User talk:Ian (Wiki Ed)

I am working on the Femicide in Latin America article for a class right now, and have completely moved my contribution onto the existing article. If you could take a look at it and give me feedback I would appreciate it! Stud3nt1947 (talk) 16:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello.

I need help with... publishing my work

--Ohunayo (talk) 07:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ohunayo It looks like you've managed to move your work to mainspace successfully. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello.

I need help with being able to edit a template, to create my bibliography. --BryceKubasta (talk) 00:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) @BryceKubasta: usually, when we talk about "editing a template", we mean changing the code of the template itself, and I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that. Did you mean, you want to use one of the citation templates, like {{cite book}}, {{cite journal}}, or {{cite web}} to create citations for your bibliography? If so, please see the documentation at those links. If after reading them, you have a specific question, please come back and ask below, as it will be easier for Ian to respond if he knows what kind of difficulty you are encountering. Thanks, (edit conflict) Mathglot (talk) 08:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@BryceKubasta It looks like you've clicked on the grey box without your bibliography sandbox. Those spaces aren't meant to be edited. You need to click somewhere else on the page to be able to edit. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Courtesy link: User:EricY.22/sandbox

Hello Ian,

Hope all is well. I would like to publish my sandbox named "User:EricY.22/sandbox" but unfortunately, Wikipedia is not letting me rename the article. Could you please help me in renaming the article to "The Gee Family in Houston."

Best,

Eric — Preceding unsigned comment added by EricY.22 (talk • contribs) 07:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) EricY.22, Ian will give you more information, but your article is not ready for publication yet, as there are several issues:

• It is almost entirely unsourced, except for a couple of footnotes near the top.
• It relies on a single source,
  independent
  sources before considering publication.
• The part about "Ling Nam College" is on page 15 of the pdf, but your footnote doesn't give the page number, so I wasn't able to find it, the first time I looked. Please add the |page= parameter to your footnotes (or use {{rp}} after a <ref>.)
• Wikipedia has a concept called WP:Notability, which you must have learned about in your training modules, and it's not clear to me that C.Y. Chu (C.Y. Gee) is notable, or at least, you haven't demonstrated it yet. If he is not, no amount of fixing the article will suffice to get it published, so you should focus on this last point first.

I'm sure Ian will have more to say, but that should give you something to think about. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 08:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mathglot! And thanks for adding sources EricY.22

There's a short introduction of what to do next in this video. In the interest of brevity, I think Gee family would be sufficient for an article title. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, @EricY.22, you're still one edit short of the threshold that will allow you to move a page on Wikipedia - you currently have 9 edits, and you need 10. Once you've made your 10th edit you'll be able to move your draft to mainspace. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The page in question was moved from their sandbox to main space by EricY on 30 Nov. (diff), and moved back to their sandbox on Dec. 1 without leaving a redirect by Mathglot (diff) for referencing problems. Mathglot (talk) 01:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian,

Tonight I came across 5 student projects moved to main space and none of them are main space ready. They still had the user sandbox tags on them! There has been no effort to adapt a student paper to a Wikipedia main space article.

Please tell instructors not to suggest that students move their articles from User space to main space without running them through

Liz, as in the section just above this one. Moved live by the student on the last day of the term; moved back to "draft" (user subpage, actually) the day after, but we'll likely never see them back, I'd wager. Mathglot (talk) 08:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian,

I am @Erdabravest2001 and am in CHEM 300 at UBC. My partner @Bird flock and I were wondering if you are able to take a look at the Computational chemistry page and see whether or not it is a "Good Article" by peer review.

Erdabravest2001 (talk) 09:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Erdabravest2001 Nice work but it isn't ready for a GA nomination. A few things that jump out at me right away - they're minor, but they're required for GAs

• Your lead it too long and not terse enough. A lead should be something like the abstract of a paper - a summary of the main facts. If the reader needs explanations of those facts, they need to read the body of the article.
• There's content that, by Wikipedia standards, appears unsourced. Every fact needs to be supported by the source that follows it. If a series of statements is supported by a single source, you can hold off on using the source until the end of the sentence, group of sentences, or paragraph. But there should never be any content after the final reference in a paragraph.
• Per the
  Manual of Style
  references go after punctuation, not before. The only thing that should be bolded is the article title at the start of the article.
• Section headers should never be numbered and should use sentence case, not title case.
• Don't do things like this, ever

Algorithm: Investigate the

condensed phases

.

Please don't take this to mean I think your work is bad - it looks great. But Good Articles require you follow stylistic and formatting rules. In addition, if you nominate an article for GA, you should stick around until it is reviewed (you're expected to respond to reviews). That may take a few days or a few months - it's always hard to know. So if you do, you should check back regularly. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, thank you so much for taking the time to look over our article! To address your concerns, we’ve done the following.

My partner edited the lead to be more like what you mentioned a lead should be.

I understand now that our article looks very unsourced. Thank you for clarifying that the reference should be put last if multiple sentences and the paragraph is based on that citation. Looking back, it's a bit embarrassing to see that we put it after the first sentence that uses the citation, so only one sentence a paragraph would be cited!.

We edited the citations to all be after punctuation to fix the formatting like you suggested.

Section headers are now under sentence case and not numbered. As well, the issue of Algorithm: investigate the… has been addressed and no colloned sections are in the article.

Again, we would like to thank you for catching these errors before the deadline of the article. This has been an excellent learning experience for us! Bird flock (talk) 02:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Bird flock & @Erdabravest2001 - I'm glad it was helpful. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, my partner Erdabravest2001 and I wanted to know if this image would violate copyright.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CjUnDTFKW7tjz0ltBxoHlDdFlyFsrPS0/view?usp=sharing

We took the format of the image from https://journals.aps.org/rmp/abstract/10.1103/RevModPhys.92.015003 at figure 5 and reproduced the image for with our own equations. However, we are concerned that doing this would violate copyright. We were wondering if you could give your thoughts on if this is an acceptable reproduction. My partner says that the information and format is common for quantum circuits in general, but would like your thoughts first. Many thanks. Bird flock (talk) 05:48, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) Bird flock: these questions can be tricky. Copyright has to do with "creative content", the "value added" by a human; so for example, you can copy a table listing the top 20 countries in the world by population, because the person that created that list didn't add anything creative, they looked stuff up and listed it, just like you or anybody could. I don't know enough about circuit diagrams to know how many different ways that could have been designed, but as a WAG I'd guess there's some creative value there. For better advice, though, I'd ask this same question at Wikimedia Commons, at their forum dedicated to the subject at c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 09:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Mathglot.

@Bird flock, I agree with Mathglot here - it's a tricky question, and the folks at Commons are probably the best ones to ask. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ian, @Mathglot and @Bird flock,

As this photo is available in the public domain (i.e. those at UBC and those not at UBC can find it online in the abstract) and because there is a significant difference in the figure itself compared to the source (look at the function). I think we can safely say that this image would not violate copy right. Erdabravest2001 (talk) 23:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Erdabravest2001 - this isn't what public domain means in a copyright context. Something is in the public domain either because its copyright has expired, or because the copyright holder has explicitly released it into the public domain (like the US federal government does). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:20, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian,

Oh I see. Apologies, I thought that public domain meant what I said above. As a result of this caveat, I double-checked the copyright rules for APS (American Physical Society) papers. They say that no copyright rule has been violated as there are significant differences between our figure vs. the original Figure 5. However, since we did get the information from the paper, we need to cite it in the figure caption.

Wikimedia Commons also says the same thing to quote:

"Probably the original diagram wasn't even copyrightable, but if it was certainly [the case]: any copyrightable elements are exactly what you left out of your version. When you upload here, do credit the original for the ideas expressed. I'd also guess your version isn't copyrightable, and it would probably be clearest to note that and use a CC-zero license when uploading, releasing any claim on having something copyrightable here"

Thank you so much. Erdabravest2001 (talk) 18:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Erdabravest2001 That response from Commons is great to hear. I might have guessed something similar, but it would just have been a guess. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello.

I need help with...

getting back into my sandbox. I guess I did not publish it frequently enough, or left the window open for too long, and all of my work is gone and it is now saying that I don't have a user page created for this project and I can't make/find the sandbox for my MRGPRX2 project. Please help me.

--IrisBellweather (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@IrisBellweather If you didn't publish the page, it never left your browser. Sadly there's no way to recover your work.

To create your sandbox, you need to assign yourself an article in the My Articles section of the Dashboard. This will guide you through the process of drafting your work. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:50, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello.

I need help with...publishing my edit, its giving me no stacked found error and i cannot publish what i edited

--CryingEM (talk) 06:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ian (Wiki Ed), this question has been answered at

the Help Desk. CryingEM has made two content edits since posting here, so they may have figured it out. Folly Mox (talk) 12:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Thanks so much @Folly Mox! Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, I see that you are the WikiEd expert for Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/University of Pennsylvania/Medical missionaries to Community Partners (Fall 2023). I have had issues in the past with the notability of numbers of articles created out of this course. Today I moved to draft Draft:Sarah Goodman which would appear to be the most egregious - the lead makes the claim to notability of an 8 day short term mission trip in 2019. I have left a note on the student's page, but my question is where is the training and/or accountability for the class/instructor if this kind of thing is happening? Thanks Melcous (talk) 05:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Icocci image license-violations and possibly even bad-faith image content. See their talk-page. DMacks (talk) 08:04, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @DMacks. I will email their instructor. Hopefully they can intervene with the student. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:39, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. There's also license concern for other students in this class, though more convoluted, since it involves enwiki citations vs commons uploads, for the team of User:Melikajvn and User:Xavier1191. DMacks (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, following up on User:DMacks message regarding the figures we uploaded on NMR article. Could you please guide us on how we can fix this issue? Melikajvn (talk) 01:02, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Melikajvn - the simplest way to do it is to go to the file pages on Commons - c:File:C_NMR_chemical_shift.jpg and c:H NMR chemical shift.jpg and look for a link on the left sidebar that says "Nominate for deletion". When you click on that it will ask for a reason, and you can say "Uploader request" or something like that. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian I am a student and I just published my article on Maternity care deserts in the United States and quickly received some feedback. I was wondering if I could ask for help on the advice that I received that my article was too argumentative/personal essay kind of writing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternity_care_deserts_in_the_United_States

I wrote on section on solutions and wonder if thats what caused that flag...

any thougths? Kristudent194 (talk) 14:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Kristudent194.

• The first point is about copy-editing. I'm don't really agree with this.
• The second point is about layout. I edited the headers to better match the standard Wikipedia style, but you still have external links in-text. You should convert them to inline citations.
• The third one is about tone. That's one of the tricky stylistic issues with how Wikipedia articles are written. It should be more factual and less conversational or persuasive. Have a look at pages 7-9 in the Editing Wikipedia brochure for a sense of how Wikipedia articles should be written. You might also want to peruse the list of featured articles to get a sense of how some of the best Wikipedia articles are written.

Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much Ian. I used the Wikipedia brochure and your advice to edit my language further. I would love if you had any other feedback based on my changes. Thank you so much for your support! Kristudent194 (talk) 08:03, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Ian (Wiki Ed),

I am a student editing the wikipedia page on degloving. I am having an issue with citations in one of my image's captions. For some reason it creates new a new source even though it is the same source I am citing for each sentence in the caption. This is for the CT image in the diagnosis section for Morel-Lavallée lesions

Functional Frog (talk) 17:03, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Functional Frog Since each sentence is supported by the same source, you can just cite it once at the end. I've consolidated them for you. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian,

I did a check of User:P!neapp13/Jewish-American organized crime and found much of the content was taken from a 4 chan /pol/ discussion thread. I tried to tag the page but the link was blacklisted. You might check it yourself and consider what should be done. We already have an fully formed article on Jewish-American organized crime so this is really unnecessary draft on a controversial subject. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Damn. Can you email me the link? Thank you so much for flagging this. I'll let the instructor know. After that it's probably best to delete it (but I can see about that). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:48, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

n/m I can use Earwig's tool myself. :) Brain wasn't switched on yet. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:38, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, maybe not. The /pol/ page it pointed me to seems to be copied from Wikipedia. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

hello Ian.. I had a question: for the Commodification article.

Hello, I'm new to editing Wikipedia, and went through WikiEdu training this semester and editing the Commodification article was a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 15 December 2023.

The question is, does moving sections within the article, Alphabetizing the Examples section, cause the Wikipedia bots to flag sections as plagiarism? No changes, but reorganizing the structure for clarity. If this is the case, please undo any removals. Mitsuo500 (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Mitsuo500. These are both false positives. And yes, they were triggered by moving sections within Wikipedia. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thank you Mitsuo500 (talk) 22:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Ian. I've removed the last 3 contributions from the Language and gender article by a student at CSU Northridge Gender and culture, mostly for lack of sourcing, but also for adding speculative nonsense like 'communication has existed since the beginning of time'. Hard to understand how they could complete a sourcing and citations module, and come up with this. My working theory, is that some students just don't quite believe we're serious about it, until the hammer comes down; or maybe they breeze through the module without really paying attention? I know I had my bad days in classes, sometimes. Sorry for the o/t musings but I can't help think what causes this, and I don't mean to pick on this particular editor, because it's not a rare phenomenon. Otoh, it's great to see the opposite: some new student coming up with beautifully written, fully filled-out {{cite journal}} templates with all the trimmings added to their assigned article. Well, I guess that's why they have the bell curve. Mathglot (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: hadn't noticed that they have eight earlier edits adding 5kb to the article, with at least one citation (maybe more), so at least that's confirmation they know how to cite when they want to. Haven't looked at that content yet, but will try to get to it. Mathglot (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot sigh, another course in a CT area. Doug Weller talk 11:03, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was looking at the wikipedia page about ravens, and I came across an Old English version of the page.

I’m curious how Wikipedia knows Old English, or even enough to create such a page? BlueBlurHog (talk) 00:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @BlueBlurHog. If you look at the page history it looks like it was created by a user named Wōdenhelm (who apparently stopped contributing in 2015), but if you look at ang:Syndrig:RecentChanges on that language site you'll see there are people actively contributing to that site. Most of the recent edits seem to have been made by an editor named Rylesbourne who is active on the English Wikipedia as well.

If you're curious you can visit their user page and ask them what got them started on that language. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:33, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian,

WikiEd left messages for

Hi Liz. I've noticed this problem, and I was wondering how you check for non-existent usernames. (That's probably a key first step.) The Dashboard updates usernames the next time a student logs into the Dashboard, but that doesn't happen nearly as quickly as it should. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:54, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that you are the Wikipedia Expert for Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/Southeastern Oklahoma State University/COMP II (Spring) and I have serious concerns about one of the articles that a student has taken on for their assignment/project/article. The course page states For one of their primary assignments for the course students will select an under-developed Wikipedia article with instructor guidance.
So...the underdeveoped article one student picked?
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.
Stating the obvious perhaps but this is not a Good Idea. Clearly the article is not underdeveloped - I mean sure it is presently rated C-Class but I think it is more likely B-Class. Also, this article has been one of the most contentious and vandalized and scrutinized articles in all of Wikipedia. Definitely not something for a newly-minted editor to tackle.
I have no official standing with WikiEd but I think it would be prudent for someone from WikiEd to contact the instructor and the student and suggest that some other, shorter, maybe a start-class or stub article or an article with loads of maintenance templates would probably be a much (much) better choice.
Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads-up Shearonink. I will ask the instructor to get the student switch to another article.

Right now, the Dashboard warns instructors when students assign themselves FAs or GAs, but there isn't a mechanism to prevent students from assigning themselves articles, but there's a new feature coming soon that should make it possible for community members to tag particular articles that way. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:59, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Yes I saw the news about that upcoming modification over on the WikiEd Noticeboard - will be helpful.

I just hated to see a new editor get tangled up at that article, it can be a minefield. I've been editing it ever since that sad day day in 2012 and editing it is not been for the faint of heart. Thanks again, Shearonink (talk) 20:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not many editors have yet been assigned a topic, but one has been assigned Ram Mandir which requires ECP. Even the post to Talk:Ram Mandir is a violation. Can you advise them? I also just noticed two courses in the GG area - these instructors need to be told about the sanctions, we don't want students having a difficult time here because they are unaware. Doug Weller talk 11:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller I'll let the instructor know. (Sorry I took so long, I was at our annual All Staff last week, and it's impossible to keep up with the world in a week like that.) And GG = Gamergate? Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian (Wiki Ed) gender, gamergate isn't under contentious topics anymore. Thanks, no problem I completely understand, hope you had a good time! Doug Weller talk 17:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Ian:, I am currently looking at sources to add information to the Shango article, but specifically "The Americas" subsection. Admit-tingly, I am both nervous and excited to edit wikipedia. So far though, I don't have any specific questions to ask. However, if I didn't message you correctly on your talk page please let me know. Jenniedimeo (talk) 17:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jenniedimeo - that's great to hear. I grew up Orisha-aware, I suppose, and I have a friend who's very deeply into the Orisha faith, so I'd love to see that article improved! Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just posted this on the talk page of the course: [1]. --David Tornheim (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @David Tornheim! Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, I am working on the Vaginal Bleeding article for my Wiki class. I made edits into a sandbox last week, but have been unable to find them. I thought it was a sandbox specific to the vaginal bleeding page, however I don't see that as an option now. My personal sandbox is empty. I wasn't sure if t here was a way for you to find my contributions from last week at all so that i didn't have to start over.

Thank you!--Abilli4 (talk) 18:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Abilli4. Unfortunately, until you click on the "Publish changes" button, nothing is saved. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:25, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, I am hoping you can help me change my self assigned article for my Wiki class. I assigned myself an article for my assignment in class and my professor provided feedback saying that the article was too limiting and I should choose a new one. How do I delete the other article and upload the other one that my professor has approved? Deedeeedits (talk) 19:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Deedeeedits. You can change the article you're assigned by going to the Dashboard page for your class. In the "My articles" section, to the right of your assigned article, there's a button that says "Remove". Clicking on that will remove the article. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello.

I need help with... Finding the list of articles that I need to choose from. My professor created a list of articles that I should find on home page, but I cannot find them and I feel lost. Can you help me ?

--N hatem2001 (talk) 14:56, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @N hatem2001. I can't find this list either. You should ask your instructor for help with this. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:06, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My professor said that I should assign myself any article of my choice. How do I do that? N hatem2001 (talk) 14:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@N hatem2001 - see the first part of this training slide. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian! I am one of the students in Prof. Danylevich's Race, Gender, and Medicine class. My group of three (w/ @Samhivellala and our other member Marie) are deciding whether or not we should start a new page for "internalized ableism" or just add to the section, "Types of Ableism" that mentions it on the "Ableism" page. Do you have any advice on this for us? We are wondering if there are enough instances of internalized ableism being mentioned in other articles (I could only find two) and whether it is just simpler and more helpful to just compile the information we want to write about internalized ableism under the larger "Ableism" page. If you have any pointers, that would be great! Thanks! Gek21 (talk) 22:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gek21 - I don't know if there's enough for a stand-alone article or not. I suggest you write it as a section on the ableism page, and if it gets too long, spin it off into a separate article. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ian (Wiki Ed)! My group-mates (@Samhivellala and @Flamerune567) and I ended up making a new article for it under the title Internalized Ableism. If you could take a look when you get a chance and provide us with any feedback you have, that would be great! Thanks so much. Gek21 (talk) 14:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ian, hoping for your input at User talk:Jialeijiang about an ESL course. Thanks, Fritzmann (message me) 14:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on User talk:Jialeijiang. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:38, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am using WikiEdu for a class and would like to select and assign tutorials and articles for my students. How can I do that? 212.36.194.12 (talk) 14:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The best way to do this is to get in touch with Helaine by email (helainewikiedu.org). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian! I just copyedited Medial patellofemoral ligament, which I didn't realize was being edited by WikiEd student Cg621 for an assignment. Should I revert myself? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. —asparagusus (interaction) ^sprouts! 15:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Asparagusus - student editors should expect that their work will be edited by other Wikipedians. Don't worry about it. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:00, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If a "Note: Edits to this page from new or unregistered users are subject to review prior to publication (help)." appears when I switch to edit mode, will it affect my professor being able to see the changes I make on the article?

JulesJ2024 (talk) 14:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JulesJ2024 I'm not sure - what page were you trying to edit? Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is called Honey Bee JulesJ2024 (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That won't apply to you because you're no longer a "new" user (once you've made 10 edits and your account is more than 4 days old you're no longer "new" in the sense that's referring to). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian,

This editor changed their username several days ago so please leave messages on their new User talk page, instead of this one which needs to remain a Redirect. Many thanks and good luck with Spring Quarter! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Liz. I've set up a search that usually catches these now, but apparently I didn't wait long enough for all the edits to cycle through. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:10, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ian, dropping a note regarding Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/Algoma University/Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II (Winter 2024). A student has selected India, a FA, and has already been asked not to on the talkpage by two others. It is, in any case, ECPed. In general, I would say the course participants have chosen a number of very broad topic articles which seems likely to set them up for disappointment. The one choosing White supremacy may not do well either. Best, CMD (talk) 10:03, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A lot has gone wrong with this class. I've asked them to stop editing for now. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ian,

We are seeing some students from this course move their own drafts, or those of their fellow students, into the main space of the project. Some of them actually don't look too bad but there are some issues (gigantic paragraphs, copyright checks, some iffy sources) and I'd like them to be reviewed by someone, like you, an instructor or AFC, before leaping into main space. Thanks for any oversight you can provide. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ian, it's gone from a few sandboxes moved to main space a day to dozens today. I know that these kind of mistakes come in waves but I really urge you to tell instructors to advise students not to move their school work to the main space of the project. They can be tagged for deletion and it's taking up a lot of editor time sorting out what to do with them and moving them back to their proper location. Thank you for any help you can provide in stopping this behavior. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz The Dashboard notifications of page moves apparently broke, so I was missing that element entirely. I'm really sorry. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:08, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop Wiki Education, whatever it is. It sets these people up for failure because they do not get the help they need to make good edits.

And since you are an admin (and I am not the first person who told you this 1 2) you know this already so I do not understand why you are involved with Wiki Edu. Make a list of 100 recent edits made by these "student editors" and check what percentage needs to be reverted.

They should not be editing controversial articles or articles containing medical claims and someone experienced should check every single edit made. Polygnotus (talk) 20:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Polygnotus

• Make a list of 100 recent edits made by these "student editors" and check what percentage needs to be reverted.
• I can't do this right now, but I'll try to do it as soon as possible.
• I do not understand why you are involved with Wiki Edu
  • I am involved with Wiki Education because I sincerely believe that student editors make make, in aggregate, a remarkably positive contribution to Wikipedia. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't do it.
• And since you are an admin
  • If you have any example of where I have used admin tools inappropriately, let me know. I take admin actions seriously, and do my best to stay well within the guidelines. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What I am saying is that, as an admin, I expect you to be aware of the fact that these student editors are set up for failure because they do not get the help they need to make good edits. Making good edits isn't hard (plenty of typos to fix) but expecting a student editor to actually improve an article about a controversial topic that has evolved over the years without giving them the guidance required is setting them up for failure. Why is there no experienced editor that actually sits down with these students to help them? Why does their work not get checked? Why do they get assigned articles that they should not be editing without more guidance (e.g. those about controversial topics or those that contain medical claims)? We are

WP:BITEing these guys because they make bad edits and then we revert them which discourages them from ever returning. Polygnotus (talk) 17:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

@Polygnotus

• I expect you to be aware of the fact that these student editors are set up for failure because they do not get the help they need to make good edits.
  • I disagree with this premise. Students make many thousands of good edits a term.
• Making good edits isn't hard (plenty of typos to fix) but expecting a student editor to actually improve an article about a controversial topic that has evolved over the years without giving them the guidance required is setting them up for failure.
  • We don't expect students to make edits to controversial topics. We do everything we can to steer them away from them. A few still do, but that's out of 6,000+ students
• Why is there no experienced editor that actually sits down with these students to help them?
  • Because overwhelmingly, the training modules and support we provide them work.
• Why does their work not get checked?
  • Instructors are supposed to be working with their students as they work. And there is some checking by us. But Wikipedia is a wiki. Even switching on pending changes for every article a student edits isn't going to work because they very rapidly reach autoconfirmed status.
• Why do they get assigned articles that they should not be editing without more guidance (e.g. those about controversial topics or those that contain medical claims)?
  • We try to steer them away from controversial articles as best we can (with some exceptions; students do pretty well on articles about climate change and women, despite those being controversial topics), and most of the students who work on medical articles are in medical school. There are a few students each term who don't follow instructions. But outside of medical schools, we have largely shut down students editing medical articles.

Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What kind of planet do we live on where "women" is a controversial topic... sigh. I would consider Nature therapy and Urban green space to fall within the controversial/MEDRS area, but somehow students still get assigned those articles. Do you think the instructions are unclear in that respect? How can they be improved? Where can I see the instructions given to students and teachers? There will always be bias because I end up here because of bad edits by Wiki Ed students, and I wouldn't have noticed any good ones. Polygnotus (talk) 17:54, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For example, look at Nature therapy. Polygnotus (talk) 17:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't have time for 100, but here are 10 recent mainspace edits. I picked from the classes that were most active in the last 2 weeks, and picked the most recent mainspace edit from classes that were active in mainspace

Diff	Observations
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Propaganda_for_Japanese-American_internment&diff=prev&oldid=1217144263	Y Replaced a reference to Wikipedia with an RS
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217164175	Y Fixed a citation error created by VE
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217119211	Could be better ("it has been proven" isn't great wording) but it's not something that needs immediate reversion
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amanda_Jones_(librarian)&diff=prev&oldid=1217080516	Y Added a citation where one wasn't before
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217165410	Y Fixing their own error
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217241141	Y Copyedit
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217119076	Bad edit that should have been reverted
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217153901	Y Looks ok
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1217074685	Y I don't like the way the article is laid out, but that pre-dated the student's work
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1216972628	I wouldn't say I'm a fan of this type of a section (tropical fish hobbyist info on Wikipedia is mostly crufty) and I doubt the site is an RS, but it's a fair try for a newbie

Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but I was talking about significant and substantial edits to content. Polygnotus (talk) 17:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to follow what you asked for. Here are some of the biggest contributions from the classes who have made the biggest contributions this term

1. Nicrophorus nepalensis
2. Colaphellus bowringi
3. Colorado potato beetle
4. Gardening - this one had some serious problems
5. Mponeng Gold Mine
6. The Case of Paul Peacher - there are some issues here, but having this article in Wikipedia is, IMO, a real benefit
7. 1969 Indianapolis riots
8. Radical Abolitionist Party
9. Veterinary anesthesia - the kind of article I'd try to steer students away from, but seems like a decent addition
10. Anglo-Arabian

I'm not going to say these are perfect, but they're much better than most substantial contributions from newbies.

There's a lot more student work on this end of the spectrum than the stuff you're running into. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:16, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted the Urban green space edit so that was probably a bad example of Wiki Edu's benefits. Polygnotus (talk) 17:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Could you please tell your students not to publish their school assignments in mainspace? I've reverted their moves numerous times (more than a handful just today) and it is really becoming disruptive. Thank you. CycloneYoris ^talk! 06:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CycloneYoris Thanks for the heads-up. I normally get notifications when students move work into mainspace, but it looks like the notifications on the Dashboard are broken, so I didn't realise the scale of the problem that class was having. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CycloneYoris Sorry, again. This was so much worse than I realised. I've asked the instructor to have their students stop editing. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, and thank you for your response. I've tried to reach out to several of these students, but they seem to ignore the warnings I've posted on each of their talk pages, and it would be absolutely fine if they would publish articles on their userspace instead of bringing them to mainspace. CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! We are students trying to move our article to the main space but are getting a strange error. Our professor is not sure what to do and said we should ask you for help. Can you check out the page and tell us what is going on? Here is the error we are getting.

Link: Pālamanui Community Forest

This template is not to be used in article space.

This is the sandbox page where you will draft your initial Wikipedia contribution.

If you're starting a new article, you can develop it here until it's ready to go live.

If you're working on improvements to an existing article, copy only one section at a time of the article to this sandbox to work on, and be sure to use an edit summary linking to the article you copied from. Do not copy over the entire article. You can find additional instructions here.

Remember to save your work regularly using the "Publish page" button. (It just means 'save'; it will still be in the sandbox.) You can add bold formatting to your additions to differentiate them from existing content.

• Bibliography sandbox

Leon02356 (talk) 00:55, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ignore this, the error disappeared after being up for about 5 minutes. Leon02356 (talk) 00:56, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Leon02356 Johnuniq removed that template for you. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:25, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Beetle nominations, as well as WikiEdu nominations. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Ian. BlueMoonset left you a response that requires your immediate attention. Thank you. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:38, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Ian! I posted it wrong as user instead of article. And so now the page comes up as the user page instead of the article. How do I change this? MidnightStorm0819 (talk) 17:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:RM/TR page. Since the article is now in the article space, I also edited it a bit. SilverLocust 💬 20:13, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Thanks @SilverLocust! Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 23:12, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! MidnightStorm0819 (talk) 15:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo Ian, I've been surprised to see a message at the bottom of a talk page Talk:Louse, announcing that it's a student assignment. I'm used to seeing that information at the top of a talk page, which is where I would look for it if I was wondering whether a bunch of edits were from a student editor. I see the documentation of {{Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment}} says it goes at the bottom, though if there is any further discussion added to that talk page it will gradually work its way up the page, surely - and possibly become archived if it's just in a standard post as this one is, perhaps incorrectly?

It would seem a lot clearer if the "this is a student assignment" message was in a neat little box in the top matter of the talk page, staying there as a permanent record that it was a student assignment at date x. (Though I don't see these messages mentioned anywhere within Wikipedia:Talk page layout#Lead (bannerspace), where I'd expect to see them.

It also seems slightly surprising that students are being let loose on invited to improve a Good Article - is that normal practice? PamD 20:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @PamD. The "student assignment" message used to be at the top of the page, but there was a discussion at some point (vaguely arm-waving to some point since the start of the pandemic) and people decided it should be "demoted" to just being a post on the talk page that would could be archived when the talk page was archived. Mathglot, do you remember the details of when that discussion happened?

When students assign themselves a GA or FA they get an automated email strongly suggesting they pick another article to work on. In this case, it looks like the student did switch to head louse once they got the message (you can see what they're actually assigned on the Dashboard). I've messaged Sage to figure out what happened on Talk:Louse. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 23:11, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi PamD. My recollection accords with Ian's. I also recall a lot of pushback about having old student assignments kept more or less forever in the header, even if they were in a collapsed state, and after discussion a bot was used to extract them and move them to the Talk page body as individual sections, to be archived in the normal manner. I seem to remember a January date on that procedure, maybe January 2022, but Sage will know.

To the extent that we treat Wiki Ed student editors the same way as any other new editor, this makes sense imho, as I hardly think we would keep a section in the header for the edits of some differently defined group of brand new editors going back years; what would be the point? I really think that should apply to student edits, too. What purpose is served by highlighting them?

As a separate but related issue, some articles become perennial objects of Wiki Ed assignments year after year, sometimes in the same course by the same prof, sometimes by others, and I could see an argument for noting this in some fashion, perhaps collpased in the header, or in a pinned discussion, without tracking the names of all the student editors involved, just that they are perennial choices of Wiki Ed courses. If you think that would be helpful to you, you could try proposing it at

WP:ENB. Don't know if that would gain traction, as the trend has been to move stuff out of the header, and let it be archived. HTH, Mathglot (talk) 23:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Ian, could this be the discussion you were looking for about using TP sections for assignments? There was some later follow-up after the initial implementation because sections weren't getting archived; that discussion is here. Mathglot (talk) 02:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian (Wiki Ed)@Mathglot Thanks for explanation and link to discussion. Of course that discussion was among people involved in WikiEd, rather than among other editors who come across articles being worked on by students and want that info to be clearly available. If something looks like a student edit I'd prefer to be able to check simply at the top of a page to see whether there was a course template, rather than having to scroll to the bottom of a talk page, or somewhere near the bottom of the talk page if it's a busy one, or rely on "It might get re-added if the section gets archived or removed before the course ends." ("might"). Ah well, its clearly water under the bridge.

I think I did notice that the student had also chosen "Head louse", and wondered what was going on: surely the original post should have been updated or removed? Glad to hear that student editing of GAs and FAs is discouraged.

While I'm sympathetic to the general idea of encouraging students to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, and sometimes chime in to offer help to well-meaning but apparently badly-taught students, I'm weary of some of the rubbishy editing I've seen. Too often their approach seems to be to write an article using whatever they've learned (or not learned) and try to impose it over the existing well-written multi-editor MOS-compliant article which has grown organically over the years. Do we know what proportion of student editors ever come back as volunteer editors to contribute other than for grade scores? Ah well. PamD 07:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was interested in that very retention question and started to look into it, at VPT, I think. Anecdotally, my impression is that students leave forever as soon as their class is over; I’ve seen one who remained or came back. Mathglot (talk) 07:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"To the extent that we treat Wiki Ed student editors the same way as any other new editor.... What purpose is served by highlighting them? If I find that a new but slightly clueless editor has worked on a page on my watchlist, making a lot of systematic mistakes (all the section headings in Title Case, spaces before the references, person referred to by forename, over-linking of country names etc, that sort of thing), I might spend quite a bit of time cleaning up the article. If I then realise it's been done by a student who is earning their grade by contributing to the encyclopedia, I feel disgruntled: they'll be getting grade credit for my work. If I realise it's a student editor I might change one instance of each mistake and drop a note on their talk page pointing out the problems, maybe linking to the MOS, and suggesting that their instructor apparently failed to teach them this element of how to edit. So I think it is important for us, the general editors, to be made aware when edits are not being done by a volunteer but by someone editing for grade credit: it's a version of paid editing, really, when someone's motivation is not "improve the encyclopedia and have fun" but "do this assignment and get a good grade". PamD 07:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of the main problems with Wiki Edu. We care about writing about an encyclopedia; they care about getting grade credit. These are conflicting goals. Back in my day there was no LLM, so what I did when I had to write an essay is simply translate one. Teachers would never be able to detect this form of copyright violation. Nowadays the kids simply take a source, have an LLM mangle the text, and post it on Wikipedia. Why wouldn't they; they have been doing it for a long time and all chatgpt detectors are scams. The teachers won't be able to detect this form of copyright violation (they don't have the time required for that kinda stuff). I caught one Wiki Edu student plagiarizing, and they got blocked. How many more are slipping through the net every day? Forcing students to do something for credits guarantees that they'll think it is uncool and not fun. If we want to retain them as editors we should do the opposite of Wiki Edu. Polygnotus (talk) 08:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @

WP:ENB? My tank's on empty, and I lack the emotional bandwidth to continue these meta discussions, especially when student editing is at full swing. I'm really sorry, but I think you'd be better-served by engaging with my colleagues on the noticeboard. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

@Ian (Wiki Ed) Fine by me, if you think the conversation is going to continue. I came to you because you're the WikiEd name on the course page for the message at Talk:Louse, as I didn't realise there had been the prior discussion about where notification should go. I guess it's a problem for the WikiEd insiders, both actual WikiEd people and those who read its noticeboard, that the decisions made about WikiEd affect the generality of editors too, who don't in practice get a chance to air their viewpoint in the discussion. But this happens all over Wikipedia, inevitably - specialist interest groups making decisions affecting other editors who don't watchlist every noticeboard. PamD 07:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Ian! I appreciate your hard work. I wanted to reach out about an editor who made some edits because they were working on a "school project". Per discussion on their talk page a professor has assigned work, but they haven't posted the typical wikied disclaimers. Not sure if there's anything you can do, but wanted to make you aware! Best, glman (talk) 23:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I appreciate the heads-up. If you come across things like this, the best place to post about them is usually

WP:ENB. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

Thanks Ian! Will do in the future. Keep up the good work! glman (talk) 02:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ian,

It looks like you removed the sustainability contribution from the Airbnb Wiki page and did not really explain why. You stated, "I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it is a poor translation." What does that mean? You did not provide any substantive or relevant feedback for me to view, so how would I revise my article? NorthShoreLife (talk) 18:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @NorthShoreLife. I wasn't the one who moved the page, it was 14_novembre. I'm not sure why they described it as a poor translation - it would be best to ask them.

That said, the article isn't ready for mainspace, and probably shouldn't be a stand-alone article. I will give you some more feedback on your talk page, where it's less likely to get lost among all the other posts. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:44, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ian (Wiki Ed) Well, yes, now my wikibreak is almost over, anyway I know it was not ready for mainspace and picked the reason I thought was the best 14 novembre (talk) 🇮🇹 13:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A number of students in the Comparative Management course appear to be posting AI-generated text and/or images in userspace:

• User:Julienhlt/Time Management
• User:Jankypatell/Time management
• User:Paulsnc/Mastering Time Management

Is this part of an assigned class activity? Omphalographer (talk) 16:10, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Omphalographer Yes, this is a class. Thanks for the heads-up. I had some serious concerns about the content the first one added to the time management article on Friday. I contacted the instructor about it, but it seems the problem is more widespread in this class.

Also thanks for cleaning this up, Belbury. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, I was wondering whether to flag this up somewhere, good to know you're already on it. Belbury (talk) 08:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Ian, I am a student and just had a question about adding my own chart in a sandbox draft of an article. I have the information cited on where I got the information from and just thought a pie chart might add a section in my article. I was wondering if I was able to make my own pie chart on Canva using that information and if that is possible, how I would go about adding that into Wiki commons? Thank you! Bellamrome (talk) 22:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Reply}} below if you have any questions about this. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 11:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply

]

This is great Mathglot! I didn't know about Template:Pie chart. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]