User talk:Wugapodes/Archive 20

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Please

Hi Wugapodes!

Its quite evident that IPs and non-autoconfirmed users are engaged in disruptive editing on Maratha (caste) from quite a while. I raised a request on the project page on 23 May 2021 but it was declined like most of the other requests. I found that you semi-protected the page previously. So, I request you to semi-protect the page for an indefinite period to prevent it from disruptive editing. Shinjoya (talk) 13:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@Shinjoya: I don't think semi-protection is needed just yet, but disruption seems to be coming from multiple IPs these last few days so it's worth re-evaluating Fastily's decline. I've added pending changes for a month to see if that discourages the anonymous editors, but if not I'll increase semi protection. Thanks for letting me know, and leave me another message if things don't improve soon. — Wug·a·po·des​ 05:24, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

17:05, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect User:Ivanvector/Ogedengbe of Ilesa. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 31#User:Ivanvector/Ogedengbe of Ilesa until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Ivanvector's squirrel (^trees/_nuts) 20:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Why do you remove a quote with the reliable independent sources provided? The referenced article mentions the guy is a "political troll"! I will report you for disregarding Wikipedia rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winele8 (talk • contribs) 21:36, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winele8 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello How can I add protection to any page? --anshsaini (talk) 09:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi

requests for page protection by following the instructions there. Let me know if you need help with anythring else! — Wug·a·po·des

​ 20:27, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, how can I post my music on Wikipedia? (My page) --Mik Sun Ug. (talk) 20:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Mik Sun Ug., in order to post music to Wikipedia, you need to upload it to our servers, but importantly, Wikipedia can only accept music that you created and hold the copyright to. If you would like to upload your original music, you will need to license it under a suitable Creative Commons license which allows others to modify and redistribute it under certain conditions. This page will walk you through how to license your music for use on Wikipedia and explain the specifics of what rights you are releasing. Once you finish that, you can add music to any page using the instructions at Help:Sound file markup — Wug·a·po·des​ 20:37, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Wug! What's your favorite type of cat? Mine is the humble "tabby", but other cats are fine too. Looking to get some broader opinions on this. jp×g 09:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Growing up, I had an

American short hair but most recently had a Chinchilla Persian. While those specific cats I had would be my favorite, I wouldn't say either is my favorite breed in general. I've always been fascinated by Maine Coons and would probably pick them as my favorite. I like my domesticated animals on the larger side and adapted for winter or marine climates, so the Maine Coon with its size and cold-hardiness fits nicely into that. It's similar to my favorite dog breed: the Newfoundland. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 18:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

20:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2021).

Administrator changes

Ashleyyoursmile • Less Unless

Husond • MattWade • MJCdetroit • Carioca • Vague Rant • Kingboyk • Thunderboltz • Gwen Gale • AniMate • SlimVirgin (deceased)

Guideline and policy news

• Consensus was reached to deprecate Wikipedia:Editor assistance.
• Following a Request for Comment the Book namespace was deprecated.

Technical news

• Wikimedia previously used the IRC network Freenode. However, due to changes over who controlled the network with reports of a forceful takeover by several ex-staff members, the Wikimedia IRC Group Contacts decided to move to the new Libera Chat network. It has been reported that Wikimedia related channels on Freenode have been forcibly taken over if they pointed members to Libera. There is a migration guide and Wikimedia discussions about this.

Arbitration

• After a
  Reliable Sources Noticeboard
  to discuss disputed sources.

Yes, that non-static anon user based in St.Petersburg Florida is a continuous problem specifically on fire dept Wikipedia pages, most notably Newark NJ Fire Dept. Is his block only for one month, and started on May 21? He really is a disruptive person, and a while back the Newark NJ Fire Dept had temporary page protection and as soon as it expired, about an hour or two later he pounced on the Newark NJ Fire Dept Wikipedia page like a tiger. I suggest that this anonymous non-static user be blocked indefinitely if at all possible. And it's just not the Newark NJ Fire Department page he disrupts others as well. I believe that he may have a case of OCD, or Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He is located in St.Petersburg Florida. Please take my request under consideration. There have been a few times in the past where I made some "questionable" or edits that I failed to provide reference for and Wikipedia users crawled out of the woodwork to admonish me, yet this guy is doing long term disruptive editing and he gets away with it. One question, how can he have so many ip addresses? They're all geo-located to be in St.Petersburg Florida. OK, thank you and please consider my request. Tom Redding and Oshwah also gave me advice as well as others who use the fire Department Wikipedia pages in the NJ area. Thanks again, Doriden Doriden (talk) 09:40, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:/64 for more on this). We typically do not block IP addresses for more than a few weeks at a time and almost never issue indefinite IP blocks (see Wikipedia:Blocking IP addresses#Block lengths). This is because IP addresses are often reallocated which can cause blocks to affect innocent editors without us knowing. Going off the contributions from that range, it seems the allocation is stable, but I don't know how stable which is why I started the range block at 1 month. If the disruption returns after the block expires, let me know and I can block again. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 01:35, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok, thank you sir. I appreciate it. Doriden (talk) 01:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Is it possible to remove the maintenance template added in 2014, "This article relies too much on...."

This page was put together by an intern several years ago and I am finally now updating. If we still don't have enough secondary or tertiary sources, I understand.

I did some editing a few days ago, but I realize now I didn't footnotes when I added "Allan Malcolm Morrison (1916-1968) quoted Earle Pilgrim in "Twilight for Greenwich Village," published in the Negro Digest, Volume VII, Number 3, January 1949, "Bohemians don’t fight or crusade,” said Earl Pilgrim, a gaunt, bearded youth who haunts the San Remo Cafe and relaxes in Washington Park in the late afternoon. "We go on living our lives as we want to live them. To hell with the sneers of society. We’re anti-bourgeois and we’re individualists. We don’t even like the name ’Bohemian.’ It has a bad smell.” He explained the only reason why he used the word was because his philosophy has to have a name and "Bohemian” just happens to be most convenient.""; and, "Earle taught jewelry in adult education programs authorized by the Massachusetts State Board of Education."

Thank you for any reply and please bear with me! Peter --Pjstebbins (talk) 12:41, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pjstebbins: Thanks for your edits! They look good, and hopefully you can add in the source you mention. It still looks like a lot of information comes from primary sources even with your help, so I think it's best to keep the maintenance template for now. Ideally we would prefer reviews of his artwork or independent biographies that can back up what the primary sources are saying, and the template categorizes the page so that editors specializing in that kind of work can find it. Hope that helps and let me know if you have other questions! — Wug·a·po·des​ 01:49, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi..How are You? --মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 12:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi মো.তাজউদ্দিন I'm good, thank you for asking! How are you enjoying Wikipedia? — Wug·a·po·des​ 20:28, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes hi plz chk User:মো.তাজউদ্দিন/sandbox মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 06:58, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@মো.তাজউদ্দিন: This is good work! I will give you detailed feedback in the morning though as I'm about to go to sleep, but I look forward to reading more from you. If you need help before I wake up, the Teahouse is a friendly place and usually pretty fast with answering questions. — Wug·a·po·des​ 07:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes ok মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 10:07, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes Hi Dear, is it Ok? Can I mooved on main article? Your feedback is important for me because you are my mentor link User:মো.তাজউদ্দিন/sandbox

Thanks

মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 15:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@

move the page. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 19:42, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes Dear i fix it plz see User:মো.তাজউদ্দিন/sandbox is it ok right now? can i move main article? মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 06:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes Dear is it ok ? . plz check if ok plz move this main articles name Harun Ar Rashid মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 19:00, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@

Help:Move, but I can still move it if you'd like. The only question I have is where you got the picture used in the article. If you took the picture yourself, then you're fine, but if you found it on the internet or were given permission to use the photo then there are some extra steps I'll need to tell you about. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 01:43, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes Dear is it ok ? . plz check if ok plz move this main articles name Harun Ar Rashid i can't move on main articles. plz move thank মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 09:14, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

No problem, I can move it for you. The move more complicated than I expected, but I should have it done in about an hour. — Wug·a·po·des​ 16:47, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes Thank You মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 17:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Wugapodes are you busy ? plz move মো.তাজউদ্দিন (talk) 19:31, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I got distracted by work and only just got back to encyclopedia stuff. As I'm looking into this, I'm not sure I can move it yet as there are some problems I'm only just now seeing. For example,

our policy on writing about living people requires that we use high quality sources for all material about living people, and some of the sources don't seem to support what's written in the article. Also, it seems that this page has been deleted before, and the creator seems to have been banned which means I need to take a closer look at why and whether this article is different from the ones that got deleted (otherwise it will just get deleted again). Sorry that things are taking so long, but writing a new article is one of the harder activities for new editors to do. While I look into this, you might want to try working on some pages in Category:Articles needing cleanup from May 2021. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 23:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm surprised by this assessment. IMDb is not a reliable source, and the sources cited for his education don't provide verification for his attendance/graduation, just that the schools exist. Nardog (talk) 17:00, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the long message! When you say that I have to move images to Wikipedia and not commons....what does that mean? Also, to make it worth inclusion, do I just have to find more sources writing about it? Thanks!! Archiecrowley (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi

notability. Have other publications taken note of it or have other publications written standalone articles about the subject? If so then Wikipedia probably should too. Otherwise, it is usually better to include the info in a pre-existing article. I've only done a quick google search so you might know better than me, but I don't think the conference has been covered in that way. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 20:24, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:List of law life peerages/2021 edit request

I am in the process for 1958-1979.

Hope you are well.

Plus I think that there should be an article of the Chairman and CEO of Ofcom, with predecessor organisations.

Mr Hall of England (talk) 20:42, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done. If you write a draft at User:Mr Hall of england/Sandbox for the Ofcom CEO I can review it and move the article for you. — Wug·a·po·des​ 21:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Despite the fact that the idea of "Furmont" is rather abhorrent, I have been exposed to new mediums of entertainment. Thank you for your contributions.

Vermont (talk) 05:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Your feedback is requested at

hello --Priya Suman 11 (talk) 19:00, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

20:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for cleaning up my mess Bibeyjj! I was about to start a new GA review so I'm glad you pointed this out to me; I'll remember to update the project banners if the article is promoted. — Wug·a·po·des​ 23:19, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Wugapodes. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{

ygm}} template.Doriden (talk

) 01:39, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Please Wugapodes that person who continues to persistently disrupt the Newark NJ fire dept Wikipedia page has did it again. This time from another ip address, same location. He is blocked until June 21, but he now used another ip address that has been used before too. I ask for page Protection or block this person for persistent disruptive editing behavior. Please help me out. Thanks, Doriden Doriden (talk) 01:39, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Wugapodes,

May I ask your advice please?

I published an extensive revision of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federation_of_Indian_Communities_of_Queensland_Inc

I deleted a 'laundry list' of commercial event sponsors

I remain conflicted about the last sentence: the individual is using his past presidency with a cultural organisation to promote his political aspirations. What are your thoughts please?

Thank you --Losveras (talk) 22:13, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, that non-static roaming ip address that is blocked until June 27 did disruptive editing to several different sites on Thursday, it is the same person, geolocation is same city and state. Also, the exact same subject matter that he disrupts. I would like to block this person for persistent disruptive editing behavior. Not only to the Newark NJ fire dept Wikipedia page but the FDNY page and several other ones. If you look at his editing history they all get reverted and talked to but he doesn't listen. Please help me out with this Wugapodes. Thank you, Doriden Doriden (talk) 16:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

As I said on Doriden's talk, I'm away until later this week. If any talk page watchers want to field this request, I'm sure we would both appreciate it. — Wug·a·po·des​ 14:44, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

15:48, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Nothing --ലോലിപോപ്പ് സാബു പു (talk) 14:17, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Wugapodes, what do you think of the hooks at Template:Did you know nominations/Homobiles? I haven't transcluded it for review yet. DanCherek (talk) 01:42, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I like them, though I'm trying to think up some fun ones. Based on the NPR story "And a lot of cabs and stuff won't take people with, you know, they don't like glitter in their cabs." I thought about

... that Homobiles helps drag queens keep glitter out of taxis?

I'll need to work that into the article, but I think it's vague enough to get readers to click through and get the answer of "how" they do that. there's also the slogan from the BuzzFeed article He kills it with the slogan — "Moes gettin' hoes where they needz to goes." which I think could make a fun hook:

... that Homobiles gets hoes where they need to go?

with a bit of a surprise link from "hoes" to "drag queen" though maybe sex worker might be a better target? Anyway, I made a few edits and plan to make more once I come back from dinner. Let me know your thoughts if you get a chance in the meantime. — Wug·a·po·des​ 02:23, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Ha, I love those! Very flashy hooks and way more fun than mine. The first one in particular conjures some effective imagery, I think. DanCherek (talk) 02:36, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Added the first to the DYK nom and copyedited the article including some expansion to cover the new hook. Let me know when you transclude the nom. — Wug·a·po·des​ 08:24, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done, and the article looks awesome, thanks! DanCherek (talk) 12:48, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Your feedback is requested at

Hello hi I would like to create an article about a retired ambassador who had a strong hand in many politics going on in saudi any helpful suggestions --Doc.mirza (talk) 08:39, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

16:31, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, that roaming ip address that block just expired today is at it again. Several of his edits have been reverted already by other editors. This person needs to be banned. He apparently doesn't care about anything. His OCD should be treated by a psychiatrist, not taken out on Wikipedia. Thank you Doriden (talk) 02:53, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:BLP. I understand your frustration, but if you violate NPA again you may be blocked from editing. (2) When reporting an issue, it helps to provide links. The partial IP address you gave covers 34 billion possible addresses. I need something more specific than that, and forcing me to hunt around for what you're talking about reduces the chances that your request will be fulfilled quickly. Even a link to the article you're talking about is better than nothing. (3) I've blocked 2603:9000:9907:1100:0:0:0:0/64 for three months given that they immediately resumed their disruptive editing. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 20:04, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I apologize for making a statement about this disruptive editors mental health, I didn't know that it was against Wikipedia rules. Yes, as soon as his month block expired he went on a disruptive marathon. By blocking this one ip address that this person uses does it cover all the other roaming addresses coming from his computer? Hankscorpio thinks that it is Zackman08 doing sockpuppetry. He has also been known to use an address starting with 172. By mistake I wrote this message on his talk page thinking that I was on your talk page. Can I remove it? Again, my apologies and thanks for your assistance with this matter. Doriden (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

@

sockpuppet investigation where more experienced editors can investigate the claim. As a technical note to myself, I checked up to the /57 range and it seems like no one else is on this subnet and that the activity is restricted to /64. — Wug·a·po·des

​ 00:59, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

OK, thanks Wugapodes. I appreciate your help and advice. Doriden (talk) 03:36, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for improving articles in June, with some impressions of places, flowers and music for you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:32, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Nice to hear from you again

Brandt's Cormorants, and I got a nice photo of a mated pair nesting for use in that article. I also just got back from a trip to Buffalo, and I was there to catch the news of their mayoral primary. I was up late enough to see the election get called for India Walton and got to start the page and edit it alongside a few others. I'm looking forward to seeing your list grow! — Wug·a·po·des

​ 22:02, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Excellent! . I guess I'd crop the nesting pic, to focus on the pair without a headless bird above ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

I thought the same thing when I looked at the page again — Wug·a·po·des​ 00:11, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for what you said on User talk:SlimVirgin - missing pictured on my talk, with music full of hope and reformation --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Good article nominations | July 2021 Backlog Drive
July 2021 Backlog Drive: This Thursday, July 1, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number, length, and age, of articles reviewed. Interested in taking part? You can sign up here .
Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage
You're receiving this message because you have conducted 10+ good article reviews or participated in the March backlog drive. Click here to opt out of any future messages. --Usernameunique

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:31, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

The third round of the 2021 WikiCup has now come to an end. Each of the sixteen contestants who made it into the fourth round had at least 294 points, and our top six scorers all had over 600 points. They were:

• The Rambling Man, with 1825 points from 3 featured articles, 44 featured article reviews, 14 good articles, 30 good article reviews and 10 DYKs. In addition, he completed a 34-article good topic on the EFL Championship play-offs.
• Epicgenius, a New York specialist, with 1083 points from 2 featured article reviews, 18 good articles, 30 DYKs and plenty of bonus points.
• Bloom6132, with 869 points from 11 DYKs, all with bonus points, and 54 "In the news" items, mostly covering people who had recently died.
• Gog the Mild, with 817 points from 3 featured articles on historic battles in Europe, 5 featured article reviews and 3 good articles.
• Hog Farm, with 659 points from 2 featured articles and 2 good articles on American Civil War battles, 18 featured article reviews, 2 good articles, 6 good article reviews and 4 DYKs.
• BennyOnTheLoose, a snooker specialist and new to the Cup, with 647 points from a featured article, 2 featured article reviews, 6 good articles, 6 good article reviews and 3 DYKs.

In round three, contestants achieved 19 featured articles, 7 featured lists, 106 featured article reviews, 72 good articles, 1 good topic, 62 good article reviews, 165 DYKs and 96 ITN items. We enter the fourth round with scores reset to zero; any content promoted after the end of round 3 but before the start of round 4 can be claimed in round 4. Please also remember that you must claim your points within 14 days of "earning" them (one contestant in round 3 lost out because of this). When doing GARs, please make sure that you check that all the GA criteria are fully met.

If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article nominations, a featured process, or anything else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on

Hello Wugapodes, it appears that the blocked persistent disruptive editor who has been using 2603.9000.9907 and who is blocked for 90 days for the stated behavior is now using 172.58.172.6 same city and state, same subject matter, and same type of disruptive editing behavior. Hankscorpio has been reverting them all night and day. Is this considered sockpuppetry? I'm sorry to bother you with this stuff again. I asked Hankscorpio and mcchizzle to contact the administration about this so it doesn't look like I'm the only person complaining. Thanks again, Doriden (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2021).

Administrator changes Trialpears AGK • Eliz81 • Mulad • ThaddeusB • Vianello • Who Lacrimosus → Ikuzaf Interface administrator changes Ragesoss

CheckUser changes AGK • DGG Oversighter changes AGK

Guideline and policy news

• WP:REFUND
  even after the namespace is removed.
• An
  TFAs
  .

Technical news

• IP addresses of unregistered users are to be hidden from everyone. There is a rough draft of how IP addresses may be shown to users who need to see them. This currently details allowing administrators, checkusers, stewards and those with a new usergroup to view the full IP address of unregistered users. Editors with at least 500 edits and an account over a year old will be able to see all but the end of the IP address in the proposal. The ability to see the IP addresses hidden behind the mask would be dependent on agreeing to not share the parts of the IP address they can see with those who do not have access to the same information. Accessing part of or the full IP address of a masked editor would also be logged. Comments on the draft are being welcomed at the talk page.

Arbitration

• The community authorised
  COVID-19 discretionary sanctions following a motion
  at a case request. Alerts given and sanctions placed under the community authorised general sanctions are now considered alerts for and sanctions under the new discretionary sanctions.

17:32, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Good evening Wugapodes,

I know you had asked me to get back to you re. the

I'll wait for the copyedit to finish up just so that I don't step on their toes. I'll add it to my watchlist and get started when the edits seem to have slowed down, but feel free to drop me a line whnever it's over. Thanks for the update! — Wug·a·po·des​ 00:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

@

talk

) 21:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dekema: thanks for the heads up. I will start it this weekend. — Wug·a·po·des​ 05:23, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Wugapodes, the user based in Florida with the roaming ip 2603.9000.9907 who you blocked for 3 months for persistent disruptive editing behavior is back, this time using 172.58.172.6. Hankscorpio has reverted most of what he has been doing. Same subject matter, same area of Florida. This guy must be held accountable for his actions. Thanks, Doriden (talk) 13:36, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I was away this weekend and missed this, but Ohnoitsjamie blocked the range a couple hours after this post. Thanks Doriden and Hank for your vigilance and Jamie for quickly handling this! — Wug·a·po·des​ 05:26, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I can't find an option for the cat {{

@

Gaioa: Done, thanks for letting me know! — Wug·a·po·des

​ 05:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

(same question to Ori Livneh)

peace. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk)

Hi Kipod, I've been busy with other meatspace work so haven't been able to do much on phab or with the codebase. I'm still willing to help, but I don't believe I can lead the project through deployment. The process is not well documented and at times the documentation is outright wrong. Ori seems to understand that process much better than I do, so I've been deferring to them on the deployment timeline. Hopefully they are still interested in helping with that. I should have some spare time next week and will prioritize getting started on the configuration changes. — Wug·a·po·des​ 05:46, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Thx for the update.

Peace. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 13:18, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Wugapodes, I think your comments is the off mark, when you say "I'm personally beyond the point of assuming a good faith misunderstanding about the scope of the ban." I was banned in August of 2020, in November a minor issue came up about what Secular Politics covered and you clarified that it not only related to Christianity and Politics, but issues related to religious believes which impact Politics (on matters such as Abortion, LGBT, etc.). Since then, I stayed out of the fray with no problems. Now, in July 2021, two minor issues came up, one small factual correction on the Belarus page, in which I admitted that I just forgot my self and was willing to revert, and the Holocaust article, where originally I removed the "Distinctive features" section which included Genocidal State, Collaboration and Medical Experiments sub-section, arguing on the talk page that the section pushes a particular POV on Collaboration and acts as a pseudo introduction paragraph in the article. In this case, I did not read through the entire thing and did not realize there was a short reference to some point connected with Christianity. Again, I admitted that this was an oversight on my part. Yet, you want to accuse me of bad faith. Seriously, what is my strategy here, to wait months and months to make a small edit? My behavior does not display characteristic of someone who is flaunting the TBAN rules, trying to make a statement or to fight the power. These were minor errors on my part to which I admitted and was willing to revert. --E-960 (talk) 13:43, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

@E-960: Thank you for your note, and I'm sorry that my frustration resulted in stronger implications than I intended. You may want to read my latest reply to Girth Summit which hopefully clarifies my thoughts. But to give you the courtesy of a direct reply: many people last August believed you should not be editing any European politics topics at all. Just because there was insufficient consensus to force you to stop does not mean it is a good idea to keep going. Part of why you avoided that more stringent topic ban was because of your recognition of responsibility in suggesting a voluntary TBAN and the assumption that you will take the opinions of editors there into account beyond just the TBAN. This is what I meant when I said "beyond the point of assuming good faith..."; instead of taking into account the large number of editors who think you should avoid all European politics topics, you continue to edit around the edges which is why you accidentally violate your TBAN. When the community believes your edits in an area are so problematic that they must be prohibited entirely you must work harder to ensure that you will not accidentally violate your TBAN. Yes, that is hard and a lot of work: that is the point. A TBAN is not simply a prohibition, it is also a disincentive. If editing in an area not covered by your topic ban makes it too hard to avoid accidentally violating your topic ban then it is probably a bad idea to be editing that broader topic even if not expressly prohibited. That is a feature, not a bug. That advice is doubly true when the original TBAN discussion had multiple editors saying they think you should be prohibited from editing that wider area as well. — Wug·a·po·des​ 19:22, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Wugapodes, I don't know if you'll see this or not. You said at the admin noticeboard that you'd welcome fresh eyes. Mine are certainly the eyes of an outsider, with no axe to grind, but I'm not an admin, so I can't give an opinion there.

I think it would be very helpful to ask some questions: (1) Has @E-960:'s recent editing and behaviour at talk-pages been constructive or destructive? If it's been destructive, there is no need to worry about the old ban - you can simply address the current behaviour. If (2) it's been constructive, the question is why you'd want to inflict sanctions? The only reason I can imagine is to maintain discipline, "pour encourager les autres". That's why, as one of "les autres" I feel qualified to ask the third question: What message would you want sanctions against E-960 to convey? At the moment, to an outsider reading ANI, the whole thing risks sending a message that WP's admins can't write an unambiguous ban, but think it doesn't matter because one can always reach a consensus on what it was supposed to mean, later, and inflict justice retrospectively. That just doesn't look fair. To put it harshly, if the admins can't agree amongst themselves what the ban was supposed to mean - what they wanted E-960 to do - then they can't really expect E-960 to have done it.

That brings me to a second point: the phrase "broadly construed" only strengthens clearly-defined bans. It weakens any TBAN that contains a hint of ambiguity, because it invites the response "but construed broadly, that encompasses absolutely everything, which is clearly unfair!" That, I think, is why this debate has come up so many times.

I personally would recommend starting again: scrap the wording of the old ban, because although it was well-meant and seemed sensible at the time, it's proven ambiguous. The problem is the word "secular" which carries two different meanings (at least to non-technical readers). It could be construed (narrowly) in this context, as anything about the politics of exclusion of religion from public affairs. Or it could be construed (widely) as meaning anything about politics that's not specifically religious politics (which is actually almost the opposite of the narrow meaning, because in the narrow meaning, "secular" is used as an opposite to "religious", in the way that "good" is the opposite of "bad"; so secular political debates in this context are always religious political debates, i.e. religious viewpoint versus non-religious viewpoint). I suspect the ban was supposed to be taken in the narrower sense, and again here, the unfortunate phrase "broadly construed" has opened up the possibility of the second. All I'd say is good luck! The current situation is obviously causing a lot of wasted time and stress to multiple people, including E-960. If anything I've said here is remotely useful to anyone, you are obviously welcome to use it as appropriate. Good luck! And many thanks to all admins for the efforts you make to keep things working smoothly! Elemimele (talk) 20:39, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

@Elemimele: Thank you for perspective. I appreciate your thoughts and need some time to think them over. I haven't had time to look back at the ANI thread (or do much of anything onwiki), but if you haven't participated, I believe your perspective there would be very helpful in framing the discussion. Institutional inertia is a real thing, and it can be hard to think outside the box once we have taken certain courses of action. I'll say more when I've had time to collect my thoughts. — Wug·a·po·des​ 20:12, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

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