Talk:Frank Swift

	Frank Swift has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result June 2, 2009 Good article nominee Listed

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• "...was a football goalkeeper who played for Manchester City and England, born in Blackpool, Lancashire." I don't really like how that's worded. Where he was born just feels awkwardly tacked on.
  • Reworded.
• "Swift's first club was Blackpool Gas Works, where he worked as a coke-keeper" What's a coke-keeper?
  • While none of the references go into detail, I'd expect it meant providing fuel for the furnaces. I've wikilinked coke (fuel), but given the lack of detail in the refs I probably can't do much else.
• "Len Langford had made over 100 appearances, but had received criticism for a poor performance in the 1933 FA Cup Final, which City had lost 3–0 to Everton." Things regarding criticism should probably be cited.
  • Irritatingly, I think the passage explicitly mentioning criticism is in the one Manchester City related book used for the article which I don't have on my bookshelf. I'll probably have access to said book at some point in the next two or three weeks. Descriptions of the 1933 final make it obvious that Langford had a terrible game, but those I have to hand do not explicitly mention criticism - a web-based one is [1] - "City keeper Len Langford almost punching into his own goal following a long ball from Cliff Britton", "A series of set-plays continued to cause havoc in the City penalty box with ‘Tosh’ Johnson making life difficult for his former team-mates by standing near Langford for corner-kicks and making runs to block his sight lines when the ball was played", "Jimmy Stein poked home a loose ball after Langford had dropped a Britton cross". I guess for now I'll remove the word "criticism" but leave the bit about having a poor performance.
• I'd like to see the club career split into subsections, if possible, just because there's a lot of paragraphs.
  • I've attempted to put it into two subsections, though I'm not too sure about it - it feels a bit like doing it for the sake of it.
• Doing a copyedit might help too; I found several small nitpicks as I read that I fixed, others might be around.
  • I've had a run-through, albeit subject to the blindness that comes when attempting to copyedit your own prose. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll put the article on hold for a few days so this stuff can be fixed. Wizardman 04:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good now, I'll pass the article. Wizardman 16:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the comments above about Langford and the 1933 final. Although there have been comments about Langford being criticised in various books over the years these do not match with the facts of what happened in 1933.

Langford was considered a very good 'keeper and Swift's chance to replace him did not have any relation to the 33 final.

The best and most recent book focusing on this period is "The Big Book Of City" By Gary James (

Hope this helps. BillyMeredithShorts (talk) 12:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Too much time has passed since I wrote that part for me to be sure where I got it from, and I neglected to cite it. I remember noticing that bit when I read The Big Book of City, but never followed it up. Normally I wouldn't dream of questioning Gary James, as his research is typically impeccable. However, looking up the report of the final in The Observer archives, it has the following passage (describing the opening goal):

"Langford rushed out too soon, the ball passed over him, and all he could do as he threw his hands up with a backward lean was to divert the ball to Stein, who from very short range just placed the ball in an unguarded net. The goalkeeper is the one man who is expected never to misjudge or make a mistake. This is what Langford did. The five minutes before the interval vanished before one could recover from the shock of such a goal; a goal that made one think of other blunders by goalkeepers in the Final ties of 1927 and 1928"

The Manchester Guardian said: "It would be unjust, perhaps, to saddle him with responsibility for Manchester's defeat, but he was at fault when Everton scored their first and second goals."

Of course, this may well be a matter for Langford's article rather than this one. Oldelpaso (talk) 22:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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