User talk:Blue Tie/Article to work/Discussion on Waterboarding Re-Write

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Here is a discussion on the waterboarding re-write


Removed Stuff

I removed this stuff from the article. It is too long, too recentist. Too US focused. Too much of various things.

From the lead

Lots of good stuff here but it needs to go in the article


form of

oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[4] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[5]

Waterboarding has been used in

terrorists
, and whether the practice was acceptable.

Contemporary use and the United States

Many reports say that intelligence officers of the United States used waterboarding to interrogate prisoners captured in its

War on Terrorism
.

The Jun 21, 2004 Issue of

Bybee memo, a 2002 legal memorandum drafted by former OLC lawyer John Yoo that described what sort of interrogation tactics against suspected terrorists or terrorist affiliates the Bush administration would consider legal, was "prompted by CIA questions about what to do with a top Qaeda captive, Abu Zubaydah, who had turned uncooperative...and was drafted after White House meetings convened by George W. Bush's chief counsel, Alberto Gonzales, along with Defense Department general counsel William Haynes and David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's counsel, who discussed specific interrogation techniques, says a source familiar with the discussions." Among the methods they found acceptable was water-boarding. [17]

In

al Qaeda
.

On

U.S. Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.[19] Reaction to the order was mixed, with the CIA satisfied that it "clearly defined" the agency's authorities, but Human Rights Watch saying that answer about what specific techniques had been banned lay in the classified companion document and that "the people in charge of interpreting [that] document don't have a particularly good track record of reasonable legal analysis."[20]

On

U.S. government to openly admit to the use of waterboarding as an interrogation technique, as of December 10, 2007.[23] [24]

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

Several accounts reported that

Hambali, the Indonesian terrorist responsible for the 2002 bombings of night clubs in Bali. According to the Bush administration, he also provided information on an Al Qaeda leader in England.[25]

During a radio interview on October 24, 2006, with Scott Hennen of radio station WDAY, Vice President Dick Cheney seemed to agree with the use of waterboarding.[26] The following are the questions and answers at issue, excerpted from the transcript of the interview:

Hennen: "…And I've had people call and say, please, let the Vice President know that if it takes dunking a terrorist in water, we're all for it, if it saves American lives. Again, this debate seems a little silly given the threat we face, would you agree?"

Cheney: "I do agree. And I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high value detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed provided us with enormously valuable information about how many there are, about how they plan, what their training processes are and so forth, we've learned a lot. We need to be able to continue that."
…
Hennen: "Would you agree a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives?"

Cheney: "Well, it's a no-brainer for me, but for a while there I was criticized as being the vice president for torture. We don't torture. That's not what we're involved in."[27]

The administration later denied that Cheney had confirmed the use of waterboarding, saying that U.S. officials do not talk publicly about interrogation techniques because they are classified. White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said that Cheney was not referring to waterboarding, but only to a "dunk in the water", prompting one reporter to ask, "So dunk in the water means, what, we have a pool now at Guantanamo and they go swimming?" Tony Snow replied, "You doing stand-up?"[28] On September 13, 2007 ABC News reported that a former intelligence officer stated that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been waterboarded in the presence of a female CIA supervisor.[29]

Captured along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a letter from bin Laden[30] which led officials to think that he knew where the Al Qaeda founder was hiding.[31]

According to sources familiar with a private interview of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he claimed to have been waterboarded five times.[25] "A CIA official told ABC News that he had been water-boarded, and had won the admiration of his interrogators because it took him two to two-and-half minutes to start confessing – well beyond the average of 14 seconds observed in others."[32] This is disputed by two former CIA officers who are reportedly friends with one of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed interrogators called this bravado, and who claimed that he was waterboarded only once. According to one of the officers, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed needed only to be shown the drowning equipment again before he "broke." "Waterboarding works," the former officer said. "Drowning is a baseline fear. So is falling. People dream about it. It’s human nature. Suffocation is a very scary thing. When you’re waterboarded, you’re inverted, so it exacerbates the fear. It’s not painful, but it scares the shit out of you." (The former officer was waterboarded himself in a training course.) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he claimed, "didn’t resist. He sang right away. He cracked real quick." He said, "A lot of them want to talk. Their egos are unimaginable. (He) was just a little doughboy. He couldn't stand toe to toe and fight it out."[25] After being subjected to waterboarding, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claimed involvement in thirty-one terrorist plots.[33]

Abu Zubaida

There have also been reports that

Abu Zubaida
was waterboarding while detained by the U.S. government.

In 2002, U.S. intelligence located Abu Zubaydah by tracing his phone calls. He was captured

safehouse located in a two story apartment in Faisalabad, Pakistan. While in U.S. custody, he was waterboarded,[34] and consequently gave a great deal of information about the 9/11 attack plot, although the veracity of some of his statements has been called into question.[35] Such information was used by the Canadian government in seeking to uphold the 'security certificate' of Mohamed Harkat. Participating in his interrogation were two American psychologists, James Elmer Mitchell and R. Scott Shumate.[36][37]

In December 2007, the Washington Post reported that there were some discrepancies regarding reports about the amount of times Zubaida was waterboarding. According to a previous account by Former CIA officer John Kiriakou, Abu Zubaida broke after just 35 seconds of waterboarding, which involved stretching cellophane over his mouth and nose and pouring water on his face to create the sensation of drowning. From the Washington Post article:

"But other former and current officials disagreed that Abu Zubaida's cooperation came quickly under harsh interrogation or that it was the result of a single waterboarding session. Instead, these officials said, harsh tactics used on him at a secret detention facility in Thailand went on for weeks or, depending on the account, even months. The videotaping of Abu Zubaida in 2002 went on day and night throughout his interrogation, including waterboarding, and while he was sleeping in his cell, intelligence officials said...The CIA has said it ceased waterboarding in 2003."[38]

  1. ^ Eban, Katherine (July 17 2007). "Rorschach and Awe". Vanity Fair. Retrieved 2007-12-17. It was terrifying," military psychologist Bryce Lefever is quoted as saying, "...you're strapped to an inclined gurney and you're in four-point restraint, your head is almost immobilized, and they pour water between your nose and your mouth, so if you're likely to breathe, you're going to get a lot of water. You go into an oxygen panic. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  2. ^ White, Josh (November 8 2007). "Waterboarding Is Torture, Says Ex-Navy Instructor". Washington Post. Retrieved 2007-12-17. As the event unfolded, I was fully conscious of what was happening: I was being tortured. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  3. gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help
    )
  4. ^ a b Various (April 5, 2006). "Open Letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales". Human Rights News. Retrieved 2007-12-18. In a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales more than 100 United States law professors stated unequivocally that waterboarding is torture, and the use of the practice is a criminal felony punishable under the U.S. federal criminal code.
  5. ^ Mayer, Jane (2005-02-14). "Outsourcing Torture". The New Yorker. Retrieved 2007-12-18. Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, told me that he had treated a number of people who had been subjected to such forms of near-asphyxiation, and he argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  6. ^ Shane, Scott (2007-11-07). "A Firsthand Experience Before Decision on Torture". New York Times. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  7. ^ Davis, Benjamin (2007-10-08). "Endgame on Torture: Time to Call the Bluff". University of Pittsburgh School of Law. Retrieved 2007-12-18. Waterboarding has been torture for at least 500 years. All of us know that torture is going on. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  8. ^ "Carter says U.S. tortures prisoners". CNN. 2007-10-10. Retrieved 2007-12-18. The United States tortures prisoners in violation of international law, former President Carter said Wednesday. 'I don't think it. I know it,' Carter told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  9. ^ "French Journalist Henri Alleg Describes His Torture Being Waterboarded by French Forces During Algerian War". Democracy Now!. 2007-11-05. Retrieved 2007-12-18. I have described the waterboarding I was submitted to. And no one can say, having passed through it, that this was not torture, especially when he has endured other types of torture—burning, electricity and beating, and so on. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  10. United States Senator and 2008 presidential candidate John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam
    , waterboarding is "torture, no different than holding a pistol to his head and firing a blank" and can damage the subject's psyche "in ways that may never heal."
  11. ^ Grey, Stephen (2006). Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program. New York, New York: St. Martin's Press. pp. 225–226. A former senior official in the directorate of operations is quoted (in full) as saying: "'Of course it was torture. Try it and you'll see.'" Another "former higher-up in the directorate of operations" said "'Yes, it's torture'".
  12. ^ Bell, Nicole (2007-11-03). "Retired JAGs Send Letter To Leahy: "Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and it is illegal."". Crooks and Liars. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |(empty string)= and |coauthors= (help) "Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and it is illegal." and "Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances.". From Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, United States Navy (Ret.) Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 2000-02; Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, United States Navy (Ret.) Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 1997-2000; Major General John L. Fugh, United States Army (Ret.) Judge Advocate General of the Army, 1991-93; Brigadier General David M. Brahms, United States Marine Corps (Ret.) Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant, 1985-88.
  13. ^ "CIA Whitewashing Torture". Human Rights Watch. 2005-11-21. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) "There is no doubt that waterboarding is torture, despite the administration’s reluctance to say so,” Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch.
  14. ^ "Amnesty International Response to Cheney's "No-Brainer" Comment". Amnesty International. 2006-10-26. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  15. ^ "History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding". World News with Charles Gibson. ABC News. 2005-11-29. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  16. ^ "Secret U.S. Endorsement of Severe Interrogations". New York Times. 2007-10-04. Retrieved 2007-12-18. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  17. ^ Hirsh, Michael (2004-06-21). "A TORTURED DEBATE: AMID FEUDING AND TURF BATTLES, LAWYERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE DISCUSSED SPECIFIC TERROR-INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES LIKE 'WATER-BOARDING' AND 'MOCK BURIALS'". Newsweek. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  18. ^ "Bush bans terror suspect torture". BBC News. 2007-07-20. Retrieved 2007-12-19. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  19. ^ Bush, George W. (2007-07-20). "Executive Order: Interpretation of the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 as Applied to a Program of Detention and Interrogation Operated by the Central Intelligence Agency". Retrieved 2007-12-19.
  20. ^ Miller, Greg (2007-07-21). "Bush Signs New CIA Interrogation Rules". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 2007-12-19. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  21. ^ "CIA Bans Waterboarding in Terror Interrogations". The Blotter. ABC News. 2007-09-14. Retrieved 2007-12-19. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  22. ^ Schumer's Epiphany, The Wall Street Journal, retrieved 2007-11-05 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
  23. ^ Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen (2007). "Waterboarding Recounted" (HTML). The Washington Post. Retrieved 2007-11-12.
  24. ^ Mark Davis (2007). "His second guess is wrong: Former CIA agent confirms that waterboarding worked but then questions its use" (HTML). The Dallas Morning News. Retrieved 2007-20-12. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
  25. ^ a b c Mayer, Jane (2007-08-13). "The Black Sites". The New Yorker. Retrieved 2007-12-19. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  26. ^ "Feeling chilled? Let your blood boil". Unbossed. 2007-10-24. Retrieved 2007-12-19. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  27. ^ "Interview of the Vice President by Scott Hennen, WDAY at Radio Day at the White House". The White House. 2006-10-24. Retrieved 2007-07-20.
  28. ^ "Press Briefing by Tony Snow". The White House. 2006-10-27. Retrieved 2007-12-19.
  29. ^ Esposito, Richard (2007-09-13). "How the CIA Broke the 9/11 Attacks Mastermind". The Blotter. ABC News. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  30. ^ "Experts: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's arrest slowed al-Qaeda". USA Today. Associated Press. 2007-03-16. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  31. ^ "Khalid Shaikh Mohammed: life of terror". CNN. 2003-09-23. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  32. ^ Gumbel, Andrew (2007-03-18). "Confession of 9/11 architect backfires on US". The Independent, UK. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  33. ^ "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's '31 plots'". BBC News. 2007-03-15. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  34. ^ "Waterboarding approved at the top, ex-agent says". Globe and Mail. 2007-12-12. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  35. ^ Hosenball, Mark (2002-04-27). "How Good Is Abu Zubaydah's Information?". Newsweek. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  36. ^ "Rorschach and Awe: As Opposition Grows Over the APA's Policy Allowing Psychologists to Take Part in Military Interrogations, Vanity Fair Exposes How Two Psychologists Shaped the CIA's Torture Methods". Democracy Now!. 2007-07-30. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  37. ^ "The Destroyed CIA Torture Tapes & Psychologists". Democracy Now!. 2007-12-10. Retrieved 2007-12-20. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  38. ^ Dan Eggen and Walter Pincus, FBI, CIA Debate Significance of Terror Suspect Washington Post, Tuesday, December 18, 2007, A01
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