Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phakamani Mngadi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There is clear consensus that players who scrape over the line of the SNG and can be shown to have essentially ended their careers are not presumed to pass GNG unless clear sources can be presented. Fenix down (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Phakamani Mngadi

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Article about semi-pro footballer who made 1 substitute's appearance (a total of 3 minutes of play) with a fully-pro club. The article so narrowly reaches the presumption of notability at NFOOTBALL that without satisfying the GNG it cannot be viewed as notable (plenty of AfD precedent exists to say that barely passing NFOOTBALL is not enough when you fail GNG, see Oscar Otazu, Vyacheslav Seletskiy, Aleksandr Salimov, Andrei Semenchuk, Artyom Dubovsky, Cosmos Munegabe, Marios Antoniades, Scott Sinclair, Fredrik Hesselberg-Meyer, Matheus Eccard, Roland Szabó (2nd nomination), Metodija Stepanovski, Linas Klimavičius, Takumi Ogawa, Nicky Fish and Andrei Nițu, amongst others). All of the online coverage of this person in secondary sources appears to be transfer news, statistics databases or match reports (e.g., routine coverage), and there are a handful of brief articles published by his employers (Eupen or Kaizer Chiefs) which I don't believe are secondary sources. I can't see how this article satisfies the GNG. Jogurney (talk) 15:39, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I noticed that this article was previously included in a bundled AfD here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ntuthuko Radebe. However, the discussion did not consider his 3 minutes of fame as that occurred after the AfD was closed. Jogurney (talk) 15:46, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:21, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:21, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:22, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:23, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep passes
WP:FOOTY exist to provide for the inclusion of certain defined subjects that cannot immediately be shown to pass GNG. An SNG provides for a presumption of notability, not a presumption of non-notability An SNG cannot be used to exclude/delete an article when the subject passes GNG, but the reverse is patently absurd because that would negate the entire reason for the existence of SNGs particularly for a player currently playing and only 24 years old.Not players who have retired.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:49, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
- Mngadi has been without a club since May 2017 when he was released by Eupen. I wouldn't assume he is "currently playing" without a source (I found that he had an unsuccessful 2-week trial with Golden Arrows in August 2018, but there are no other signs that he has continued a footballing career). Moreover, I never suggested NFOOTBALL provides a preumption of non-notability - I agreed that it provides a presumption of notability - just that it can be rebutted, as I think it should be in this instance. Jogurney (talk) 22:16, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per Jogurney; there is plenty of past AFD consensus which shows that technically scraping by on NFOOTBALL is not enough with a comprehensive GNG failure (as is the case here). The 'allowance' we grant players is usually reserved for youngsters who are at the beginning of the career; as Jogurney says, given he has not had a club for 2 years it is likely his career has ended, with nothing to show for it that merits and article on Wikipedia. Giant Snowman 14:42, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
:
Highlands Park coach Da Gama says ""they have used the international break to work on some areas where they have struggled‚ as well as look at potential new players.These include former Sundowns defender Mzikayise Mashaba‚ ex-Kaizer Chiefs wingers Phakamani Mngadi and Abia Nale‚ as well as former Ajax Cape Town forward Tendai Ndoro‚ who is into his third week with the team.Nobody has been signed yet‚ though I have left the Tendai Ndoro negotiations up to [club CEO] Larry Brookstone." As per this article on 12 September 2018. Being out of contract does not mean retired for 24 year old.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
- This simply means that Mngadi had two unsuccessful trials during August and September 2018. It suggests he is not performing at a level where a fully-pro team would contract his services (not to mention he literally has only played 3 minutes at that level in his entire career). It does not suggest he is "currently playing" at a professional level (or even at a semi-professional level). Jogurney (talk) 04:11, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete
WP:GNG, sources seem a little run of the mill, Govvy (talk) 16:30, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Keep As others have pointed out, he passes
WP:FPL teams in 2016-17 as well. Smartyllama (talk) 19:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Keep passes
WP:NFOOTY with flying colors, having played in two professional leagues. Editors cannot override consensuses and target stubs for deletion just because they feel like it. Inter&anthro (talk) 00:51, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I am following long-standing consensus - check out some of the many AfDs I linked above. Jogurney (talk) 02:30, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes NFOOTY. Appreciate whats been said above, but deleting articles in this way just brings inconsistency as it doesn't have any real effect on the supposed wider issue - evidently, otherwise there wouldn't be editors questioning it here and at
talk) 08:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Delete semi-pros are inherently non-notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per GiantSnowman and others above. In this instance, the NFOOTY presumption is rebutted by the lack of sources to satisfy GNG, the very low playing time, and the two years that have passed since he's had a club. Levivich 01:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes NFOOTY, and had fully professional games in 2 professional leagues.--Ortizesp (talk) 22:35, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He played 3 minutes in one fully-pro league. He also played 9 minutes in a cup match against D2 Roeselaere (cup matches between clubs from fully-pro leagues are considered roughly the same under NFOOTBALL). So, he has a total of 12 minutes of "fame." Jogurney (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Seems notable to me, considering his appearance is with Kaizer Chiefs, who are one of the largest teams in the Sub-Sahara, and Eupen is a D1 club.--Ortizesp (talk) 00:01, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.