User talk:Cloudbound/Archive 1

Hi! I apologise for the delay; I didn't want to take time for this until I really had some. A user named Mike18xx has effectively hijacked the "Second-class citizen" article. It appears any change made to it by another person is promptly (and repeatedly) reverted by him, with needless POV commentary and personal attacks on the posters, both in summaries and on the talk page. I felt bad enough when he started in on me; once he saw I would no longer play his game, he started it with others.

I wrote the original article together with Marskell. I understand that once posted, an article is fair game for editing, but Mike18xx's ungroomed writing style, his wholly unprofessional attitude, his multiple reverts, and his consistently nasty, insulting comments are each a detriment to this article, and to Wikipedia as a whole, as far as I can see. (Not to mention his advocation of flaming IP addresses, on the article's talk page.)

I would like to attempt to clean things up once more, and possibly have the article edit-protected; the list of historical examples (note: HISTORICAL examples, as stipulated earlier on) has become something of a flashpoint, and a magnet for unnecessary POV, finger-pointing, and attempts to post weak or unfounded current-events "examples". I didn't write this piece (or continue to work on it) for these kinds of purposes, and it's very disturbing to me to see it so mishandled.

I would be satisfied, I believe, to have another party (possibly Marskell; we haven't spoken recently) overhaul the article. My main concern is to stop persons like Mike18xx from using Wikipedia as a soapbox, and an excuse to try to hurt other people with words... which appears to be his rationale, from reading his own user and talk pages. – Thanks for your time. Zephyrad 05:34, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I see Pablo D. Flores has also picked up on this matter, and gotten less than positive results with the same user, while Lar has previously warned the user about his tactics. I have written each, and asked them to read the above, also. Zephyrad 06:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I acknowledge that this has been brought to my attention and I am monitoring contributions by this user. ++Lar: t/c 07:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Followup:

Thanks for your reply. I would appreciate it if you could keep an eye on this situation. I'm not in a personal dispute with Mike18xx so much as I notice he doesn't seem to take anything but himself and his own narrow opinions seriously, and thinks causing grief by the kilobyte is his mission in life, or something. I can't improve on my own (co-)creation without watching it get instantly reversed to something less, and told what I "don't understand" about the subject, and that I'm "anti-American" – all because I merely wish to change some weak phrasing. This is ridiculous on more levels than is worth discussion.

I have read this person's talk page, and the talk pages on other entries he has "contributed" to, and watched him smart off to one and all (even Wikipedia staff), abuse the setup, and filibuster meaningless and questionable points, while he detracts from the work of others and nearly assumes credit for it. At the same time, he equates any attempt to streamline (or wikify, as I understand it) his prose, or critique any point, as "suppression of the Truth", and the same with everyone's attempts to reason with him, or take disciplinary action. In his view, those who aren't pawns and stooges are actively trying to hide facts (not present them objectively), and punish him and others for "knowing better". This is equally ridiculous.

If this person showed half as much writing talent (as needed here, not in POV pieces) or objectivity as he does sheer arrogance, he might actually make a positive contribution. As it is, from what I've seen and read, his writing is substandard, his facts are slanted, his regard for peers is practically nonexistent, he's unable to take criticism, and his ignorance is only outpaced by his paranoia, and his determination to impose his (lack of) ideas wherever possible. I appreciate Pablo D. Flores taking some action, but if 24-hour blocks haven't worked, I think a 48-hour one will be like putting a bigger Band-Aid on the same bullet wound. People like this crave attention; more than is worth giving him, and I do hope something more effective, or more permanent, is in the works if he comes back expressing the same outlook.

I have not returned to the Second-class citizen page as yet, because I'd prefer to do so when I have adequate time to go over the whole thing (including contributions that may have been overlooked or mangled by recent events). I would still be interested in seeking edit-protection for a revised article, particularly for the list of examples, which I do believe should be limited to noted historical items, not arguable or POV ones from recent memory or interpretation. (There are persons of every race, belief, and economic level, who believe they are unheeded, exploited, or oppressed by the people around them. A page such as this is not the place for blame-gaming.) – Thanks for your help. Zephyrad 12:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your messages, and my apologies for not responding sooner; real life has beckoned the last few weeks. So far it appears that Mike18xx has backed off, or found something else to do, which pleases me greatly. I do intend to go back and clean up the Second-class citizen page, when I have time to devote to a proper cleanup (and the mood is right); I still find its present status unsatisfying, but don't want to do half a job. Zephyrad 00:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

On an unrelated note... you may want to peruse (or refer to someone to peruse) the contributions of CyberSongs, who apparently claims to have invented, predicted, or precipitated every other technological development and trend since rippled toilet paper, offering "proof" in the form of links to his own blog or Web pages, or message boards where he has posted essentially the same unverified/unverifiable claims. (I believe this falls under "circular arguments"; correct me if I'm wrong.) Meanwhile anyone who disagrees, or asks for hard evidence or outside substantiation, is merely "censoring" him, and/or spelling out their own doom. (He and I tangled awhile back, when he inserted a number of POV comments, non-sequitors and unrelated matter into another of my articles [ Songshark ], which I promptly reverted or moved to its talk page. He replied sometime later with a number of further POV remarks and personal attacks, which I answered point-by-point... and never received a response.)

There is a difference between "inventing" or "discovering" something, and merely observing "I'll bet this is going to be big someday!" He doesn't appear to know the difference, and I don't see validation or proof of anything, except possibly his own humbug, naiveté, or delusions of grandeur. (Anyone with as much education and experience as he boasts on his user and talk pages alone ought to be either too busy to make contributions to Wikipedia, too rich to care, or at least be able to have a better writer working on his behalf, IMO.) – Thanks for your time. Zephyrad 00:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the warnings and dialogue you're referring to came overnight, after I noticed this guy had posted even more self-serving fluff, and it kinda got my goat. I referred one page (discussing his "company") for speedy deletion as advertising, and proposed another (claiming to have developed or "proven" the Unified Field Equation – again through his "company") for deletion as original research (and a possible hoax, since he took primary credit for "completing Einstein's work" in this area, and how it would affect the price of tea in China).

A

So yes, there are indeed admins onto this person now, and it'll be interesting to see what develops. I have nothing personal against him, but I do hate to see anyone's time and energies wasted, or anyone misled, by this sort of garbazhe. Meanwhile, I see no reason to stop editing on Wikipedia (despite one person's grumpiness, and I'm glad someone else mentioned that in the help pages); it's an outlet, a chance to share what I know and keep my writing skills in shape... and if I want to toot my own horn, I have my own, off-Wiki pages for that. ;-) – Thanks. Zephyrad 05:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Wikiwoohoo! You've signed up to be a judge for the

Esperanza User Page Award!

You'll have three user pages to examine. The user pages you get coincide with your signup number. So if you signed up to be a judge in spot 1 than you will get nominations 1-3. Pick your favorite one, and list it in the finalist section. After all 5 judges have chosen a finalist it's time to award them 1-10 points in the four categories:

• Attractiveness: general layout, considering colour scheme and/or use of tables if applicable
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Please see the Scores section

on this page

for additional information on your job as a judge.

Keep in mind that your scores are confidential! Email Shreshth91 with your scores and final picks. As soon as all the scores have been tallied, a winner will be announced! Thanks.

May the Force be with you!

Greetings, Wikiwoohoo. The judges would like to announce that the winner for the Esperanza User Page Contest has been chosen. Congratulations to Buchanan-Hermit for winning the contest. The winning entry can be found here.

If you'd like to participate in the contest again, check by the

eshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|)

16:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the congratulations message. Yeah, it did take a lot of planning but once I started making it, thing went quite smoothly. A bit time-consuming but it was worth it. :) -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 17:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 20:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Heyo,

Hi, thanks for contacting me. My problem is with User:Tigermichal over the article Deja Vu (Beyoncé song).

Basically, I haven't added anything to the page, I was just watching it. There was some paragraphs on the page about how Beyonce's fans had a petition for a reshoot for the video, and one about the song "underperforing" at radio compared to her last singles, and Tigermichal kept removing them, while I kept putting them back because it's Point of View to not have them, and I think it's encyclopedic to keep them. The petition was mentioned on the TV show Extra, and the other one (which has been readded now) is just explaining the charts. So after I did a few reverts and told Tigermichal of the problem, he went after me, so I went for help.

It's not that big of a deal, and I've just ignored that page now anyways, I just think this user is a bit problematic, especially if you look at his talk page...

Thanks,

Sure, I can wait... :)

Thankyoubaby

22:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I remember reviewing the BBC news article. However, I don't get much time these days to participate in WP, so I won't be able to review it. I'm really sorry about that. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The user in question edits from 213.240.3.* IP (see [3]). The problems are that he wants to portray Milla's origin as being Montenegrin. While this is partly true, he abuses the

• from Montenegro
• of Montenegrin nation

While Milla's family does come from Montenegro, it is not a part of Montenegrin nation (which I could elaborate, if you want to know more). To that end, for example in [4], he removes references about her knowledge of Serbian language and misinterprets reference about her Serbian origin.

A compromise is possible, for example by saying that she is Montenegrin Serb by origin, but I don't believe that the user would listen to it. Nikola 20:14, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Corse

, regardless of their nation). In a narrower sense, the meaning is somewhat ambiguous.

Prior to 1945, utmost majority of inhabitants of Montenegro were considered and have considered themselves as Serbs, and it is undisputed (see Demographic history of Montenegro). In the narrower sense of the word, Montenegrins are these Serbs who live in Montenegro (and who have different culture than f.e. Albanians who live in Montenegro). After 1945, communist government in Yugoslavia created Montenegrins as a new nation, and maintained that they are not Serbs. For decades, people could not freely declare on the issue. Now when they can, most of them declare as Montenegrins and a large minority declare as Serbs. In the narrowest sense of the word, Montenegrins are those who don't declare as Serbs. See Montenegrins for more details.

Related to Milla, her family either lived in Montenegro prior to 1945 or (her father) consider themselves Serb after 1945, so there is no reason to call her Montenegrin. Nikola 20:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

First, thank you for taking the time to deal with this. How Milla considers her background is not the issue at the moment: none of the references mention that.

However, even if there is an official website with this info, it may not be definitive. If I may take some more of your time, the root of the problem is that in this issue the anon is using the

fallacy of equivocation

. For example, when he says that she is of Montenegrin origin, it could mean either:

• from Montenegro
• of Montenegrins

The first meaning is true, but the second isn't. The anon gave a couple of references which say that she is of Montenegrin origin; this tells us nothing, as it could refer to either of the meanings. Nikola 20:33, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Just occured to me that I never thanked you for your participation in all of this. Well, thank you :) Nikola 17:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Just letting you know I fixed the error in the template you gave to the five judges - the current overseer is

Sorry, I'm afraid I missed your original message... still, good to see it's been worked out! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 16:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

In response to your question, yes definitely it should be summarized. The details should be placed in the sub-articles if they exist. You may also want to look at the article I worked on, The Philadelphia Inquirer, which is also a news medium, for ideas on how you might want to format the BBC News article. Medvedenko 02:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-10-05 Pravknight/FeloniousMonk has been reviewed by two mediators and in their opinion the case seems more an advocacy request than a mediation request. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a peek and determine if this is the case or not? Thanks! ~Kylu (u|t) 22:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to BBC News, are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the hard work of others. Thanks. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰

20:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah sorry about that, I had already reverted myself back to your version, but forgotten I had sent this warning. My bad. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 20:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Archives

Generally it's best to keep archives; you never know when you might need them again. Still, if you still want them deleted, drop a line. Laïka 21:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

But why? Why!?

ЯEDVERS

awards this Barnstar to Wikiwoohoo for being very deserving of lots of barnstars for solid, high-quality, appreciated good work.

Why do you appear to have only one barnstar to your name? What on earth has caused this oversight? Cheeses, you must have more than one to your name. I only hope someone, somewhere, feels it a good idea to give you one. A barnstar, I mean.

ЯEDVERS

19:28, 16 October 2006 (UTC) (shiftily looking left and right to see if anyone has.)

WP:BBC

Welcome!

Hi, and welcome to the BBC WikiProject! We're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Unisouth

19:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Image

Would you mind fixing the link on this one? Thanks! --Fang Aili ^talk 21:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Aeon & Wikiwoohoo,

Alrighty guys, here's a rediculously crazy situation: On top of the 10 cases piling up, new people joining the organization, and other crazy stuff hitting the fan... my wife and I are expecting our new daughter to arrive any day now. :-)

As a result, I'm going to be out of full swing for a couple of weeks and I need you guys to do your best to keep the AMA afloat. The Wikiholic that I am, I know that I won't be away completely, but my appearences will be unpredictable at best. I trust you guys, as you've proven that you know how to keep cool during crunchtime, and if at any time things get too unruly to handle, send me an email and I'll see if I can drop by to help out. :-)

Wish me luck!

AMA

) 15:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

BBC Portal

I see that you removed my link to the BBC Portal from

Bbc.co.uk. Can you let me know (or point me at the appropriate policy) when portal links should and should not be used? I assumed that portals were like categories in that anything which falls into the subject area which the category or portal covers should be linked to it. By that reasoning it would make sense for all BBC related articles to be linked to the BBC Portal. All the main London Underground articles seem to be linked to the Tube Portal. I am sure that I am missing something here but I am not sure what. --DanielRigal

23:44, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza User Page Award

Greetings, Wikiwoohoo. The judges would like to announce that the winner for the Esperanza User Page Contest has been chosen. Congratulations to MacGyverMagic for winning the contest. The winning entry can be found here.

If you'd like to participate in the contest again, check by the

Bryant

10:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

We Have an Advocate Problem

One user who is a new advocate is appairently not very much help, telling advocees to just seek medcab or request arbitration. Discussion on

Desk

) 23:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

User page award - a thank you

Thanks for the award. I will try and re-enter the Esperanza User Page award once I have fixed some little bugs with my user pages. --tgheretford (talk) 19:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Semi-protect function

Hi. I'm not an admin but I was wondering if this would still allow me to semi-protect certain pages that have been vandalised quite often within the past few days. If not, how could I go about having this assigned to articles?

Wikiwoohoo

20:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello! Take your business case for semi-protection to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. It will be assessed and granted/refused after a discussion. (aeropagitica) 20:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Award of a Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		The Barnstar of Diligence is awarded for services as Deputy Coordinator of the Association of Members' Advocates . Awarded by Addhoc

BBC WikiProject: BBC2 idents

I noticed there wasn't a page in existence relating to the BBC2 idents of 1991-2001, so I would like to start by creating a page for this. However, if it's okay, I request help with supplying the pictures as I'm not entirely sure how to use this yet, and don't wish to make any copyright blunders. If you, or someone else, can help when I'm done I'll appreciate it. Thanks. - Psychic Potato 10:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I also used MHP [5] for the Paper Cut-out and Crystal Ball pictures. I'll continue to make some more progress tomorrow. - Psychic Potato 16:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your recent edits, a few details which I missed out first time round. However, could there be a Copper Cut-Out image with the older BBC logo perhaps, as it looks out of place? Also, I think there should be a section on Christmas & special programme specific idents such as Red Dwarf Night. If either of us has the time, it would make a reasonable addition. -- Psychic Potato 10:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The Tireless Contribution Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For all the tireless work and contributions you have made to the BBC News 24 article. tgheretford (talk ) 21:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I wish you luck for the good article renomination. --tgheretford (talk) 21:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, excellent work done on the BBC News 24 article :). Now just to get BBC News to GA status (its a GAC at the moment). RHB 21:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

For your kind welcome, I've been to the meeting page and looked around. I still feel new, it will take me a while to learn what to do and the right way to do it, but I hope to become an avid contributer. At the moment though, I'm inundated. Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . Editor Review} 00:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

PS: Nice Username.