Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/National Hero of Indonesia/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 10:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

National Hero of Indonesia

Featured list candidates/National Hero of Indonesia/archive1

Nominator(s): — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it is a good look at a very important subject for the Indonesia WikiProject. Indonesia's national heroes are an interesting bunch, although for the purposes of brevity the most "hooky" aspects of their lives aren't in this article. Did you know that Indonesian heroes...

There's another 151 more, just waiting for your review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from --

Tomcat (7) 09:35, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

Comments nice to see such lists! Here are my nitpicks:

", defined as "actual deeds which can be remembered and exemplified for all time by other citizens",[a]" - I would change the commas with ndashes or mdashes, because it is in conflict with the list. That phrase may appeal to readers as if it would not address the first phrase.

Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:19, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would place "It is the highest level of recognition in the country.[2]" to the first sentence, "National Hero of Indonesia (Indonesian: Gelar Pahlawan Nasional Indonesia) is the highest level of recognition in the country.[2]"...

Tried rewording, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:19, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"The Ministry of Social Affairs gives seven criteria which an individual must fulfill, as follows:[1]" - I would directly address the criteria, eg "The Ministry of Social Affairs gives the following seven criteria (which) an individual must fulfill:[1]"

Not keen on that, as that would make a pretty big run-on sentence. We could move the images up to avoid the white space. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:19, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I think. Regards. --
Tomcat (7) 11:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
]

Support --
Tomcat (7) 16:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
]

Query We seem to have the photos of a significant number of these heroes. Why not incorporate them into the table?—indopug (talk) 12:30, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Short answer? Page load times. Assuming we have free images for half of them, 78 images is going to take a lot of bandwidth for people on slower connections (and will make the page even longer than it is now). For something like
List of prime ministers of Indonesia
, it's doable, but for a list like this I'd rather not impose too much bandwidth consumption.

Also, although more personal, I think having half of them blank is not visually appealing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:33, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another answer is that some photographs and depictions are a somewhat lacking in their original source and proof of first publication, which makes it difficult to ascertain their copyright status. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 20:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I should note, however, that I'm 100% certain that the images used here are PD or under a CC license (I got most of these myself, from PD newspapers or banknotes) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:51, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Bald Zebra (Talk) 09:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I'll give this a full look when I can (my wife's particularly interested in this list as she's Indonesian and knows a few of these people through her family!), but I have three comments to make straight away: -

I think it'd be good to see an image at the top of page to accompany the lead (personally I'd suggest Sukarno, as he's the most well known person on this list).

I'm actually hoping to get down to the Kraton in Yogyakarta when I have some free time. Hamengkubuwono IX's citation is on display there, so "click click".

Not that it really matters, but were you able to get that photo? ★ Bald Zebra ★ ^talk 15:13, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't gone yet. We had a day off today (nyepi), and I wanted to go to the Kraton, but the Mrs she wanted to go to an electronics convention, so... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:20, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first image (Abdul Haris Nasution) would look better if it were moved immediately after the heading, rather than before.

Fair enough, done.

Check the links, as some of them point to redirects - for example,
Juanda Kartawijaya points to Djuanda Kartawidjaja
.

Deliberate, as we are using the
Perfected Spelling here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:26, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
]

I was going to suggest changing these to piped wikilinks, but then I remembered
WP:NOTBROKEN so I guess changing these isn't necessary after all. ★ Bald Zebra ★ ^talk 15:38, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
]

That's certainly doable. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow, hopefully. ★ Bald Zebra ★ ^talk 13:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:26, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just three more comments:-

Two columns in the table are headed "YOB" and "YOD". Although these are explained using Abbreviation tags, I feel changing these to "Born" and "Died" would make things much clearer.

Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Kadir and Cilik Riwut are both noted as having "promoted development," - what kind of development did they promote (social, economic, property etc)?

Added based on the sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ahmad Yani is described as "killed in the 30th September Movement". This should be changed to "killed by the 30th September Movement" to keep it consistent with other entries who suffered the same fate, such as Donald Izacus Panjaitan.

Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

-- Cheers, ★ Bald Zebra ★ ^talk 11:19, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Bloom6132 (talk) 02:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Em dashes (—) should be used in the middle of the 2nd sentence, since it's a break of thought in the middle of a sentence; en dashes (–) are generally utilized for values.
Same dash change in "…occurred in early November – coinciding…"
- For both: see
  MOS:EMDASH. It boils down to a stylistic choice. Both Sudirman and Albertus Soegijapranata (featured articles) use a spaced ndash. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
  ]

"while in 1988 Sukarno" – should be a comma after 1988.

Rearranged. Having a comma there would read awkwardly since "in 1988" is not the entire phrase.

—Bloom6132 (talk) 17:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support – meets all criteria. Great work! —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Hope you enjoyed the read! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - all done, Indonesia Raya! ★ Bald Zebra ★ ^talk 09:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - not finding anything worth opposing over; some redirects, but they all look plausible. The references in the lead paragraph ending in Proclamation of Indonesian Independence are out of order ([4][3][6]). But all in all, looks great. --Pres N 20:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I got that one issue. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – "National Hero of Indonesia is a the highest-level title awarded in Indonesia." Stray "a" in the first sentence. Can't believe four supporters missed this, but maybe they were looking elsewhere. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

D'oh. Four supporters and Microsoft Word's spellcheck. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The typo was not there when I reviewed it.--—
Tomcat (7) 09:39, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply
]

Introduced here (after your review), which explains why Word missed it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:50, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.