Talk:1980 (album)/GA1

Not promoted per

WP:GA?

criteria.

 • In the research world, there is a good practice method to know if an article is appropriate for its publication. It is called the Five Ws: The researcher(s) must ask themselves before publishing their paper if the article satisfies the 5 questions—who, what, where, when and why, plus how if required. The article answers 4/6 questions: what (a jazz-funk, disco, dance), when (1980), who (Scott-Heron, Jackson, et al.) and how (#Recording and production). The article, however, does not answer the questions where (it never mentions the recording studio, for example) and why. As I mentioned, this is the sixth album both artist collaborate on, one of those albums was Winter in America, which is a Good article, includes a Background, and was nominated by the same author of 1980, so I don't have to explain the importance of such sections.

 • In fact, such sections are so important that I took some time to see other Good albums articles at

WP:GA/Music. Most of them does include Background sections (some call them "History", "Plot", "Pre-production", etc.). For those that don't have Background sections, like Tago Mago, Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy) or Here Come the Warm Jets, those where nominated and approved a decade ago, and their GA status can be challenged as they include unsourced information and dead links. So no, I don't buy the excuse that there is no information about the album nor Scott-Heron nor Jackson. There is no information on your Google research, but there is information at your local library. I find it unbelievable that this specific 1980 album lacks of book and magazine commentary, when at the time those were the only ways it could have been reported, Also, it's unlikely to be true that only 16 sources discuss the album (12 online, 4 offline—including the album's booklet) when the article makes clear it received a favorable critical and commercial response. How is that all these older albums have backgrounds and more sources than 1980: a live album, a soundtrack, a compilation album, God, a Latin American album

, do you have any idea how hard is to find reliable/acceptable pre-2000 Latin American/Spanish sources?

 •

Santa Clause Lane was rejected 3 times from being a good article. What it lacked? A critical reception section. That nominator used the same excuse Dan tried to use here ("[I cannot include] information that is not known or addressed by reliable sources"). Of course you cannot invent sources, however, like, Santa Clause Lane, there is a particular scent of not wanting to do your job. Why I say this: SCL looked like this

after its 3rd nomination. If you compare both articles, it is clear the current version is more likely to be a Good Article than the 2010 version. The sources that were added to the current Critical response section didn't exist when it failed its GANs? No, in fact the sources are from 2004, What happened? The same that's happening here, an author that believes he's right because he doesn't want to do his job, and instead of fixing the issues, he wastes his time making personal attacks on the person who is not giving him his Green button. Which, by the way Dan, I have received death threats for merely being here. So, if you believe that calling me lazy, presumtive and troublesome has any impact on me try again, as I have received edgier insults from 13-year old video game players. Which further adds why I didn't ask for a second opinion. If the person agrees with me, that person will, as well, be insulted. So, instead of that, the person or people who decide to re-review this article are already warned by this nomination closure.

 • To conclude I fail the nomination. You have the right to

Good article reassessment

. However, whichever way you decide, the reasons I enlisted here have to be considered when being re-reviewed.

Reviewer: Tbhotch (talk · contribs) 16:57, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality (prose is clear and concise, without exceeding quotations, or spelling and grammar errors):

   B.

   lists

   ):

   Fails

   MOS:LINKQUOTE

   . Not a reasonable reason given to hyperlink a monarch when the text is ambiguous and lacks context to justify such assertion.

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources (it also includes an

   appropriate reference section

   ):

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary (including direct quotations):

   C. No original research:

   Two instances of original research, one was fixed reluctantly and the other still in the article. Despite the fact that "Having already written more good antinuke songs than the rest of MUSE put together, they add a third on their best album ever" mentions a 1980 song, Christgau never discussed any particular title. If the article 1980 mentioned that "Shot 'Um Down" is an anti-nuclear and the original source was Christgau alone,

   WP:SYNTH

   applied. Thankfully for the readers, other sources exist.

   D.

   No copyright violations

   :

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   See the big white box on the right

   B.

   Focused

   :

4. Is it
   neutral
   ?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   edit wars, multiple edits not related to the GAN process, etc. (this excludes blatant vandalism):

6. Does it contain images (or other media) to illustrate (or support) the topic?

   A. Images (and other media) are copyright tagged, and non-free images have

   fair use rationales

   :

   B. Images (and other media) are provided where possible and are

   suitable captions

   :

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Background

• It is missing. Considering this is their 6th album together, there is information about it.
  • "Background" sections are not compulsory. And that is presumptive; where does this information exist and what exactly does it discuss?
    talk) 22:32, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 23:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• You are showing me a guide that concedes it is "a list of possible sections," rather than necessary sections. The music and lyrics sections have some background on their previous work, ideas, etc. The album exists because it was recorded and released. If there is any more information relevant as "background" to this album, it does not exist in the literature. Scott-Heron's career has not been a deeply-covered topic; even AllMusic's skimpy bio has major errors like naming 1978 as the year Jackson left their recording partnership.
  talk) 02:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• The awful stub that existed before your first edit here had a source not present anymore. That means there are more than 16 sources out there. I cited the wording "as a reader I am not reading why the album exists". Therefore, the article fails Point 3a. "Broad in its coverage: it addresses the main aspects of the topic".
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 13:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Did you bother to read the source (Umoji Sasa) you are referring to, Mr. Reviewer? It's an album review, offering more of the same for the themes section (lyrics, song analysis). The source, by the way, is a "campus newspaper". So, yes, you are definitely being presumptive, and lazy; if you are gonna make a big stink about this, you should have your ducks in a row.
  talk) 17:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Point (a) means that the "main aspects" of the topic, according to reliable sources, should each be "addressed" in the article; it does not require comprehensive coverage of these major aspects, nor any coverage of minor aspects. (
  talk) 18:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Mistakes to avoid - Requiring the inclusion of information that is not known or addressed by reliable sources. (
  talk) 18:16, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• If there is more to this album's coming to existence than what is already explained (recording, inspiration behind themes, the label releasing it), then it's
  talk) 18:19, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Themes
• ""Shut 'Um Down" features an anti-nuclear message" -> From source: " Having already written more good antinuke songs than the rest of MUSE put together, they add a third on their best album ever."
  • Are you doubting the "antinuke" reference is to "Shut Um Down"? I've added a ranking from The Nation to the last section ("anti-nuclear songs").
    talk) 22:32, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• I am doubting the part where "Shut 'Um Down" is labeled as "anti-nuclear"/"antinuke", when the source does not mention the title of the song. Pitchfork, however, does it.
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 23:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Some intuitiveness is required (there's no other song on the album to touch nuclear power), but whatever; I'll replace the source.
  talk) 02:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• So, you were asking readers to accept original thinking once again.
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 13:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• "It is not original research to contextualize a possibly misleading quotation, provided this is done accurately and neutrally." It was accurate.
  talk) 18:54, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Just drop it, in itself it is original research.
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 22:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• "subjects include ...
  the shah (dead)," -> Is Christgau talking about Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
  ?
  • The reference could be to Pahlavi but also to
    talk) 22:35, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• So, the wikilink is original research.
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 23:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• "Accurately contextualizing quotations" is
  talk) 02:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• From
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 13:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• I agree with where it went. I agree that Christgau is referring to "the shah". I agree that "the shah" refers to Pahlavi. If you have a specific question or demand, as a reviewer, I'm all ears.
  talk) 18:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Unless you want to continue
  talk) 18:54, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Unless you are Christgau himself, you cannot speak for him. And
  © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 22:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• to seem retro - they want to move on -> Replace the
  dash
  • Done.
    talk) 22:32, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]