Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7

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October 7

Category:Albanians from the Ottoman Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename/merge as nominated.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Standard is FOOIAN people, not FOOIANS, in addition, the two child categories are overlapping Mason (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename/merge as nom. Other redundant creations by JPL. Place Clichy (talk) 22:02, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but it is three times rename, right? (No merging.) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Marcocapelle: The target for the 3 categories is the same, and I would say that merging them is a good idea. I would assume that the creation of 3 so closely-named categories is accidental in the first place. Do you wish to keep 3 separate categories? What would be their difference in scope? Place Clichy (talk) 08:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • ≤ Of course, how can I have overseen that yesterday. I do not have a clue how the three categories are intended to be different. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Assyrian/Syriac Palestinians

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:Assyrian/Syriac Palestinians

Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priests

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: The only content of this long string of empty categories is Category:Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priests, which contains two articles. This hurts more than it helps in terms of navigation. My proposal is to merge to the nearest non-empty parent in every direction. Place Clichy (talk) 20:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Seems reasonable. Mason (talk) 21:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Companies of insular areas of the United States by city

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:Companies of insular areas of the United States by city

Category:Universities and colleges in insular areas of the United States by city

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep.
talk 12:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary layer. –Aidan721 (talk) 20:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The existing "Universities and colleges in insular areas of the United States by city" best (i.e., most uniquely) represents the contents of the category in question. The territories are a separate
    HERE. Mercy11 (talk) 22:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Right of foreigners to vote

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Rename category to match the parent article, Non-citizen suffrage. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 20:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico by city

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:NARROWCAT. Many unnecessary layers. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Puerto Rico is, by definition, not IN the United States, therefore the merging of Puerto Rico festivals with United States festivals would incorrectly depict Puerto Rico as being IN the United States. If Puerto Rico is not IN the United States (which it is not) then a festival in Puerto Rico could not possibly be a festival IN the United States either. Only festivals in the 50 states and DC can be categorized as festivals in the United States. Mercy11 (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Festivals in insular areas of the United States by city

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:NARROWCAT. Unnecessary layers. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Tanzanian physicians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
talk 12:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge, keeping a redirect. Clear duplicate. The older category is better populated, and as Tanzania is a former British colony I guess that British English works better. Place Clichy (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge without a redirect, per nom. Both names begin with the same string, so it is unlikely a redirect is needed. HouseBlastertalk 00:06, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Participants in John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: rename per
WP:C2D, the article is at John Brown's raiders. This was opposed for speedy. If this nomination leads to an RM in order to move the article, by all means follow the outcome of the RM. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
copy of speedy discussion
@Namiba and Smasongarrison: pinging participants in speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't think the proposed category title is informative without the Harper's Ferry context. Mason (talk) 19:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mason, Mason, per below, a name change can be proposed once the article and category match.--User:Namiba 13:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support to match article. I'd support moving the article, but that's a discussion for a different place. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 04:49, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Parthians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category while Category:Parthia and Category:Parthian Empire already exist. The only article is in all three categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
copy of speedy discussion
@Smasongarrison: pinging initiator of speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:44, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. per nom Mason (talk) 19:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Wikipedians experiencing stress

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Fails
WP:USERCAT for lacking any discernible collaborative function, compare Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/User/Archive/July 2007#Category:Wikipedians by wikistress level. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Latin-language writers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: moving to full discussion after waiting for on Texts in Fooian. Now all are in the format of "writers in Latin". Mason (talk) 15:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @Nederlandse Leeuw and @Srnec Mason (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
copy of speedy rename discussion
Moving opposed speedy Latin-language writers from Poland
  • Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Latin writers" is fine. "Latin-language writers" and "writers in Latin" are unnecessary. The article on the language is the primary topic and is at Latin. The mistake is in trying to force consistency. "Irish" and "English" are generally ambiguous, but "Aramaic" and "Latin" are not (generally, although they might be in certain contexts). Our article titles should be our guide here. Srnec (talk) 21:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per consistency. And per avoiding additional disambiguation, per Latin (disambiguation). - jc37 09:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:20th-century sportspeople by nationality

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 17#Category:20th-century sportspeople by nationality

Category:British Columbia Liberal Party politicians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename "British Columbia Liberal Party foo" to "BC United foo".
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Party changed its name from "British Columbia Liberal Party" to "BC United" earlier this year, but renaming of the associated categories was not undertaken at that time. This has crossed the line into editors actively trying to move articles into redlinked replacement categories for BC United in advance of any BC United categories actually existing, which obviously isn't acceptable -- the BC United categories have to exist before they can be used, which means that the existing categories have to be renamed first. Bearcat (talk) 14:13, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom Mason (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Brawand family

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Only has two pages in it Mason (talk) 14:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Small families

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete all.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: small cat without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 13:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Innovators, part 2

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete all.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:38, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_22#Category:Innovators, where the rest of the Innovators categories were deleted. – Fayenatic London 08:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Sheikh Mansur Movement

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:Sheikh Mansur Movement

Category:19th-century Albanian military personnel

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:19th-century Albanian military personnel

Category:19th-century Albanian men

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete all of them as nominated.
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:37, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one or two subcategories each. The subcategories are already part of the "by occupation" tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. per nom. Mason (talk) 13:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People by ethnicity and nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Category:Jews is already in the Category:People by ethnicity category. Mason (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People of the Kingdom of Jerusalem

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename to
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: From country/nationality, not of country/nationality Mason (talk) 03:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer subsidiaries

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer subsidiaries

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Scotland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: underpopulated, overlapping category Mason (talk) 02:25, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:20th-century musicians from the Russian Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
talk 12:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 01:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:English diplomats

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:English diplomats

Category:People by ethnicity or nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: split to
(non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:40, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: It seems that @AHI-3000 emptied the ethnicity and nationality categories Mason (talk) 21:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz FYI, I think that this family of categories was emptied out of turn. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:People_by_ethnicity_and_nationality&diff=cur] Mason (talk) 21:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay I'm just confused, why did you empty both categories? AHI-3000 (talk) 22:17, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I *tried to* restore the categories to their previous state. If you wanted to get rid of a category, you need to nominate it for deletion, not just remove all the items in it. Mason (talk) 23:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and alt split to Category:People by ethnicity and Category:People by nationality, the target splits ethnic groups by nationality (by ethnicity and nationality) while the nominated category just mixes up the two concepts (by ethnicity or nationality). Note, for implementing the split properly the subcategories should be split as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Support! and love this alternative Mason (talk) 13:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and alt split per Marcocapelle. NLeeuw (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Smasongarrison and Nederlandse Leeuw: wait, there is just one subcategory in here, so this category can simply be deleted as a redundant category layer. There is certainly reason to split the subcategory, but let's do that in a fresh nomination because there is a whole tree under it. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok. NLeeuw (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose nom, and Support Marcocapelle's proposal to selectively split between ethnicity and nationality. - jc37 09:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm just seeing this CFD nomination now. Mason, please do not empty categories before or during a CFD. It doesn't give editors participating in a deletion discussion much to consider. It effectively wastes their time to consider what should happen to empty or nearly empty categories. Next time I see this happening, from any editor, I think I'll start reverting these kinds of edits. Emptying categories that other editors are supposed to consider for deletion or merger is just disruptive as it gives an inaccurate view of how the category has been used. Using the tool that indicates which articles have been recently added or removed from categories, I see no evidence to support your claim that these pages were not originally in this category and you were returning things to the status quo. If this is true, it happened a while ago. Liz Read! Talk! 23:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I don't really know how to respond to this, other than to ask you to assume good faith. Because it it true that "it happened a while ago", in January 22 when the hybrid category was created. [2] I understand that emptying categories out of process is disruptive, which is why I don't do it (and when it happens it's not my intent). Mason (talk) 00:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Ethnic Albanian people

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15#Category:Ethnic Albanian people

Category:Henry Danger

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep.
talk 12:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: A category or template needs at least a dozen links to be useful. I don't see anything useful coming from having this category or its subcategory with so little links. Amaury • 08:31, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. So how do you propose a reader finds related article? Scan through the article to find any relevant links? This is exactly what a category is for. Gonnym (talk) 12:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This category meets all the size requirements for Smallcat. The norm is 5, not 12. Mason (talk) 12:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. It isn't that difficult for a small universe like this. There are links for a reason. Besides which, they are all technically different series. Just because size requirements may technically be met doesn't mean it's warranted. It's the reason
WP:SMALLCAT is a guideline, not a policy. It's not a hard top-down rule that must be absolutely followed every time. Amaury • 09:07, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Such a large wall of text to talk about something completely unrelated. UNDUE is really irrelevant here. Also, if your argument that a relevant guideline should be ignored because it isn't a policy, you should really have at least something better than a personal opionion (your deletion argument does not cite a policy nor a guideline...). Gonnym (talk) 16:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know where you're from, but that is by no means a wall of text. My response was perfectly related to this and relevant. The
WP:GUIDES, which states: Editors should attempt to follow guidelines, though they are best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply. Emphasis mine. However, citing a policy or even a guideline is not required to nominate a category or template for deletion. I've gotten support for deletion of categories and templates in the past from other users without citing a specific guideline or policy, and the categories or templates were subsequently deleted. I'm not saying you shouldn't cite something, but it's not required. Amaury • 19:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
It really isn't. Re-read
WP:UNDUE not only does it not talk about categories, but the entire page talks about a neutral point of view (hence Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). So yeah, completely irrelevant argument and nomination that not only cites nothing relevant, but ignores actual relevant guidelines. Gonnym (talk) 08:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Needs a third opinion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to comment on the re-list. You had 3 opinions (nom, Mason, myself). A better wording would have been "more opinions". Gonnym (talk) 08:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, it is a borderline case, so give the category the benefit of the doubt. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Teen films

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 17#Category:Teen films

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