Talk:Ozark (TV series)
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Requested move 5 February 2022
 | It has been proposed in this section that Ozark (TV series) be renamed and moved to Ozark. A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, consistently getting several times as many page views as the region. There is not much historical significance claim by the region for the singular form, certainly not enough to overcome the huge page view disparity. Currently, anyone searching for the series with “Ozark” is initially taken to the region article, from where they need to notice and click on the hatnote to the dab page where they must hunt for the link to the series, and click on that, to finally get to the article about the series. There are a few other uses for the singular form, but they are dwarfed even more by the series in page views. As long as there is a hatnote link to the Ozarks dab page, which covers the singular uses as well as the plural ones, at the top of the series article, no one will be worse off than they are now. No one benefits from the current arrangement, except maybe the very rare user who searches for the region with singular Ozark. В²C ☎ 07:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
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- Oppose The geographic area is the primary topic. However, there should be a direct link to the TV show in the hatnote on Ozarks - I am adding one now. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:17, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
- You are not addressing any of the argument I presented for why the series is the primary topic and are simply asserting, without basis, that the area is the primary topic. Okay. 🤷♂️ —В²C ☎ 06:47, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose the TV series is based on the place and the place has more long-term significance however as the TV series is likely primary by usage[[1]] a compromise would be to move Ozark (disambiguation) to the base name instead given there are other uses. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- Are the Ozarks ever referred to or, more importantly, ever sought, as singular “Ozark”? —-В²C ☎ 17:17, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support. The region is not referred to as Ozark -- it is always the Ozarks. Calidum 17:18, 6 February 2022 (UTC)]
- No, it's not always just referred to as "the Ozarks"; it's frequently called the Ozark Mountains or the Ozark Mountain Region [2][3]. That being so, it seems best for both the plural and singular forms to continue to point to the article on the region. ╠╣uw [talk] 16:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- But the regional is not called Ozark. Calidum 16:19, 7 February 2022 (UTC)]
- Sure, the Ozark Mountains or the Ozark Mountain Region. But the region, the topic of Rockies, Ozark is not a common name for the Ozarks. Both singular forms are used most commonly to refer to the film and series respectively, and our title arrangement needs to reflect that for both. —В²C ☎ 16:37, 7 February 2022 (UTC)]
- "Never"? A few seconds on Google was sufficient to find Arkansas's own tourism website for the mountains which trumpets the full-page slogan, "Your Ozark adventure starts here". It seems clear that the singular form does indeed refer to the mountains, and clear too that it is indeed used as such (e.g.) That being the case, we're left with the question of whether a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC than the geographical region, and given the long-term significance criterion ("substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term") I just don't see that the case has been made. ╠╣uw [talk] 18:38, 7 February 2022 (UTC)]
- Yes, just like "Ozark Mountains", "Ozark Mountain Region", and "Ozark people", Ozark is used as a modifier-qualifier in "Ozark adventure", but never just "Ozark" to refer to the region. And the first hit for "Ozark adventure" says this: "Ozark Adventures has been serving outdoor enthusiasts in Springfield, Missouri and the greater Ozarks area since 1979." --В²C ☎ 02:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- ]
- That’s a better argument, but weak nevertheless. First, you’re addressing only historical significance. Second, with such a loose interpretation of “topic associated with that term”, which ignores whether the topic is commonly called just by that term, Rockies. So the region topic has a tenuous primary redirect claim on “Ozark” based on an unusually broad interpretation of “associated with” per historical significance, while the series absolutely dominates for primary topic based on usage. I think it’s clear which way the scales are tipped. —В²C ☎ 15:16, 8 February 2022 (UTC)]
- It seems a stretch to suggest that the term "Ozark" is only tenuously associated with the region: the series is explicitly named after it, and the examples we both provided demonstrate that it's commonly used to refer to it. Still, if beyond just recentism you can make that the case that that's not so, then you're welcome to try.]
It's also good to remember that not every case is identical. The cornerstone of the mighty and long-lived Rocky franchise is certainly easier to support as a primary than a single TV series that's only existed for a few years. However, if Ozark can indeed "go the distance" (as Rocky said) and achieve similar stature and longevity, then it may indeed tip the scales and become a contender. :) ╠╣uw [talk] 16:36, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- It seems a stretch to suggest that the term "Ozark" is only tenuously associated with the region: the series is explicitly named after it, and the examples we both provided demonstrate that it's commonly used to refer to it. Still, if beyond just
- That’s a better argument, but weak nevertheless. First, you’re addressing only historical significance. Second, with such a loose interpretation of “topic associated with that term”, which ignores whether the topic is commonly called just by that term,
- ]
- Yes, just like "Ozark Mountains", "Ozark Mountain Region", and "Ozark people", Ozark is used as a modifier-qualifier in "Ozark adventure", but never just "Ozark" to refer to the region. And the first hit for "Ozark adventure" says this: "Ozark Adventures has been serving outdoor enthusiasts in Springfield, Missouri and the greater Ozarks area since 1979." --В²C ☎ 02:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- "Never"? A few seconds on Google was sufficient to find Arkansas's own tourism website for the mountains which trumpets the full-page slogan, "Your Ozark adventure starts here". It seems clear that the singular form does indeed refer to the mountains, and clear too that it is indeed used as such (e.g.) That being the case, we're left with the question of whether a
- But the regional is not called Ozark.
- No, it's not always just referred to as "the Ozarks"; it's frequently called the Ozark Mountains or the Ozark Mountain Region [2][3]. That being so, it seems best for both the plural and singular forms to continue to point to the article on the region. ╠╣uw [talk] 16:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for the reasons explored above. ╠╣uw [talk] 16:42, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Disambiguate. When good editors suggest multiple primary topics, there usually isn't one. Pointing Ozark at either the series or the mountains will surprise significant numbers of readers. Make Ozark a dab. Certes (talk) 18:06, 8 February 2022 (UTC)]
- Oppose, recognising that the helpful addition of the TV series to the hatnote on Ozarks by User:力 acknowledges its "Primary topic runner-up" status and makes it much easier for the reader to find the TV series than in the previous situation as described by the proposer. Arguments for "Ozark Mountains" etc are compelling, and regions are encyclopedically more significant than TV series. PamD 08:33, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. The primary redirect should remain. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:22, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Comment from nom. To drive the inevitable stake even further into the heart of this proposal, I’ve discovered that the original title for the article at Ozark. So the use of the singular form to refer to the region (not the mountains) is more common than I realized. —В²C ☎ 09:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)]
- Second comment while the region is the Ozarks) and is generally always plural as a noun, the adjectival form is "Ozark" without the "S". Note also Ozark Air Lines. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 00:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)]