User talk:Michael Bednarek/Archive 4

The Piano Sonata No. 16 was added to the catalogue by Mozart ten days before the 39 Symphony. Check it yourself in the Köchel catalogue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.199.239.242 (talk) 09:49, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

That article is wrong; see the NMA score. Just goes to show that one shouldn't trust Wikipedia. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on this. I guess you are right on the various forms of 'mêlé', though apart from one KZ typo they were as given in Grove. What about Pegamin as an 'opéra lyrique-comique' rather than an 'opéra lyri-comique'. Are you sure about this? Do we have a reference? --Kleinzach 16:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I had the impression that "lyri-comique" was one of those abbreviations which the French are so fond of; apparently, it's a proper word. It seems to me, though, that the long form "lyrique-comique" might be easier understood.

"mêle", which is 3rd person singular active ([he, she, it] mixes) doesn't make any sense to me in this context – it has to be "mêlé". Whether it gets another "e" depends on the gender of the noun it describes; "opéra" and "drame" are masculine, "comédie" is feminine.

There are two instances of compounds: "drame en prose mêlée de musique " and "opéra comique en prose mêlée d'ariettes". I think the adjective/participle "mêlé" describes the nouns "drame" and "opéra", respectively. If written as "mêlée", it must refer to "prose", which is the only feminine noun in the vicinity. So the question whether it should be "mêlé" or "mêlée" depends on whether the phrase wants to say that the prose drama (or comic prose opera) is mixed with music (or little arias), or whether the work is a drama (or comic opera) in prose which is mixed with music (or little arias). I think the former makes more sense.

I have no sources for any of this other than various French dictionaries and grammar books. Feel free to revert to your heart's content. Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My apologies, I didn't intend to trouble you to explain the 'mêlée/mêlée' grammar point. I'm sure you are right on that. At the time it did cross my mind that it was a bit odd, I should have checked.

What I wanted to ask you about was 'lyri-comique'. The only other reference I've found to this opera is here. This does give 'lyri-comique', so if you don't mind I'll change it back, subject to any further information emerging! Thanks. --Kleinzach 09:27, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

It's great to see the arias integrated into the synopsis as you have done! Viva-Verdi (talk) 17:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Much as I admire your work, [Novi Thesauri Musici---Liber II---Venetii---A.Gardano---1568ndex.php?title=Dies_Irae&curid=183669&diff=399103318&oldid=399043352|this] attempt at consistency goes against the 1961 Gradual, which like the LU uses j's throughout. Is the cited source (GR 1962) actually different? If not a different source could be supplied, or all the j's restored, depending on which might be less work ;-) Sparafucil (talk) 10:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

(That link you gave is somewhat mangled.)

I simply reverted the change of one "i" to "j" to the spelling used consistently in the text. This spelling was introduced by the editor Echevalier on 4 November 2009 with a reference to the talk page. I didn't specifically inspect the source given on that talk page, but I do have a Missale Romanum (1920), 18th ed., 2004, which on page 835 gives the text with "j" throughout. As a result (and based on my own experience of Church Latin), I think you're right and the claim by Echevalier doesn't hold. To be certain, one would need to inspect http://www.musicasacra.com/pdf/missale62.pdf (79MB). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:48, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I have now checked the source above (Missale, 1962), and it does indeed use "i" for "iudex", "iustus", etc. Now what? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Since this issue surfaced I've look at the other cats and found various problems. It seems some are old cats and some are new. I've started some cfds here and here with more to follow. --Kleinzach 04:59, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I did notice those CfDs; the whole issue seems messy, confusing, and not fully thought through. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that genres frequently cut across languages. If they are compatible, like for example Category:English-language operettas, then that's fine. --Kleinzach 05:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for looking attentively at the composer! As

On my latest visit to that piece I read that Mozart's wife sang "the soprano solos". I bet she didn't do S I and S II. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Obviously, the most likely part would be Soprano I. I don't have access to the sources mentioned in the article; my liner notes read: "What is certain is that Mozart had Constanze’s voice in mind for two the solo soprano arias" and the text in

Talk:Great Mass in C minor. -- Michael Bednarek (talk

) 04:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Michael, Christmas appraoching, I started Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ. The source on Melodies ... has a picture (among others) that I would like to see in the article. Possible? btw thanks for adding to James Kent! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:02, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

No worries – I can't see a copyright problem with a score that was published in 1524. However, I'm away from home for a couple of days to see Uncle Vanya at the Sydney Theatre Company with the greatest cast ever assembled on an Australian stage: Cate Blanchett, Hugo Weaving, Richard Roxburgh, John Bell, Jacki Weaver, …; uploading that image will have to wait until the weekend. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Weekend is early enough for Christmas, smile. Enjoy the performance! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I did, enormously; it was the most exhilarating theatre performance I've seen since Thomas Holtzmann as Faust at the Cuvilliés Theatre in the 70s. And not only was the stage performance extraordinary, Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban were in the audience, seven rows behind us.

To the matter at hand: done. The file is available as File:WalterGelobet.jpg. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for both. I saw Holtzmann as

plainchant. Chorale tune? Some say choral theme? --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 22:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

"Your" pic is now in Q4. Thanks also for the translations in Schnarcherklippen, appeared. DYK: Frohe Weihnachten, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I am having trouble using URLs that contain spaces (like this one: "http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 3119") in references and cite web templates. I seem to remember you are a bit of an HTML specialist, so I would be grateful if you could advise how this problem can be solved. Best regards.

Use Percent-encoding and substitute a blank with "%20": http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN%203119 . -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Michael Bednarek!

Thanks for correcting many typos in the article on Jim Neversink. I undid one of them, as Diane Coetzer is really called Coetzer, not Coetzee.

Thanks SkaraB 21:17, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I now realise that there is a Diane Coetzer, music journalist from South Africa (Interview). But the article quoted in Neversink's Wikipedia page is signed by a Diane Coetzee. That's why I changed it. Did

The Times misspell her name? -- Michael Bednarek (talk

) 06:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Exactly; the previous picture (File:Anonymous 18th century Birth of Christ.jpg) didn't have any devils and was too sweet for my liking. The Boticelli is much better known – it has its own article – and has a gripping background story. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! You are right, I don't even remember the former one (being used to the churches of de, btw the mentioning of the soprano sometimes continuing the annunciation was just dismissed there as being not relevant to the story.), so a stronger one is better. Do you have an idea how to illustrate "Singet dem Herrn ein neues Lied"

BWV 153. I thinks human singers should be shown, not angels, "alles, was Odem hat". --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 13:47, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding BWV 190: there are plenty of images in Commons:Category:Circumcision of Christ and one other fitting image: File:Sonderheim St. Peter und Paul Deckenmalerei 016.JPG ("Cantate Domino canticum novum").

Side remark: it is a bit odd that a former altar boy and pupil of the

Redemptorists' boarding school in Glanerbrug ("Zubringerjuvenat" for the Collegium Josephinum, Bonn), a long-lapsed Catholic, a decided atheist (Hitchens' God Is Not Great is my credo), should assist in matters of deeply sacred music (while he is listening, as he does every year, to day 3 of the WO). The thing is: Bach's music is just too wondrous to be ignored just because of its religious context. All the best, Michael Bednarek (talk

) 06:19, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the canticum novum and the Credo! There are plenty of images for the

BWV 64, I cannot imagine a picture for that. Do you? --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 07:17, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

For BWV 190: have a look at Commons:Category:Music-making angels and Commons:Category:Singing angels; there's also Commons:Category:Singing in art where File:Nicolas Poussin 053.jpg fits your requirement of humans and angels (or rather putti) – maybe there's something suitable in those categories. Further, File:Cantoria di luca della robbia, formelle, dettaglio 02.JPG and File:Cantoria Della Robbia OPA Florence 5.jpg from the Commons:Category:Cantoria by Luca della Robbia (Luca della Robbia) look suitably intense.
For BWV 64: blank. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Beautiful, thank you! When my parents saw this della Robbia they noticed that one of the singers resembles my brother (then, as a boy). BWV 64 blank, of course, nice contradiction in terms "Sehet" and then something you absolutely can't see. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

For more contradiction: I added a pic after all. I saw the real one recently, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:37, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Remembering the above, you seem best qualified to translate "dessen kühne Harmonien die Schrecken des von Gott verlassenen Menschen abbilden" (Dürr, of course, on

I would use "daring harmonies" for "kühne Harmonien".

Speaking of "daring": without studying the score, I dare to assume that those thirds and sixths are major thirds and major sixths; piping would probably be OK.

You may want to change the wikilinking of

Thomas Hampson (baritone). -- Michael Bednarek (talk

) 04:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! baritone yes, Affektenlehre: rather no to psychology, a link to the Baroque concept seems more appropriate in the context, imo. I wonder if the thirds and sixths would be understood without a link, which really doesn't help a reader who doesn't know a bit. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:45, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi Michael, the Neue Bach-Ausgabe comes in German with "historisch-kritisch", how would that be said in English? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

The

NBA.) -- Michael Bednarek (talk

) 11:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, helpful again. I noticed your household link before, that's why I wrote it as I did, smile. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Now I got some more paragraphs from de to en

NBA (Bach), realizing that I don't know English terms for such common words as Entstehungsgeschichte, Gesamtausgabe, Notenband, Lebensaufgabe ... please have a look, --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 19:13, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

You seem to have found adequate terms for those words; I can only suggest two alternatives:

• "Notenband": instead of "volume of sheet music" (as you already use it), it could possibly be simplified to "music volumes".
• "Lebensaufgabe": Instead of "[Neumann and Dürr] made the new edition their project for life", the phrase "… made the new edition their life's project" seems slightly more idiomatic to me. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Taken, I enjoy this! btw Alfred Dürr was accepted for DYK overnight, I wanted NBA for a background. Improvements for the editor welcome, of course, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

A member of the WP:EAR team has addressed your enquiry at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#Vienna New Year's Concert and the Anschluss. If the issues/problems persist, please make use of one of the WP:dispute resolution departments.--Kudpung (talk) 14:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

See File:Bach-Archiv Logo.svg. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:26, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! What do you think about the name? In a way there is only this one, like one Thomanerchor, but as they carry Leipzig in their logo I took it as par of the name. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

That's what they call themselves, so I can't see a problem whit that. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Before I ask Antandrus to make the changes to the OP banner, I just wanted to check that this is what he needs to do

Under the line:

|MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Opera articles

Remove:

|attention={{{attention|}}}

|infobox={{{needs-infobox|}}}

Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:25, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly what I think should be done. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your support! Following up, is there a term for Huldigungskantate, and is Trauermusik Funeral music or something else, in general and specifically in

I would indeed translate Trauermusik as "Funeral Music", or, depending on the work, "Mourning Music", but the term is often left untranslated in English usage – see Maurerische Trauermusik, Trauermusik, or these works.

Huldigungskantate is a bit more difficult; "cantata of homage" or "homage cantata" (note the English spelling, different to the French/German spelling de:Hommage) – see this Pachelbel catalogue – is the only thing I can think of. H. C. Robbins Landon uses "allegiance cantata". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:11, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, working on it, BWV 210a, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Homage: O angenehme Melodei, BWV 210a and O holder Tag, erwünschte Zeit, BWV 210, translating to "O pleasing melody" and "O lovely day, o hoped-for time", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:03, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Michael, I noticed you reverted my edit. The reason I removed the references was because just one would be sufficient to meet

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Such a simple term, but I don't know it, would be nice for

I don't see any reference to leere Saite at BWV 83, but the normal English term is open string. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, copied, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Please give me more feeling for language, the keyword of

Both are probably correct, and I can't tell the difference. Both seem to reflect more the idea of Zufriedenheit, although my Langenscheidt shows Genügsamkeit for "contentment". The aspect of Genügsamkeit that's missing from both these English words is "frugality" or even "asceticism". I suspect, "contentedness" will have to do. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:54, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Would you mind going a step further and implement the attitude "let it be enough and don't complain if someone else seems to have more or to be happier" to a better translation of the Dürr "sich mit seinem Los zufrieden geben und in Gottes Willen schicken" than my rough approach. I guess that neither fate nor destiny match "Los" in a Christian sense, especially not of 1724. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:13, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"fate" or "destiny" would be OK, but "to be content with one's lot" for "sich mit seinem Los zufrieden geben" is perfectly idiomatic (see wikt:lot#Noun #6 & #8). "Submit to God's will" would probably work for "sich in Gottes Willen schicken". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I like the idiomatic one, thanks, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Michael. With the greatest respect, no, there wasn't, but thank you for looking out the WA schedule. Another editor has now pulled us all back to the present time. :) I would imagine that this service will be an impressive event. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 17:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for Musiktheater im Revier! Title of the musical, who translated that? Teach me more language: will that "Oh" be understood as the number, not an exclamation as in "Oh no"? And is "outdribbles" as doppeldeutig as "kommt vorbei"? Perhaps a bit of explanation might help readers not familiar with Schalke nullvier. (I tried a bit) Also: if nullvier is not capital, why Oh Four? (back to "op.") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I came across this little gem rather late in my preparation for the article, and there (Der Spiegel) it was spelled that way; see also this & a further link there. I now realise that that was possibly not a good idea – Wikipedia usually avoids idiosyncratic original spellings in favour of the more conventional one; maybe it should be spelled "Nullvier". And the English translation (mine) would probably be better as "Nought Four" or even as the digits 0 4 – Nobody… – I have to ask my son who's a Schalke fan (he never fails to go Auf Schalke when he's in Germany) and whose idiomatic sense of English is naturally much better than mine. He might also have an answer for the really difficult Keiner kommt an Gott vorbei, with its subtle double meaning (the phrase originates with Reinhard "Stan" Libuda, as you can see on the German Wikipedia. I'm not sufficiently acquainted with English religious language to know whether there is a phrase vaguely approximating this German term. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:16, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Smiling ... I like that little gem, tried to arrange the line to explain what Schalke 04 is a bit sooner, and dropped the italics from the translation, just as in the Bach cantatas. Perhaps a second translation would help? But I would not change "nullvier" - a title is a title. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:23, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Michael. I was just curious. You put "squeeze" on the discussion page of Maestro Alex Gregory, and I was wondering what that means? :) Lost Josephine Minor (talk) 03:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Normal practice on talk pages is to add one's comment to the bottom of the discussion. I wanted my comment to appear directly beneath yours – to squeeze it in. To indicate the non-standard placement of my comment, I used "(squeeze)". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?