Melchor F. Cichon (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Aklanon

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:16, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Wilhelmina Will (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Good tidings to you and your kin! :) Wilhelmina Will (talk) 09:29, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

RE: Merry Christmas!

Hey. I meant to get back to you earlier on this, but thanks for the Christmas wishes. I hope yours was a celebratory and worthwhile time. As long as it's relevant, I'll wish you a happy new year as well. Peace.

Speak to me_{concerning my deeds.}

02:08, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks.--¿3family6 _contribs 13:04, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Instinctive aiming (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver

)

added links pointing to

Archer

Jacques van Meegeren (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added links pointing to Dutch and Brazilian

International Planetary Data Alliance (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Planetary

Johan Jakobsson (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Swedish

Log bucking (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to

Sawmills

My Medical Education (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to English

S Murali (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Sketching

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:08, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. When you recently edited Extensor tendon compartments of the wrist, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Pollicis longus (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:55, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Viking metal

Have you actually found a source stating that Bathory's Blood Fire Death has its origins in folk music? Because if not, you're going to be struggling. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I also would like to see the justification for the reliability of The Metal Bible. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I left the article in a bit of a mess, in the middle of working on it I realized I needed to leave. I'm going to improve the wording when I integrate sources that I found. So I do plan on discussing the folk influence on Viking metal, and to integrate sources, I was just interrupted this morning.

With regard to Johannes Jonsson, in my edit summary I said that his site was "praised" by academic literature. To say "praised" is incorrect, I forgot how his work was examined. He wasn't really praised, instead he was used as a source in two separate academic works by Marcus Moberg.

The first work is a draft paper for a presentation given by Moberg at a global conference on heavy metal (info can be found here). On page 6 he quotes the Metal for Jesus! site and uses it as a reference.

The second source is a book by Moberg, I think its based off of his thesis paper. (As an aside, this book is probably the most extensive look at Christian metal ever done). In it he uses Jonsson heavily as a source (examples include pages 192, 209, and 211.), and he also takes an in depth look at The Metal Bible on pages 196-198. Though I can't remember if Moberg mentions Jonsson's involvement, Jonsson was in fact the organizer and I think publisher of that project.

Also, Jonsson has written two concert reviews for

HM Magazine: [1] [2]--¿3family6 _contribs

19:24, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. When you recently edited Viking metal, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Germanic (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

A small token for your efforts

		The Music Barnstar
		A small token for your noble efforts at making music articles on Wikipedia a trusted resource for readers. Keep up the good work. Mr Pyles (talk) 00:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

December 2011 wikification barnstars!

		The Bronze Wikification Barnstar
		For wikifying 33 pages, 3family6, I award you the Bronze Wikification Barnstar! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 03:05, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

		The Working Wikifier's Barnstar
		For coming in 8th place on the leaderboard, I also award you the Working Wikifier's barnstar!!! Good job!!! :) Wilhelmina Will (talk) 03:05, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Notification

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#List of thrash_metal bandsCurb Chain (talk) 04:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Wikify March Mini Drive

Hi there! I thought you might be interested in the March Mini Special Wikification Drive, from March 8 to 23, 2012. We're currently recruiting help to clear a massive backlog (21,500+ articles), and we need your help to keep it down at 20,000! Participants in the drive will receive barnstars for their contributions! If you have a spare moment, please join and wikify an article or tell your friends. Thanks!

Delivered by

WikiProject Wikify

18:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 14

Hi. When you recently edited Team Sityodtong, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages West Chester, Ohio and Somerville (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:26, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at

Articles for creation

grading scheme

to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to

Articles for Creation

.

• If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk
• If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

Aaron Booth (talk) 05:09, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I love English

The phrase you added here, as "way in" is from a boxing term: to weigh-in.

I may not say it enough, but thanks for your work on the hard Christian genres on Wikipedia. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:23, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Ha! Yeah, that was a mistake on my part, I've almost done that with this particular phrase several times, but I usually catch myself. I obviously missed it this time.

You're welcome.--¿3family6 _contribs 02:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK

Yeah, I fixed the issue.--WillC 05:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Chaos & Warfare

DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs

Hi. When you recently edited Avant-garde metal, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page All That Remains (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 13:23, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Happy Easter, 3family6! Hope your day is great! :) Like my singing? Ha-la-la-la-la-la-LA-LAAA!!! (talk) 10:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Just to let you know that your work is appreciated :-) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks!--¿3family6 _contribs 00:59, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

"neither source is used for that claim"

Look at the edit that put the claim into the article. I'll quote it for you: "As for the loose definition of screamo, see reference #7 and #55"

PaganPanzerfaust (talk) 16:33, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't see which edit you're talking about, but I didn't go that far back through the history. The statement and source you are removing though is not ref #7 or #55. I'm thinking that the numbers have changed, probably because sources were moved in the article or new refs were added. The statement you have been removing is sourced by ref #6 (which makes me think the numbers have changed). I've been suspicious of the reliability of that source for a while, I'm putting up a questionable tag.--¿3family6 _contribs 00:26, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi. When you recently edited Lake Rachael, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Swimming (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello. I'm not going to make the so called "editor war" or whatever, I just want to understand your point. In my opinion if the creators of the genre started out as sludge, this should be noted in the style's origins. What else are the origins if not the music background of the founders? Plus - I listen to this kind of music and all I see is most of the bands described also as sludge metal or atmospheric sludge metal - there surely is some overlapping that should be noted too.Xr 1 (talk) 13:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for asking for clarification, I wish more people did that. The origins section is for what styles of music that the genre/style in question developed out of. Yes, the founders of post-metal (maybe excluding Helmet, I don't know enough about that band) are sourced as sludge, but no sources have been provided that post-metal itself came out of sludge. It's a subtle but very crucial difference. The styles do overlap, and this is mentioned in the article, but we need a definitive source saying that post-metal came out of sludge. I know that it did, but I third-party reliable source has to state this.--¿3family6 _contribs 16:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for you answer, I'm happy that we are arguing but not fighting. I understand what you are saying, but I still think that if Neurosis laid the ground for what's to come and Oceanic by Isis is the first post-metal album which everyone is inspired by, their influnces are what's important. However, as I said, I'm not going to add sludge again and again. Xr 1 (talk) 07:58, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, and thanks again for not making a huge deal out of this. I understand where you are coming from, it's just that making that jump is

original synthesis. The big problem with argument you have put forward is that Helmet and Tool are also cited as pioneers, and as far a I know they did not really embrace sludge.--¿3family6 _contribs

11:42, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I actually haven't paid much attention to those bands in particular. That was my mistake. I suggest some brief mentioning about Neurosis and Isis being related to the sludge scene - I didn't see it exactly specified in the article.Xr 1 (talk) 14:08, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

The article doesn't exactly mention them. Right now the article says: "As a label, some see post-metal as redundant, since some bands listed as post-metal contain many elements similar to doom metal, progressive metal, sludge metal, and stoner metal." If you have verifiable material on Isis and Neurosis being sludge (this is probably on their articles), than go ahead and create a small mention.--¿3family6 _contribs 17:43, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I used the sources I previously put in the talk page, I think they are reliable - the source about Isis is from AllMusic's review, and now the article says "Although Neurosis and Godflesh appeared earlier and display elements befitting post-metal, Isis, who like Neurosis[7] were involved in the sludge metal scene,[8] are often credited with laying down the conventions and definition of the genre in less nebulous terms, with their release of Oceanic in 2002.[9]" I used "were" because they broke up.Xr 1 (talk) 20:55, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Looks good.--¿3family6 _contribs 01:20, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello. I'm actually familiar with

Sorry, I was a little overzealous and unfamiliar with these sources. Actually, I'm glad to hear that Powermetal.de is reliable, because it often shows up a lot in my searches for sources and could potentially be very valuable. Thanks,--¿3family6 _contribs 23:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi. When you recently edited Noise in music, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page My Bloody Valentine (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:26, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah i see so Metalcore is a heavier form of metal, Hardcore Punk a heavier form of Punk with screamed and Screamo heavier version of emo? Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 17:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2ndEricdeaththe2nd (talk) 17:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Almost. Metalcore is a heavier form of metal mixed with hardcore, or vice versa. But other than that, yes.--¿3family6 _contribs 19:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think I'm trying to accomplish anything. I would love to be able to do something about the utter tripe on the page (and others), but it goes a bit deeper than just arguing about the content; it's Wikipedia's rules that are the problem. I think we need to be more judgemental regarding reliable sources, because some of them present legitimate misinformation. Sadly, I can't do anything about this; the problem should be brought up somewhere higher up, but I'm not going to be able to change Wikipedia policy. I feel powerless; the most I can do is vandalise pages to let off some steam.

I'll stop the vandalism, but aside from that I have no idea what to do about this stuff. --LordNecronus (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

That's no excuse for vandalism, and thank you for desisting. Are there any particular pieces of information or listings on the avant-garde metal page that are a problem?--¿3family6 _contribs 17:27, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I could bring up specific bands (and I did ages ago in the case of Pentagram), but I don't think it would really get to the heart of the issue. Basically, my problem is that bands are being added simply if a source refers to them as "avant-garde metal" or "experimental metal", regardless of whether the source is written by an expert on the style or not, whether the source has anything to do with metal or not, or whether the source actually explains how the artist in question is experimental/avant-garde or not. I think we should look at the source and then compare the artist being referred to as part of the genre to the reliably-sourced definition we already have on the article ("it is characterized by the use of innovative, avant-garde elements, large-scale experimentation, and the use of non-standard and unconventional sounds, instruments, song structures, playing styles, and vocal techniques") to see if they fit; but, of course, that involves questioning

WP:RS, and in order to actually make this article somewhat accurate and non-contradictory, I'd need to try and convince higher-ups to alter the reliable source rule... not that they'll listen. --LordNecronus (talk

) 19:30, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I understand. If a band has only one passing mention, that isn't always enough to get it listed, so even if a reliable source calls it avant-garde or experimental metal, you could challenge the band being listed if that is the only mention. If you think a source is unreliable, you should definitely challenge it.--¿3family6 _contribs 19:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi. When you recently edited Collela Mazee, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Nyanza (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:26, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

It seems someone has removed Cello Metal as well as other edits that may not have consensus. I don't know the subject well enough or what consensus has been reached. You or others familiar with the article may wish to go over it again.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll go over it. I'm not sure about all of the consensus, as I've only been watching this page for about six months, but I'll make sure nothing strange was done to the article.--¿3family6 _contribs 21:10, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Strange? Wikipedia? No such thing! Except maybe the April 3, 2012 edit to Got Milk? You are very welcome by the way.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Casliber (talk · contribs