Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crime against foreigners in India
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 | This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2008 August 3. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete, implemented as a redirect to Crime in India so that content can be merged from the history without breaking GFDL compliance. Sandstein (talk) 08:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Crime against foreigners in India
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Contested PROD. Content may be notable but is non-encyclopedic, certainly not deserving of an article of its own. Delete. Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 16:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - article isn't really encyclopedic at all. Agree with nom. TheIslander 16:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Many places in India, like Agra, Rajasthan are popular destinationas among international tourists. And as I have stated, crime occurs in India against foreigners only which are different from general crime in India. Like the scams, the passprt thefts. And the rapes. Rape incidents of foreigners is increasing in India. Bureau of Consular Affairs warned US women not to travel alone in India. This is a big issue. All these non-notable? Non-encyclopedic? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 05:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Keep - There is no reason behind claiming that is article is nonencyclopedic. There are articles like Gun violence in the United States, List of journalists killed in Russia, Caste-related violence in India and so many, all of which are issue-specific. This article is also issue-specific i.e. the criminal incidents foreigners face in India. Foreigners face criminal incidents in India, they face, that is a fact, and many of such incidents have been discussed in the media. If List of journalists killed in Russia be an article, then why not this? So this particular issue can obviously be an article and there is no reason behind claiming this nonencyclopedic. Otolemur crassicaudatus 16:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply What's in the article right now does not sound to me like the kind of crime that specifically targets foreigners. Except for stealing passports, but that is not specific to India either. The information in this article should simply be added to various other articles about crime. --Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 17:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- There are scams which are committed against foreigners only. Travellers from richer nations are more preferable targets of robbers because of there high purchasing parity. Rape cases on female tourists in India is increasing. All these facts are now added. These are different and issue-specific than general crime in India.Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply What's in the article right now does not sound to me like the kind of crime that specifically targets foreigners. Except for stealing passports, but that is not specific to India either. The information in this article should simply be added to various other articles about crime. --Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 17:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete. I can see a reason for this article, but there's no evidence from the article that the crime is specifically against foreigners. All of it could be subsumed under the general title of Crime in India, and "oh, yeah, it also happens to foreigners".--Prosfilaes 16:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply This issue will be mentioned in Crime in India article, as there are mention of Corruption in India, Religious violence in India etc, but for all there is a separate article. But in Crime in India article, it would be impossible to mention elaborately about the crimes comitted against foreign citizens. I have just created the article. It would be expanded gradually. There are several incidents of crimes against foreign citizens and tourists in India. There are several rape cases reported in India against foreign citizens. Some high profile cases caused huge upheaval among the political circles also. And there are crimes which are specifically committed against foreign citizens only. Like the scam incidents, the criminal only target foreign citizens. There are several incidents of passport thefts against foreign citizens only. And there are so many. Hence the need of this article. Otolemur crassicaudatus 17:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with Blanchardb above; yes, crimes happen against foreigners, but not generally because they're foreigners. Passport thefts aren't specific to India, and the scams are linked to a Canadian page, which says for more information see [1], which is a completely general page that doesn't mention India.
- Instead of arguing here, I think you're much better off working on the article. If you can expand the article and fix the issues that we're complaining about, current votes may be changed, and future votes will most likely be cast differently. It's much more likely than that any arguments directly posted to this page will help.--Prosfilaes 17:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge with Crime in India - while not notable on its own, it would make a good sub-heading in that article. If the information in this article can stand on its own, it belongs there. -FrankTobia 18:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral; I'm changing my vote, because I think it was entirely unfair to put this article up for AfD less than an hour after it was created. It's a lot easier to judge this article and most any article once it's had time to be created and settle.--Prosfilaes 18:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]- Merge or Keep; if there's plenty of space in Crime in India, let's move it there.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Delete No need for such an article. Crime in India has plenty of space for such text. Most of this is unreferenced Nikkul 21:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment; Seems pretty well-referenced to me.--Prosfilaes 21:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 06:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Delete: This article does not make any sense at all. Passport theft is a big issue faced by tourists visiting Italy. Attacks by neo-nazis against foreigners are increasing day-by-day in Germany. Such incidents happen around the world and are not typical to India (Eventhough the attacks in Germany were carried out because the victims were foreigners). So delete this nonsensical and nonencyclopedic article as soon as possible. Madhavacharya (talk) 17:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nonsensical? You yourself admit that it does make sense, that these things are happening. Just because things happen around the world, doesn't mean that the specific manifestations in India are not worthy of an article.--Prosfilaes (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I said these things happen 'around the world' not just in India. If you are keen on stating these incidents, that's fine, but then you have to make such pages for all the countries. But you still don't understand one thing. The incidents happened in India were not against foreigners. Indians also get targeted by such attacks. But the attacks in Germany, for example, were carried out 'only' because the victims were foreigners. So this article is more fitting for Germany and some other european countries. Madhavacharya (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand very well that some of the attacks were carried out specifically against foreigners, like the passport fraud and some of the scams. And the rapes; [2] quotes Jannelie Brink of Holland as saying that "There seems to be a general feeling among Indian men that a woman from the West is easily available". And no, we don't have to simultaneously create articles on the subject for every country in the world. They can be created as needed and as desired.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Why don't you understand that passport theft happen in many other countries also? Wikipedia is not place to mention someone's "feelings" about women of the West. Why don't we have to create simultaneous articles about other countries although the attacks there are targeted at foreigners? Madhavacharya (talk) 08:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- In India several crimes are comitted against foreigners only, many scam incidents are occured against foreigners only, scam artists prey for foreign tourists. Because of US citizens' high purchasing power, they become preffered targets of criminals. Rape incidents on foreigners is incresing, it is an important and significant issue. Articles on other countries may be created, that doesn't mean this article cannot be kept. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 12:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- You are just repeating your arguments. All these crimes are committed in other countries also. You have not been able to provide any reason for creating such an article just for India. It will be more fitting to create an article about Israeli tourists' drug deals and other foreigners' attempts to smuggle rare animals from India. Madhavacharya (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not repeating my arguments. I am giving the reason for this article. It is you who is repeating the arguments. If necessary articles ralating to other countries can obviously be created. That doesn't mean this article cannot be kept.Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 14:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Repeating the same flawed arguments to the point of tedium seem to be the user's forte. I direct attention to Talk:Human rights in India where he tried to pull off the same stunt. Ghanadar galpa (talk) 12:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- You are just repeating your arguments. All these crimes are committed in other countries also. You have not been able to provide any reason for creating such an article just for India. It will be more fitting to create an article about Israeli tourists' drug deals and other foreigners' attempts to smuggle rare animals from India. Madhavacharya (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- In India several crimes are comitted against foreigners only, many scam incidents are occured against foreigners only, scam artists prey for foreign tourists. Because of US citizens' high purchasing power, they become preffered targets of criminals. Rape incidents on foreigners is incresing, it is an important and significant issue. Articles on other countries may be created, that doesn't mean this article cannot be kept. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 12:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Why don't you understand that passport theft happen in many other countries also? Wikipedia is not place to mention someone's "feelings" about women of the West. Why don't we have to create simultaneous articles about other countries although the attacks there are targeted at foreigners? Madhavacharya (talk) 08:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand very well that some of the attacks were carried out specifically against foreigners, like the passport fraud and some of the scams. And the rapes; [2] quotes Jannelie Brink of Holland as saying that "There seems to be a general feeling among Indian men that a woman from the West is easily available". And no, we don't have to simultaneously create articles on the subject for every country in the world. They can be created as needed and as desired.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I said these things happen 'around the world' not just in India. If you are keen on stating these incidents, that's fine, but then you have to make such pages for all the countries. But you still don't understand one thing. The incidents happened in India were not against foreigners. Indians also get targeted by such attacks. But the attacks in Germany, for example, were carried out 'only' because the victims were foreigners. So this article is more fitting for Germany and some other european countries. Madhavacharya (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nonsensical? You yourself admit that it does make sense, that these things are happening. Just because things happen around the world, doesn't mean that the specific manifestations in India are not worthy of an article.--Prosfilaes (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This are not flawed arguments. And don't try to disrupt this discussion. This page is purely for debate over the article. I direct attention to this from where other users may be able to know about user Ghanadar's motivations. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 15:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The reason why we don't have to create every article at once is because we're a volunteer organization, not a bureaucracy. If some one wants to create an article about a notable subject, they can, and others can create articles about their notable subjects when they feel like doing so. He has all the reason he need for creating this articles and not the others; he wants to create this article and not the others.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: The primary instigator of this article (and other similar anti-India articles in recent days, mr otomelur Crassicaudatus, is presently engaged in a campaign of vote-stacking for this AfD)[3]Ghanadar galpa (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The reason why we don't have to create every article at once is because we're a volunteer organization, not a bureaucracy. If some one wants to create an article about a notable subject, they can, and others can create articles about their notable subjects when they feel like doing so. He has all the reason he need for creating this articles and not the others; he wants to create this article and not the others.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is no vote-casting policy from me, nor I am anti-Indian. I just want to inform other editors who are interested in the subject. Good editors give vote according to their own judgement. They are not influenced by others. User Ghanadar galpa is busy to spread a dirty propaganda against me and articles I have created. This page is not for discussing about particular editor. So I cannot put much information about Ghanadar here. To know more about user Ghanadar galpa, see this Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 15:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: The primary instigator of this article, User Otolemur Crassicaudatus, is presently trolling multiple talk pages trying to canvass for votes and making some pretty nasty accusations against me (all tedious, repetitive and unsubstantiated), not to mention full of some of the most offensively hateful bigotry and prejudice that I have seen to date. Voters need to take note of this.[4][5]. [6][7] [8][9].Should I report him? Ghanadar galpa (talk) 19:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- See here. TheIslander 20:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- What does this have to do with this page? This is for discussing the existence of the article in question, not discussing the behavior of Otolemur crassicaudatus or Ghanadar galpa.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- ...which is why I said "see here", i.e. continue discussion in the correct place, and end it here. You, however, have continued it. End this discussion now, and continue it in the appropriate places, as per my link above. TheIslander 23:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: The primary instigator of this article, User Otolemur Crassicaudatus, is presently trolling multiple talk pages trying to canvass for votes and making some pretty nasty accusations against me (all tedious, repetitive and unsubstantiated), not to mention full of some of the most offensively hateful bigotry and prejudice that I have seen to date. Voters need to take note of this.[4][5]. [6][7] [8][9].Should I report him? Ghanadar galpa (talk) 19:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - The information therein if noteworthy can be included under a sub-heading in Crime in India article. -Shyamsunder 07:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- To merge information from the article, it can't be deleted, because that creates problems with the GFLD. That's what the Merge vote is for.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - OC has created a bunch of nonsensical articles that really serve no purpose except to bash india.Bakaman 21:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nonsensical? This is a fairly well-sourced article on the subject. It is biased, it's filled with examples instead of synthesis (which would be harder to source, but more useful), but it is anything but nonsensical.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nonsensical is a poor choice of word. Plain not-needed would be better. There is nothing in this article which suggests that any of this crim in India directed against tourists is specific to India, therefore though a sub-section in the main 'Crime in India' article would probably be a good idea, the content is certainly not notable enough for it's own article. TheIslander 00:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Nonsensical? This is a fairly well-sourced article on the subject. It is biased, it's filled with examples instead of synthesis (which would be harder to source, but more useful), but it is anything but nonsensical.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.