Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 30

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November 30

Category:Actresses by city or town

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated for the first two. For
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 01:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: opposed at speedy. However, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_22#Category:People_by_city_or_town. Mason (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
copy of speedy discussion
@Ceyockey and Aidan721: pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Mason (talk) 21:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom. Better consistency. –Aidan721 (talk) 21:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Updated to add the other two. Sorry for the double @Aidan721:. Mason (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Prussian military personnel

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 01:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category Mason (talk) 19:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary in Bosnia and Herzegovina

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection we don't categorize doctors by where they practice Mason (talk) 19:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Novel awards by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: deleted under G7.
talk) 01:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: made in error Themightyquill (talk) 09:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Comics characters with spider powers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete Category:Comics characters with spider powers. Category:Fictional characters with spider powers would need to have a separate discussion on its own right first. bibliomaniac15 06:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge both Category:Marvel Comics characters with spider powers and Category:Comics characters with spider powers into Category:Fictional characters with spider powers. AHI-3000 (talk) 18:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: It actually included more pages and subcats, but looks like they were removed by other users, likely AHI-3000. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 11:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IIRC, most of the content was already concentrated in Category:Marvel Comics characters with spider powers to begin with. AHI-3000 (talk) 18:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Incest in legend

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Incest in legend

Category:Agricultural researchers in India

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus. bibliomaniac15 06:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category, merge in principle, but I've already added each person to their specific vocation (such as Botanists active in India, Indian agronomists). the parent category "Researchers in India" was merged into Indian scientists. Mason (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
keep and improve I would argue that agricultural researchers cross traditional expertise categories and were/are supported by the governments both British and Indian. Includes a mix of chemists, microbiologists, pathologist, biochemists, entomologists, botanists, plant breeders, statisticians, and so on. Shyamal (talk) 02:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How do you suggest we improve it? Because the name at present isn't helpful. Is this category supposed to be about agricultural researchers active in India? Is it supposed to be indian nationals who are agricultural researchers? Mason (talk) 02:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As indicated by the wording, it is nationality and time agnostic. There is a fairly well defined circumscription for "agricultural research". Agricultural research was and is a major field of research with colonial and socialist sponsorship. You added
Leslie C. Coleman to "botanists" (for having described one species of fungus!), that would be a very poor descriptor for a person who held a position as a "director of agriculture" in India and came from Canada. The loss of historical context is huge in removing this category which potentially has a very large number of notables. I am sure the same could be done for work in other countries, it just happens that the classification is currently lacking parallels from other countries. In places like the US there is the Agricultural Research Service under the USDA. In India there is the ICAR but a category like "ICAR employee" would be too restrictive and could at best be a subcategory as there are state as well as federal services. In some languages like French "Agronomy" is considered equalent to "agricultural science" but the term agronomy as used in India is a subset of agricultural science and research. Shyamal (talk) 13:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
So I understand that you @Shyamal thought the wording was clear, but given the conventions for categories, this category would be named "Indian agricultural researchers" if the researchers were "Indian nationals", or Agricultural researchers active in India if the researchers were defined by the location of their research, which I think is what you mean by "nationality [...] agnostic"
Can you point to some example occupation categories that match what you have in mind? Because I thought medical researchers was a close analogue. Mason (talk) 22:14, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison: I am not sure what more is needed - there are categories like Category:Research_in_Africa, Category:Botanists_by_location_of_research and Category:Botanists_active_in_South_Asia (although I cannot see why active is not entirely redundant). If you want to follow the scheme of researchers in "subject area" - perhaps like Category:Researchers_in_Rapa_Nui_archaeology then maybe you could alternately consider the Americanized style of "researchers in Indian agriculture". Shyamal (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also check out Category:Baptist missionaries in India Shyamal (talk) 16:06, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for digging these up. They're helpful at seeing what you're intent is for the category. I think something like "Agricultural researchers active in India" captures your intent within the category structure. But, I'm not really sure that the location of research is defining for agricultural researchers. My understanding is that for botanists, the researcher is active in a specific location, similar to how archeologists are active in certain dig sites/cultures. Are Agricultural researchers typically focused around a specific region, as opposed to a specific crop or method? Mason (talk) 19:17, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am surprised that you are asking for this information after all this. Any person who deals with the history of agriculture would know - here are some old sources 1234 - Any reader would expect all the people mentioned in those volumes to be discoverable under a single category. Shyamal (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, too vague in comparison to other existing categories in this field. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • More specific categories than this do not exist, so there is no redundancy here. That is different for occupations. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wonderful to learn this. I give up. By this logic you should be deleting - Category:Medical_researchers as well. Shyamal (talk) 14:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned, this location matters for places with a colonial history - people were posted from other locations. I see geologists having a similar situation for India - there were people from Ireland, Moravia, US etc working in India. I still see botanists "active in" as being redundant and inaccurate. If it was collectors I understand it but you can be a botanist or entomologist who is a specialist Indian taxa and be entirely resident in the Natural History Museum in London. I think the overall categorization fails in an understanding of location-based science particularly in the colonial context. I do not see a need to be fixated on how similar the grammar needs to be across categories. There should actually be similar categories to deal with agricultural researchers i n the Carribean, the Dutch East Indies etc. There can be differences - we see that parallels already exists that are precise and concise. Shyamal (talk) 12:52, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fictional Arabs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 19:32, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge , this category confuses Arab ethnicity with the Arab world aka Middle East. People from the Middle East aren't all Arabs. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This category is large enough on its own. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, keep in mind that Category:Arab people has subcategories for people from all the different Arabic-speaking countries in it, so unless this is changed I think that justifies the inclusion of all their respective fictional counterparts under Category:Fictional Arabs. AHI-3000 (talk) 00:37, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is a complete distortion of the scope of the category. It is defining for a fictional character to be described as an Arab, as for many other ethnicities. This is completely irrelevant with membership of countries in the Arab League, countries which all have non-Arabic population. Category:Fictional ancient Egyptians are not Arabs, for instance! Your robot-like work of thoughtlessly copying the structure of non-fiction people categories into the realm of fictional characters creates a mess. Firstly what defines a fictional character is different, especially in the realm of ethnicity, as characters are often correctly defined by a few stereotypes, while real people never are. Secondly, even nonfiction categories are sometimes wrong. Place Clichy (talk) 03:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly is your point here? People from Arabic-speaking countries are generally considered to be Arabs unless part of a non-Arab minority group. Modern Egyptians are generally considered to be Arabs, and most people don't dispute this notion. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unknowledgeable people don't dispute it. Wikipedia exists to make people more knowledgeable, not less. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What do you mean? People from Arabic-speaking countries often self-identify as Arabs. AHI-3000 (talk) 11:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The Kurds in Iraq and Syria, the Copts in Egypt, the Kabyles in Algeria, the Berbers in Morocco and Tunisia are just a few significant minorities which strongly identify apart from the Arab majority, numbering in dozens of millions. The significant Armenian community in Lebanon can't be called Arabs by any stretch. A solution here would be to use a fictional Arabs category only for articles for characters which are explicitly individually defined as Arab (not Iraqi or Lebanese or Egyptian) and not geographic sub-categories. But as the term Arab is used so vaguely with conflicting meanings, merging to Middle Eastern may be a better outcome. Place Clichy (talk) 04:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Changed to Keep, provided this category is rescoped for fictional characters of explicit Arab ethnicity, and not loosely related to Arab countries in the geographical sense. Place Clichy (talk) 13:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Changed back, as an editor is again confusing ethnicity and geography, making the scope of this category unclear. If based on geography, it should be called Middle Eastern. If based on ethnicity, it should be called Arab. It can't be both. Place Clichy (talk) 03:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Merge per nom Mason (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Most characters who are Arabs are from the Middle East or can be sorted into Category:Fictional Arab-American people. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep Apparently, the Middle Eastern country subcats are gone, leaving only two categories that are indeed for Arab people. I have not inspected the articles for correctness. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Category:Fictional Arabs has been around uncontested for a long time. Category:Fictional Middle Eastern people was recently added, and I'd like to see a reason *that* one is necessary to exist when it's largely redundant. I'm not saying it necessarily shouldn't, but they don't overlap entirely. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:05, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep
    ethnic group, "Middle Eastern people" is just a vaguely-defined geographic term. Dimadick (talk) 20:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Lists of people by place in the United Kingdom

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Lists of British people by location. bibliomaniac15 06:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate categories. I have a slight preference for the target name because it is more consistent with parent Lists of British people and children Lists of English people by location and Lists of Scottish people by location, and because there is a preference for names where the splitter is at the end per WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 1 § X by Y in Z. Place Clichy (talk) 13:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(answered after relisting) While I could live with a reverse merge, I don't think that the opposing argument makes much sense. These categories for people... in the United Kingdom are casually placed in parent categories named for British people: Category:Lists of people by place in the United Kingdom is currently in parents Category:British people by locality and Category:Lists of British people, and Category:Lists of British people by location has Category:Lists of people by city in the United Kingdom as a child. There are no children categories for these mysterious non-British UK people, except if you consider the English and Scottish categories as that, which is quite a stretch. This hypothetical difference between British and non-British people from the UK is not not present at the level of parent categories either. It does not exist for any other country, e.g. we don't have parallel trees for Category:People in Qatar next to Category:Qatari people, despite the well-known fact that ca. 90% of residents of Qatar are not Qatari nationals. I don't think it would be workable to try and have such a distinction in categories (it should be made clear in every article when possible though, of course). Please merge anyway whatever the consensus target turns out to be, as a better outcome to the status quo. I still slightly prefer the initial target, because of the format of the parent categories. Place Clichy (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Recipients of the Order of Zayed

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 01:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Previously deleted by
Celia Homeford (talk) 10:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose - As I stated in the speedy deletion nomination, the category was previously not consistent with other categories relating to national honors, and was deleted based on it's previous flaws. I am maintaining this category and in it's current state is not there is no rational for deletion. Vyvagaba (talk) 10:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Once Again George W. Bush, Vladimir Putin, and Mohammed VI of Morocco either traveled to foreign countries or received emissaries from other foreign countries as a routine part of their jobs. Receiving diplomatic souvenirs from dozens of countries is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There are many heads of state or government that travelled to the UAE recently including the presidents of South Korea and Brazil, and PMs of Singapore and Japan, all of whom did not recieve the order. There are also two non-foreigners who recieved the order, albeit the rulers of two UAE emirates. Vyvagaba (talk) 06:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • That does not make any difference for the articles which are in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Indo-Europeanists

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Indo-Europeanists

Category:Fictional self-sacrifices

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Fictional self-sacrifices

Category:Suicides in Milan

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep (but bordering on no consensus)
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 19:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per trivial cat, we don't categorize deaths by place "Also avoid categorizing people by information associated with a person's death, such as the age at which the person died, the place of the person's death, or by whether the person still had unreleased or unpublished work at the time of their death." Also per WP:OCLOCATION, "The place of death is not normally categorized" Mason The primary category is cause of death (that is then diffused by country). Mason (talk) 01:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom, the place of a hospital or the place of a car accident etc. is often unrelated to someone's life, unless they have been living in that place. But in the latter case they are already in a "People from populated place" category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as the comparative information the categories generate is really interesting. If the aim is to create a uniform dumbing-down of the present structure, and if there may be a consensus for that, could we please have a comprehensive approach all at once, instead of a nibbling at the edges? For instance, everything in the tree Category:Suicides by city should surely be here. And is Category:Suicide bombings by city outside your line on this, Mason? Moonraker (talk) 13:17, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment: I don't see how you can get much intoformation from the categories as there's huge selection effects. The aim isn't to dumb down the present structure, but to restore it. I appreciate your suggestion of bundling but, I think that this issue boils down to the specific part of a city folks died in, isn't defining. I don't see Suicide bombings by city being on the chopping block as that describes "death" as opposed to individual deaths. Mason (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I do not see a reason to merge city-level categories to country-level categories. The latter are too big, and need to be subcategorized. Dimadick (talk) 20:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: Same per Dimadick. Hiddenstranger (talk) 03:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- The items I checked had at least 5 entries, which is more than the usual minimum. Many are for London Boroughs: if these are merged at all it should be to a Greater London category. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Suicides in New York City

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Suicides in New York City

Category:Deaths by firearm in New York City

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Deaths by firearm in New York City

Category:Publishers of Doctor Who books

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 19:38, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining, companies in question publish other things besides Doctor Who --woodensuperman 14:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:40, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per
    WP:OCASSOC. If these were Dr. Who specific imprints, it would be defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 21:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fictional female businesspeople

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus. bibliomaniac15 06:57, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This new page name would be shorter and also consistent with its real-life counterpart Category:Businesswomen. AHI-3000 (talk) 03:12, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Deaths in Caracas

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Deaths within a city is not defining Mason (talk) 00:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete non defining (t · c) buidhe 07:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Serer jurists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:08, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:NARROWCAT. All three distinct members (Doudou Diène, Alhaji Bai Modi Joof, and Laïty Kama) are already in other subcategories by nationality and occupation. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Support per nom. Mason (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Probably more occupations can follow. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Per
    WP:BLPCAT, the case for ethnicity categories must be made clear in the article and its reliable sources. The last name is not sufficient. The first article makes no mention of Serer background in article text, while the other two mention it but it is not supported by sources. Merge as second-best option. Place Clichy (talk) 23:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Place Clichy makes a case for first purging before merging. I am totally fine with that. If the result is that there is nothing left to merge, so be it. Marcocapelle (talk) 01:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fictional centaurs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 01:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT, as there are almost no articles in the category that are not redirects. They would be dual merged into Category:Centaurs with the exception of Centaurs in popular culture, which would only be merged into Category:Centaurs. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Oppose. Just as with harpies, above, specificity is good in this area. People looking for fictional centaurs should be able to distinguish them easily from other fictional creatures—it makes no sense to have a single category for centaurs, harpies, werewolves, Snagglepuss, etc., where you have to click on each article to find out what kind of creature it represents. This is a decently-sized category, and I don't think that it matters whether the entries redirect to the books or other media in which they appear—they still lead readers to the exact subject they're looking for. It'd be a lot harder to locate that if merged with other categories that also contain redirects.
Imagine being redirected to The Last Unicorn because it contains a harpy, when you're looking for centaurs, and having to scan or search the contents of the page just to figure out whether a centaur is mentioned—and possibly wondering whether there might be a centaur in the novel that isn't mentioned in the plot summary! I see no benefit to lumping all of these creatures together, and some distinct disadvantages. P Aculeius (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. What centaurs aren't fictional? Mason (talk) 19:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We count centaurs from Greek mythology separately from this category, which is for modern works of fiction. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional harpies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 01:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Created by blocked sock.
WP:SMALLCAT that is unnecessarily specific. Entries can be dual merged to Category:Cultural depictions of Harpies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Specificity isn't helpful as they're all also in Harpies already... Mason (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. per Aculeius' explanation. Dimadick (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fiction about otherworld

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: There seems to be an overlap here, with one generally encompassing the other. I am not really convinced this category was required. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:56, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Fiction by setting. There is an important distinction between afterlife and parallel universes. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@LaundryPizza03: Well, Category:Fiction about the afterlife also exists as well... ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Non-Austrian military personnel in Austrian armies

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 12#Category:Non-Austrian military personnel in Austrian armies

Category:Massacres committed by anarchists

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Massacres committed by anarchists

Works set in outer space

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Works set in outer space

Category:Black composers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. There was no substantiative rationale for keeping.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: delete per
WP:ETHNICRACECAT, we do not categorize people by skin color. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Delete per the precedents regarding Category:Black people. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:33, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question. Would of "Composers of African descent" work as a rename to change the scope slightly? I'm thinking of this page (List of composers of African descent ). Mason (talk) 19:10, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some may be Africans themselves rather than of descent, some may be from Oceania. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is a big difference between "delete" and "rename". I am not fighting for any particular revised name, but I think the category is worth keeping. Pete unseth (talk) 22:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Rename and purge. I agree with Pete on this. We may need to purge the handful of folks from Melanesia.Mason (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and
    WP:EGRS/I. However, I don't think there's a single ethnicity, or music style for that matter, which groups together African Americans, Papuans and Indo-Mauritians, to take a few notable ethnic groups associated with dark complexion. Place Clichy (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works set on the moon

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Works set on the moon

Category:Cyber Security by country

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Cyber Security by country

Category:Fictional brands

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:OVERLAPCAT. Target already contains all articles except Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and Products produced from The Simpsons. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Fictional executions by method

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete/merge (not to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:34, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:TRIVIALCAT: Method of execution is arbitrary in fiction and may include methods that do not exist in real life, such as by black hole. Category:Fictional executed characters is fairly small, too. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose all proposals. And why not nominate Category:Fictional executed people by crime as well? AHI-3000 (talk) 21:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't considered that, since I wasn't as sure. Did you mean Category:Fictional executed people by crime? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"may include methods that do not exist in real life": categories about fictional events are not prohibited. Apokrif (talk) 21:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that; what I should have said is that the method of execution is usually plot-irrelevant. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all but the merge to Category:Hanging in fiction, which is meant for fictional works, not characters. I support this per nom as the low-hanging fruit solution, although I have been mulling over whether Category:Fictional dead characters or any of its subcategories can even be defining. After all, a defining trait is how the character is known while they are active in the plot. When a character is dead, it turns into an element of the story itself. Besides undead and ghosts, a dead character can't interact with others. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "Category:Hanging in fiction, which is meant for fictional works, not characters": the category name does not say so. Apokrif (talk) 12:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Currently the name goes against
    WP:NONDEF. If it was renamed to the correct name of Category:Fiction about hangings, then it would definitely encompass only works. Though arguably it would be better off at Category:Fiction about capital punishment as it's currently a fairly specific category, perhaps too specific. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear I still oppose any deletion or merging of any nominated categories. I do not support this weird obsession with destroying categories just because they're too small. AHI-3000 (talk) 05:22, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just oppose
    WP:COPSEP to fictional characters. I am not opposing merging as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Ungulates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename the "prehistoric" categories; no consensus on the rest.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 19:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Main categories were renamed back in Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_19#Category:Even-toed_ungulates and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 19#Category:Odd-toed ungulates, respectively. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support rename of the "prehistoric" categories - which, to a complete and utter lack of shock on my part, are the only ones not created recently or by a blocked sock, but delete the rest. They seem like textbook
    WP:COMMONNAME guidelines being violated, but even if it goes back to ungulates it still makes little to no sense. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Frozen conflict zones

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. There is a lot of discussion, but I will note that the creator has not convinced anyone to support keeping the category. Consensus is not a vote, but our essay about
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: What is a "
frozen conflict zone"? Is this an invented label, or something that's subjective and redundant with other categories such as Category:States with limited recognition? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
— Czello (music) 23:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I provided a reply, sorry for the delay. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:43, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete besides the other delete reasons, I found verifiability issues in both entries that I checked. For example, Czello added the category to Nagorno-Karabakh but there is no content in the article (sourced or otherwise) that supports the description. Ditto with South Korea.
    WP:DEFINING is also unclear. (t · c) buidhe 04:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    These additions were from frozen conflict, but if there are issues with sourcing then surely the correct solution is simply remove the category. — Czello (music) 15:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Since categories don't have citations, they need to be verified and sourced in the article. Please esure to follow
    WP:CATV in the future when adding categories to any article. Since categorization is supposed to be defining, if it's not in the article at all that's a sign the category should not exist. (t · c) buidhe 17:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    Many of them are sourced in the articles (for example, Abkhazia). Any that aren't can easily be removed. That's not a valid reason for deletion. — Czello (music) 20:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The main article
    Alsace-Lorraine, the Cold War, the Pale of Calais or Gibraltar. They are not much different from the selection here, especially the presence of South Korea in the list, either by the frozen or conflict character. However, they would not belong in the category, because its scope is peculiar and subjective. Place Clichy (talk) 04:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:4-polytope stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Stub category with under 50 stubs, upmerge to Category:Geometry stubs. Andumé (talk) 23:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Television episodes directed by cast member

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 23:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Badly-named category for a
non-defining characteristic. Television episodes are not defined by the matter of whether they were directed by a cast member of the series or not -- and, for added bonus, the majority of the content here is redirects to episode lists, not standalone articles about episodes, so they mostly fail to contextualize any possible claims of unusual significance. Essentially this is just trivia, not a thing that unifies these episodes into a special class of thing that gets discussed or analyzed as a group on this basis.
And even if it were to be kept for some reason, this wouldn't be its correct name, so it would have to be renamed anyway. Bearcat (talk) 20:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Keep.
Since the above nomination is based on poorly presented opinions and incorrect statements, I can only see a
WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument here. Gonnym (talk) 22:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Firstly, I don't give a flying honk what you do or don't "disagree" with about the category's name, because Wikipedia's standard naming conventions, and basic grammar, both disagree with you. A properly named category would, firstly, require the plural "cast members", not the singular "cast member", and it would require "cast members of something", not just "cast members the end". I am quite simply correct about this, and I am not debating you on that point: cast members, in the plural, of something, very extremely end of discussion on that.
Secondly, it isn't a question of whether you can find sources discussing the actors as a group — this isn't a category for the actor/directors, it's a category for the episodes, and you haven't shown sources discussing the episodes as a group. Bearcat (talk) 00:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Derwin, Nina (June 7, 2023). "TV Actors Who Directed Episodes of Their Shows". shondaland.com. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  2. ^ Marder, Hannah (July 19, 2021). "29 TV Stars Who Said "Screw It, Let Me Have A Go At Directing" On Their Hit Shows". BuzzFeed. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  3. ^ Nobleza, Jessica (February 16, 2023). "10 TV Actors Who Directed Episodes of Their Hit Shows". Collider. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  4. ^ Spears, Jordyn (June 23, 2022). "8 TV Actors Who Directed Episodes of Their Own Shows". MovieWeb. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  5. ^ "27 TV Actors Who Directed Episodes of Their Hit Shows". FandomWire. May 5, 2023. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  6. ^ Eames, Tom (March 27, 2017). "9 TV stars who directed brilliant episodes of their own shows". Digital Spy. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  7. Usmagazine.com
    . Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  8. ^ Pantoja, Kevin (August 7, 2021). "10 Actors You Didn't Know Directed Episodes Of TV". Screen Rant. Retrieved November 8, 2023.
  9. ^ Fleming Jr, Mike (February 14, 2021). "'Your Honor' Finale: Peter Moffat Explains The Shakespearean Downfall Of Bryan Cranston's Judge Desiato". Deadline Hollywood. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  10. ^ Schwartz, Terri (January 3, 2018). "Clark Gregg Directs His Own "Mini-Marvel Movie" in New Agents of SHIELD Episode". IGN. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  11. ^ Harp, Justin (July 22, 2018). "Marvel's Agents of SHIELD is bringing back Clark Gregg in season 6". Digital Spy. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  12. ^ Ortiz, Andi (April 26, 2023). "'The Flash': Danielle Panabaker Admits Directing Her Last Episode Was 'One of the Few Times I Got Emotional' in Final Season". TheWrap. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  13. ^ Pfeifer, Kelsey (July 21, 2020). "Elizabeth Henstridge On Why Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Time Loop Episode Was 'The Perfect One' for Her Directing Debut". TV Guide. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  14. ^ Rico, Klaritza (Jun 17, 2020). "Variety Streaming Room: Star Cynthia Erivo, Director Jason Bateman and Producer Richard Price on Adapting 'The Outsider' For HBO". Variety. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  15. ^ Martin, Denise (January 23, 2014). "Adam Scott on Greatest Event Guilt, Wearing Short-Shorts, and Directing Parks and Recreation". Vulture. Retrieved November 12, 2023.
  16. ^ Iacobucci, Jordan (August 14, 2022). "The Office: 10 Best Episodes Directed By A Cast Member". Screen Rant. Retrieved November 12, 2023.
  17. ^ Meroney, John (April 14, 2012). "'Roger Isn't Who I Am': An Interview With John Slattery of 'Mad Men'". The Atlantic. Retrieved November 13, 2023.
  18. ^ "Jon Hamm to direct Mad Men episode". The Sydney Morning Herald. May 27, 2011. Retrieved 2023-11-13.
  19. ^ Bryant, Jacob (April 25, 2017). "'The Flash' Star Tom Cavanagh Talks Directing This Week's Episode". Variety. Retrieved November 12, 2023.
  20. ^ Derschowitz, Jessica (September 20, 2016). "Zooey Deschanel on directing the New Girl season 6 premiere". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved November 12, 2023.
  21. ^ Michael, Jalen (June 9, 2022). "10 Emmy-Contending Actors Who Directed on Their Own Series". Backstage. Retrieved November 16, 2023.
  22. ^ Coates, Tyler (June 12, 2023). "When Stars Direct Their Own Shows: Bill Hader, Donald Glover and More Actors Who Wear Multiple Hats". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved November 16, 2023.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 00:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Bearcat. Mason (talk) 04:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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