User talk:Antarctic-adventurer/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Welcome!

Hello, Antarctic-adventurer, and

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a

Hello, thank you for your articles! It was really nice surprize today. The main notable thing you should know is not to use a word "subclade" in taxobox (every subclade is also a normal clade). All other this were only details less or more according to my opinion. 1 and 2) gallery, There is not necessary mention the caption "gallery". Everybody can see what it is. When images are as separate images, they better fit into article in the process of expansion. You can have 1 or two images in taxobox according to your wish; I only wanted to add detailed image into taxobox. Feel free to rearrange or continuously rearrange images according to your wish. (Generally I use galleries only when reasonable. In most ways I trie to not use them.) 3) Not need to announce, but if you will start some species article, it would be goos to have wikilink from its genus article (or from its family article), so readers cold find it more easily somehow. If you will start something what is interesting, add it to Portal:Gastropods (there are no rules and feel free to add newly described species or anything interesting). If you will start articles with at least 1500 characters during about a week, nominate it at Template talk:Did you know so it could appear on the main wikipedia page at "Did you know..." section. I am not good at English (feel free to improve my grammar), I like editing land and freshwater gastropods. I can help with looking for free images and/or free texts of all gastropods. Have a nice day. --Snek01 (talk) 22:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I have formated references to inline citations (This shows which specific part of the article a citation is being applied to., see Wikipedia:Citing sources). I have removed the external link which already was in references (to not be dubious). (But it is possible to have a link in "External links" which is in "References" already. Maybe there could be reason for it sometimes.) - But it was some other article than you mentioned. --Snek01 (talk) 23:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Replied on user's talk Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 15:36, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

• ad names: Wikipedia:WikiProject Gastropods/Guidelines
• ad links: link was redundant, was already in references. When link will not be in references, then you can provide detailed link to certain article specific topis (for example to certain species). For more info you can see Wikipedia:External links, but generally reading its summary will be enough: "External links in an article can be helpful to the reader, but they should be kept minimal, meritable, and directly relevant to the article."

--Snek01 (talk) 00:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcome! A very big WELCOME to WikiProject Gastropods for Antarctic-adventurer! We are delighted that you decided to join the Project, and the nudibranchs are very happy to be getting more coverage! Thank you for the articles you have already created; you really hit the ground running! I made this welcome template specially for you, because we needed something like this. Hope you like it. All very best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 22:47, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Nice work, Antarctic-adventurer! Both the prose and the images are very good quality. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 15:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, no problem, it sounds like a plan! All best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 00:26, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

File:Father Winter Solstice.jpg

Hannukah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia

, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{

subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec09

}} to your friends' talk pages.

Best wishes to you, Invertzoo (talk) 23:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Tips for better standards:

• Add rather only original description reference to taxobox. [1]
• Add templates commonscat and wikispecies directly behind the "External links" section name.
• Add template commonscat only when there is exact the same category at Commons. Do not add links from species article to genus category at commons.
• Add wikilinks to exact malacological authorities. You will many of them in
  Malacologist article and also in 2,400 years of malacology, 6th ed.

--Snek01 (talk) 23:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 23:43, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a better photo of Fiona pinnata?

Thanks so much Arctic-adventurer for all this very good work you are doing. I am not really any kind of nudibranch expert, I am better on the shelled species, but I think that this duplicate name was probably taken from the A.W.B. Powell book which is listed as a reference. I say that because the person who started the article unfortunately was not very expert and usually he just copied species after species from that book verbatim, which is why all his articles were tagged with copyvio back in March of this year and had to have a lot of their content removed. Of course that person might also have made an error in copying the name I suppose. To get an article erased we have to ask an admin, and I usually ask User:JoJan, who is the person who started WikiProject Gastropods back in 2004. Although before you ask JoJan to delete that article, you might transfer any valid info into the other article first, such as the size in mm and anything else which might be useful. When you ask JoJan to delete it, explain that it is a duplicate. You will find more than one message on JoJan's talk page from me asking him to delete similar extra articles. Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 21:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I was looking at the articles you started on 16th December and I had a comment. When you say that these various species of nudibranchs eat

Seascapeza (talk) 19:17, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I would be most grateful if you could remove the parentheses you have added for format's sake. As I said, I have been undoing your added paretheses where I have found them and have been able to verify the actual attribution. Where it has seemed clear that all you had done was add parentheses, I simply undid, but have held back on undoing more complex edits -- I have no wish to undo your useful additions and don't think I have undone any useful changes so far. If I have, humble apologies. Thanks for your input!

regards Seascapeza (talk) 19:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh thanks so much for doing that. I have to confess I was dreading doing the bracket revision myself -- a decidely non trivial task! I live at the southern tip of the Cape Peninsula and spend a lot of time underwater here yes ... the marine life and biodiversity here fascinates me. Though every now and then I go and dive in the tropics -- this year it was Madagascar and the Philippines, not sure on next year's plans.

I see you're based in Japan -- do you also dive? And if I may be indulged in curiosity: your user name -- have you been there?

best wishes Seascapeza (talk) 07:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Wow! DMing in Indonesia must have been amazing -- I have only spent two weeks there diving so far (Lembeh Straits and Raja Ampat) and it was awesome -- not so awesome that I wanted to move from Cape Town, but... well it's very nice to dive in 29degree waters from time to time and the biodiversity there is just fantastic.

Antarctica is one of my major interests, I have also been there but only to the 'Banana Belt', so rather envious of your Ross shelf trip... and planning to climb Vinson.. well that'll be wonderful I am sure. A couple of friends and I are trying to arrange a trip on the South African supply ship to dive Antarctica -- unfortunately the South African Antarctic base only does astro and geo sciences so we can't stay there but are hoping to do marine census work on the resupply trip to

A friend of mine went and dived Truk on a rebreather expedition earlier this year -- you can see his images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtresfon/collections/72157621854137925/

For my part I am looking forward to diving again next week, since right now I'm landlocked and trying to cope with a very slow internet connection, so being home will be superb.

best wishes to you Seascapeza (talk) 16:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Jnpet. I saw your edit to the article Chromodoris willani today whereby you switched the photos around. I am not saying I disagree with your choice, but I am curious as to the rationale to your change. The other image that was there previously seemed to be much crisper when zoomed. Best wishes. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 07:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I just felt the original picture was better, especially the way the subject is placed. I've reverted the edit. Jnpet (talk) 13:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello, do you know this? http://www.theveliger.org/archive.html especially http://www.theveliger.org/nudibranch_food.html Feel free to use it as a reference like this [2]. --Snek01 (talk) 15:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Snek! I hadn't come across that page. It is really useful! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 14:26, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

A good choice! I am not sure what I celebrate, I guess it's a Winter Solstice/Yule thing really, but if I could go to the Mediterranean and celebrate Saturnalia that sounds like the best choice! Invertzoo (talk) 20:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

		Merry Christmas and a happy New Year
		I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy New Year 2010. May your cooperation to the gastropods project be as fruitful as it was in the past. Having said that, I'll uncork a bottle of champagne and let it flow freely. I hope you'll do as well. Happy Holidays!! JoJan (talk) 17:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks JoJan! The same to you too. See you around on wikipedia in 2010.

Hi AA, I just was looking at the genus article and the species article. I don't have any access to the relevant literature at all, and so I could be completely wrong on this, and if so then please forgive me, but the species name mirocoronata struck me as unusual, and I was wondering if it is actually supposed to be "microcoronata", meaning tiny crown. It is spelled that way here [3] for what that's worth. (But that and a

OK! Now I am certain you are right. Also, silly me, I didn't notice it was spelled mirocornata, strange horn, not as I had imagined mirocoronata, strange crown. Sorry to pester you... Live and learn! Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 14:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi AA, I see that you are a Scuba diver and underwater photographer, so I would like to invite you to take a look at the dive guide project on WikiTravel such as the Cape Town regional guide at Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay. I am trying to encourage other divers to contribute on regional guides and site guides such as Coral Gardens (Oudekraal) for areas that they know. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 19:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

The idea is to contribute where you can. Your photos suggest you could do something with Philippines, or maybe Japan. There are no guides for diving in those areas yet, so just go ahead and start them. If you let me know when you do so I can help with formatting if you like. Just start with a name like "Diving in the Philippines" and use the substitution template {{subst:DiveRegion}} to establish the structure, Then fill in what you can and leave the rest for someone else. If you have enough detail to justify a sub-article on any specific site, use the {{subst:Divesite}} template from inside the main guide in the "See" section. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 07:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Dear Antarctic-adventurer,

Our vision for Wikipedia is one of beauty, natural symmetry and light.

I wish you a Happy New Year, everything good for your family, your loved ones and yourself, peace and joy for all the people of the world. I also wish a joyful and peaceful expansion for Wikipedia, may it bring helpful, generous, and peaceful information to everyone in the world.
All the very best from Invertzoo (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

What can happen when your slide film and your scanner disagree ... I'm hoping that 2010 produces serendipity when technology baulks, rather than drama!

Have you actually been to Tristan?

Best wishes Seascapeza (talk) 05:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your note and hey, no problem, I definitely think of you as active! Invertzoo (talk) 17:27, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Antarctic-adventurer, regarding this I just thought I'd pop by to let you know that Oakleaf is no longer part of the RFA, and she is currently awaiting disposal at HMNB Portsmouth. See also: [4]
Kindest regards, Spitfire^Tally-ho! 14:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Antarctic-adventurer, I just came across one of your articles at newpage patrol, and as you clearly seem to have got the hang of our policies on verifiability and notability I have set your account as an

As for your question on new additions, yes, we do have one very helpful resource. There is a bot (AlexNewArtBot) which searches new articles and generates for us (and it does it too for various other projects) a constantly updated list of new articles that mention key words such as snail, slug, gastropod, conch, limpet, etc. The search results for our project are listed here: [5]. The results are a couple of days out of date, and plus also sometimes the bot breaks down and stops for a few days, but nonetheless this is extremely useful information and I greatly value it. For example, I can see if someone new has contributed a new gastropod-related article, and that way I can go and welcome them to Wikipedia, thank them, and invite them to join the project. That's one reason why we have had so many new members sign up over the last year. (AlexNewArtBot does also pulls up articles that mention "slug" in the sense of bullet, and similar non-relevant things, but that's OK.) I am also able to see at a glance if a listed new gastropod article has a red-linked talk page, and if it does that means the talk page doesn't yet have the gastropod project template on it, and therefore the article needs that template adding so it can be counted and analyzed in our statistics.

Also, you may already know this, but it is possible to look at any editor's list of contributions to see what they have been doing recently. I don't do that routinely though. If you are not sure how to do that, please just ask me.

All good wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 15:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Your work is really exemplary, Antarctic-adventurer. As far as I am concerned everything you've done here has been really good, so please go ahead and do whatever you like; I'm sure it will be great! As for gastropod articles and lists that Graham Bould created, well, it's quite likely that the names for the nudibranchs date from

By the way, when it comes to families, check and make sure that the families you are using are listed in Taxonomy of the Gastropoda (Bouchet & Rocroi, 2005), but if a scientific paper has come out after 2005 which creates a new family, that can be referenced too.

As for the Loy article, to be honest, my memory is not so good on that kind of thing because I do it without thinking, but I believe what happened was that I saw you had created two new articles that were listed by AlexNewArtBot ( I call that page "GasBot"), and then I went to your contributions to see what you had been doing since then, because I figured that you had probably created some more. You do know how to look at someone's contributions list, right? If not, say so and I will tell you how to do that.

So, about your P.S.: when you create a species list to go on a genus page, it is in fact best to either take it all from one source, or if you have to use more than one source to compile it, to list them all, as in-line citations. It is tempting to try to make a sort of "synthesis" from various sources, but that almost counts as "original research", which we aren't allowed to have here on WIkipedia, so we have to be careful how far we go with that sort of thing.

A very fine, first-rate malacologist friend of mine, Gary Rosenberg at the

Anyway, I'd better go see what I need to do for dinner now... Best wishes Invertzoo (talk) 23:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello. I'm looking for an image for Discodoris, but am confused, as usual. Commons has these, but they are synonyms. Would you have one laying around, say, on your coffee table? All the best to you, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:06, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Anna, nice to hear from you. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of any Discodoris as I have never seen a nudi from that genus in real life. I took a look at flickr but although there are many images, none are in the commons, (and most are for the re-assigned Peltodoris atromaculata anyway and therefore incorrectly named there). So I am afraid I can't help you. I am going to Bali in a few weeks and plan to take some more nudi pics and upload them to the commons. Let's hope I find one! (Although I am not actually sure of their distribution). Thanks for asking though. We need a lot more nudibranch photos... Incidentally, I have a question for you. I noticed that you have created a lot of nudibranch species stubs of late. This is exactly what I am working on at the moment so great to have two people doing it. Are you using some kind of bot per chance? Given the time that some of them were created, so close together, I can't imagine you were doing it manually? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 07:11, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Well, if you do encounter some new Discodoris down there, do take and snapshot or two.

I just recently started making stubs with an AWB plugin called CSVLoader. It's really cool. I can't remember how I made the Discos, but if you see their creation dates close together, it is because I prep them in editing programs and then paste them to new articles. I check them all out and then click save, move to new tab, click save, move to new tab, etc. That's why the creation dates are close. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:52, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I have started Shintarō Hirase article. It may be useful to know, that his works published in Japan are public domain. --Snek01 (talk) 22:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Gastropods for a Signpost article to be published in early May. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Also, if you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 19:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Antarctic-adventurer,

Gymnodoris nigricolor appear to be parasitic on gobies! Take a look at this SeaSlugForum page:

http://www.seaslugforum.net/message/2131

And this one:

http://www.seaslugforum.net/message/5867

and this page:

http://www.rfbolland.com/okislugs/gobynudi.html

And this one:

http://slugsite.us/bow/nudwk295.htm

This weird association would make a nice article and a good DYK too. What do you think?

Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 21:48, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello, thank you very much for the reference. Is the type locality of

From the first page of the English version it says: "Type loc:- Kasimanada 600m depth" There are different ways to romanize Japanese, for example the character 「し」 can be rendered as "shi" or "si", with the former being more common today. The pronounciation is much closer to the English "shi" hence the prevalence of its use in modern writing with English being so dominant. Consequently I would think it is the same as

Hepburn system and Kunrei-shiki romanization for notes on romanized Japanese. I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any further questions. Cheers Antarctic-adventurer (talk)

11:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, thank you for romanization checking. --Snek01 (talk) 17:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi again Antarctic-adventurer, Thanks for your nice note. Yes all is pretty much OK in gastropod land. I am working on some new papers based on my April/May trip this year. Nice to hear from you and glad you are doing well. I envy you the SE Asia dive trip!

As for learning more about DYKs, the nomination list of possible future DYKs is here: [7]. As you can see, there are many submissions without a photo. When you submit a nomination, the article concerned has to be a minimum of 1,500 characters long. It has to be no more than 5 days old when it is nominated (or it has to have been 5 times expanded from what it was before.) Usually it is a good idea to prep the new article on a subpage of your user page, so that you can cut and paste it as a brand new article when you feel you are ready. The fact or facts that are used in the DYK "hook" must be supported in the article with an online citation to a reliable ref. There have to be enough refs in the article to make it look respectable, not just one. The "hook" that you come up for the DYK with has to be less than 200 characters long. It's a little bit hard at first to do a DYK submission, but it gets quite easy once you have done it a few times.

As for your question about getting images from other people, I don't know much about that and so I will refer you to a very nice editor (a WP friend) who is expert in copyright issues, User:Moonriddengirl.

All the very best, Invertzoo (talk) 13:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Antarctic-adventurer. You have new messages at Moonriddengirl's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

This is an automated message from

No copyvio present. Article was flagged up due to the long journal article reference which confused the bot. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 11:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Hypselodoris alboterminata, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://seaslugsofhawaii.com/species/Hypselodoris-alboterminata-a.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.)

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on

No copyvio present. Article was probably flagged up due to the long journal article reference which confused the bot. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 15:09, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words Antarctic-Adventurer. Really it is User:Mbz1 who took the very nice photos and wrote the original draft of the article. Mbz1 is a really amazing photographer. English is not her first language, so I often fix up and partially rewrite some of her DYK-nominated articles, and in the process I sometimes end up researching the subject a little bit and adding to the article too. This subject was something that I didn't know anything about, so I had to learn a lot, and fast! This spring I helped Mila with Fata Morgana (mirage) which ended up being quite a popular hook as a DYK. In fact it seems that Mila could keep me busy all of the time with new articles, and they are often on very interesting subjects, but I need time to work on the gastropods too! Invertzoo (talk) 20:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Ed talks about real-world collaborations and how you can help

To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section

Hey there Antarctic-adventurer, thank you for your contributions. I am a

• See a log of files removed today here.

• Shut off the bot here.

• Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:03, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Antarctic-adventurer. You have new messages at Anna Frodesiak's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Marine Biology Barnstar I award this Marine Biology Barnstar to Antarctic-adventurer for all his hard work creating numerous new articles (and making improvements to pre-existing articles) about nudibranchs. You certainly should not have had to wait so long for this recognition. WikiProject Gastropods thanks you extensively. More power to you! Best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 21:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Wow, fantastic! My first ever barnstar. I'll take it as extra impetus to create all the remaining nudibranch articles still to go! Thank you very much. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

You totally deserve it, and it was overdue already. I choose this star because I thought it was a particularly handsome and colorful one. Enjoy your work on ships. Always take your time and enjoy contributing to Wikipedia in whatever way strikes you as fun from day to day. Actually... anything that has to do with the sea (and with water in general) is good by me; I am a water worm! Thanks to you too! Invertzoo (talk) 00:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I was born and grew up in

Ah Hayes, London Borough of Bromley, yes I know it. It has indeed been swallowed up by London. I should imagine it is quite different now to when you lived there. Unfortunately, I have never been to Down House, I have been in Asia for over 8 years now and I don't get back all that much. I definitely want to visit at some point in the future though. 2009 was 'Darwin year' as I am sure you know, there we so many great TV programmes out that year from the BBC, Attenborough, Dawkins and others, so I have at least 'seen' it on screen! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 05:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

We lived only about 5 miles away from Down House, and we used to go and visit about twice a year all through my childhood. Although I gathered he was a biologist and a naturalist, as well as a hero of some sort, my parents didn't understand enough to be able to explain to me what it was that Mr. Darwin discovered; I was 13 before I came to understand natural selection, which, like the periodic table of the elements, seemed to me to be a magic key that unlocked all the mysteries of the natural world. Down House was a museum of course, but even then it was set up as the home it used to be, as if the Darwins still lived there, so as a small child it seemed to me almost as if we were visiting relatives who were mysteriously always out when we came to see them, but didn't mind us traipsing through their home. When I was there on a visit at about age 10, out of the blue a docent allowed me to play the piano in Darwin's living room, an extraordinary and magical moment which I still treasure and which would of course never be allowed to happen today. Invertzoo (talk) 11:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

You played on Darwin's piano?! Wow. Indeed that would be rather unlikely indeed these days. I have heard stories of a similar ilk from my father of England in the 1950's, and the things he got to do which seem unbelievable in today's climate. I think we can see where your penchant for biology began! What an auspicious way to become interested, at THE very man's house himself. Great story, thank you for telling it. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 15:58, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Darwin's wife and daughters used to play that piano, not Mr. D himself, but it was still extraordinary to be sitting in his living room playing the piano like that with the light streaming in the window from the really huge back garden where his

Invertzoo has given you a kitten! Kittens promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Kittens must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{subst:Kittynap}}

In your edit of 08:53, 27 March 2011 you added the claim that the Trafalgar had a propeller not a propulsor. What is the source for this claim?--Toddy1 (talk) 22:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Toddy. Thanks for your message. I have added a source on the page, (see here: [8]), which will do for the time being until I dig out some other published works I have which also state this. (I am away from my library at the moment). If it eases your mind, I know from personal experience that it is true, but naturally sources are paramount for the integrity of WP and there is no original research allowed. I think this should be enough for the time being. Let me know if you have any further comments. (P.S. I see from your userpage that you don't speak English and you also don't speak Ukranian. ;) Do you actually live in the Ukraine? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 09:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I hope that you will soon find better sources than this website. If you look at this old version of the article you will see that it too made the claim that the Trafalgar did not have a propulsor.--Toddy1 (talk) 11:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the link to the previous version. Yes it does state that, although there was no source given at all on that page, so there is a difference. I am away on business at the moment, but I will dig out the link with further sources as soon as I can. Best Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 12:40, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

• When you find other sources that state that the Trafalgar had a propeller instead of a propulsor please look to see if they make similar claims to that paragraph. If they do, then you will know for sure that they are wrong and have muddled the Trafalgar class with the Swiftsure class.
• I note that the Airfix kit of the Trafalgar class submarines has a propeller for the Trafalgar and a propulsor for the rest. See http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/sutra266758.php
• If you look at older Jane's Fighting Ships (e.g. 1988-89) you will see that they mention that the Trafalgar class had a 'pump jet propulsor" (p649), and do not mention this feature on the Swiftsure class (p650). Similarly, the entry for the Valiant and Churchill classes (p651) does not mention the Churchill having this feature either. So it is easy to see why people imagined that the Trafalgar class was the first class to have a propulsor; if people knew that the first boat of the class with propulsors was fitted with a propeller instead (which was the case with the Swiftsure), they might have wrongly assumed that this was the Trafalgar.
• The book Damned Un-English Machines, a history of Barrow-built submarines, by Jack Hool and Keith Nutter mentions the Churchill and all the Swiftsure class except the Swiftsure having propulsors; it makes no mention of the Trafalgar having a propeller; instead it says that the Trafalgar class have/had propulsors. If the Trafalgar had really been like the Swiftsure and had a propeller, then I would have expected this book to have mentioned it.--Toddy1 (talk) 14:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

You raise some good points here Toddy. I will see what I can dig up. A picture of HMS Trafalgar out of the water would settle this once and for all, but I don't know of one. I'll re-visit this when I get back home. Admittedly this is a tricky issue. When pump-jets were first installed on RN subs, it was a subject that the navy tried not to talk about much for reasons of national security, so disinformation was common. When I was in the RN, I had a conversation with the CO of one of the V-boats who denied categorically that they were fitted with propulsors, even though I know for a FACT that they are, (I have seen it with my own eyes among other things) so it is easy to see why there is confusion. Thanks for the great link to the airfix page by the way, I will have to try and get hold of that kit for myself! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 17:58, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Have you had time yet to consult the books you mentioned to see what they said about the Swiftsure class having propulsors? You will recall that the Swiftsures were designed for propulsors, but the first of class had a propellor. Earlier versions of the article on the Trafalgar class suggest that some authors may have wrongly stated that the Trafalgars were the first class with propulsors, and then stated the first of class had a propellor - i.e. getting the two classes confused.--Toddy1 (talk) 10:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Can I call you Ant? Please don't add comments to archives, as you did here. Archives are just that - a record of the discussion as it stood. Adding comments to archives during on-going discussions would risk charges of attempting to alter the record of consensus, although I think it's pretty clear you didn't mean to do so in this case. Shem (talk) 16:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Lol, Ant is fine by me. Actually, when I posted that I didn't notice that it was an archive, otherwise I wouldn't have left a message. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 16:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I thought it worth mentioning, even if just to explain why I removed the comment. Happy editing - Shem (talk) 17:12, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Please can you add citations for the decommissioning dates for UK nuclear submarines that you have added.--Toddy1 (talk) 05:08, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing Toddy, but which dates that I added are you referring to? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 05:14, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

My understanding is that you added some of the decommissioning dates to the following articles:

Swiftsure class submarine. This suggests that you have a source for the information.--Toddy1 (talk

) 05:57, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes, thanks. Actually what I did was copy the decommissioning dates from the individual boat pages which were already there, and added them to the respective class pages. I just had a look and none of those dates are sourced either. I will check one of my submarine sources and add appropriate references. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 17:38, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

There's no reference on the Template and its not listed onthe RN's web page. I would like a reliable source citation. Other dictionaries are better (talk) 21:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Foxhound. Thanks for your message. It is true that there is no reference embedded in the template, but if you look at the article pages for each T-boat submarine and the class page you will see a reference '1' next to the "General characteristics" opening of the infobox. This is the reference for all the facts contained therein. This reference is Jane's fighting ships, and is the source for all the T-boat general characteristics information, including that for the mines. I can send you a scan should you wish. Best wishes Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Can't find it. Can you show? And is Jane's up-to-date? I thought the UK signed some mines treaty prohibiting the usage of mines.Other dictionaries are better (talk) 20:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

See here 1. The reference is from 2004-2005 but I haven't seen any changes elsewhere. The UK did sign a land-mine treaty but I don't think it applies at sea. The RN page for the T-boats may not mention them, but that isn't generally a reliable guide to anything as the RN is often incomplete in its details. Also note that it says only that "mines can be carried", which doesn't mean that they necessarily 'are' carried in practice. It is simply stating a capability. Regards Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 05:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

see this [9] especially the House of Commons statement. They reatain the capability but that doesn't mean they have mines in lieu of torpedoes. Janes can be wrong.And i don't think the statement "Mines can be carried in lieu of torpedoes" fits if the [[10] subs weaponary do not have mines stated. Furtheremore, I can't view the Janes entry--no link Other dictionaries are better (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a moot point - the RN has no sea mines. Like Sub Harpoon, mines would be a potential fit - if there were any. Shem (talk) 18:40, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Shem.Other dictionaries are better (talk) 18:45, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

OK thanks for the link Foxhound. I didn't know that the RN mines had been retired. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 10:25, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Dank helps you see what article writers want from reviewers

To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Buggie111 discusses neutral point of view

To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section

Hi Antarctic-adventurer. It depends on your definition of standard! It is a somewhat esoteric procedure and I must confess that I only heard about it recently. I suppose a little bit of context is required: I've been trying to rid content categories of pages that are in user space (See:

Thanks for your reply and detailed explanation. It sounds reasonable indeed. However, whichever administrator actually does the move from my user space would have to look through the history of my drafts page, and then only move the history from the point where I began creating that specific article. (Is that possible?) Otherwise the wiki article-page (In this case the Ol-class Tanker) would have a history of events there were totally unrelated to the subject, as I have re-used my drafting page before for different things.

And on that note, next time I make a draft, if I do the move as you suggest rather than copy & paste when the article is ready, wouldn't that move then cause the entire history of that page to be included, including all the unrelated edits and other articles from the beginning of my drafting page? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 10:21, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Good question(s). Your case was fairly simple (as far as I remember) since the userspace page was started for the purpose of the tanker draft and since you were also the creator of the article space page. What happens for more complicated cases is, well, complicated and you'd have to ask someone more competent or try to make sense of the instructions at

Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves. One possibility is to avoid a complicated history merge and simply use the template {{Copied}}. I recently had a conversation with Erik Haugen on the subject (which shows that I'm still somewhat confused about the whole subject). Cheers, Pichpich (talk

) 13:10, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, an admin has just done the move but now my page

Ol class tanker (1965)! How do I get my page back?! For what it's worth, I don't really see the benefit of merging draft page histories in all cases. The article history now has a series of entries that are nothing to do with the article itself (I played around with the texting for a while and copied text from other similar articles to help me learn how to write a ship article), so the move wouldn't seem to contribute much. If anything it may create confusion? Is this really the normal procedure? Thanks for taking the effort to reply to my questions. Antarctic-adventurer (talk)

15:07, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the question but if I do, your page hasn't disappeared. It's still here as a redirect and its history is now part of the tanker article. You can still edit it as usual and whatever you write there will not affect the other article. In other words, a normal cycle would be to draft an article in your userspace, move it to the article space when you're done, write a draft on a new topic at that same userspace location, move it to the article space, etc. Cheers, Pichpich (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Those moves should be by proper Wikipedia page-moving, not cut-and-paste. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:46, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

• Many history-merges from user draft to permanent article, including this one, were called for by
  Ol class tanker (1965): see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ol_class_tanker_%281965%29&action=history . Anthony Appleyard (talk
  ) 15:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

OK I understand. How do I get my drafting page back though? At the moment, when I click on User:Antarctic-adventurer/Subpage for drafting it takes me to the Ol class tanker page. What do I have to do to have that link go back to my drafting page? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 07:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Just to let you know i've updated the external links (Royal Navy) on the each of the Trafalgar Class subs--especially since the RN web site was recently updated. You may wish to check a change them according to norns.Other dictionaries are better (talk) 14:57, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Foxhound. All looks good! The RN updates their site from time to time and links get broken when it happens. Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 15:25, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Antarctic-adventurer. I noticed your request for adoption, is it still active? You seem pretty experienced on Wikipedia, but if you'd still like to be adopted, I'm happy to help out. (I've been mentoring for a while, and run

Well, you can consider yourself adopted. I'm sure I can help out with getting you into the inner workings of Wikipedia. Generally, I suggest that my adoptees run through my "Adoption school", it teaches you the important basics of wikipedia (based on my personal opinion). Since it does go into many different areas of wikipedia, it might be very useful. So, I'll set you up with a personal space, you can run through the lessons at your own pace. Feel free to wander over when you like. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:23, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors – Contest results, A-class medal recipients Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Editorial: Hawkeye's thoughts on the article writing process

To begin or stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section

Hi AA, you may want to watch this video about cooking the snails. Seems to refute the idea that they are poisonous. Invertzoo (talk) 23:56, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Which video InZoo? Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 13:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear Antarctic-adventurer,

thanks for your message. I apologise for not properly signing my edits.

I am a copyeditor by trade and was cross with the language and the ambiguity, but they were tiny tiny edits - just making the meaning a little clearer.

Thanks for taking the time to help me along on this new venture.

all the best,

Frances

FrinnyGrant (talk) 19:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Well Fort Victoria and others operational history. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/07/yemen-marines-standby-evacuate-britons Cheers.78.109.182.43 (talk) 10:09, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Fort Victoria is done and the article cleaned up. I will get around to the others later and keep on the situation as it develops. Thanks again Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.