Talk:Ior Bock

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Site with photos of Ior Bock

This page (in Finnish) has a recent and some earlier photos of Mr. Bock:

It is a more critical review of his life. 69.181.82.102 00:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Also available in Swedish. __meco 08:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please note that Magnus Londens article is a paraphrase of the Bock-Saga, under the title "The Saga of Holger" ('Holgers Saga'). Mr. Londen is not a professional historian or biograhpher. He is a journalist and writer that have produced a wide variety of artcles, beside two travel-guides and some fiction. In his article about Ior Bock he combines biographic information and pictures with his own views, interpretations and speculations. The resulting paraphrase - "Holgers Saga" - makes an entertaining read, but the storyline is obviously not based on mere facts and mere facts alone, since all his alleged sources remain anonymous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.88.171.160 (talk) 18:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
An article written by a well known journalist is an acceptable secondary source. Primary sources are not demanded...can\t sign, a keyboard problem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.68.221 (talk) 14:53, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
More than what? Most articles about Ior Bock, up to 1984, were basically straigth forward news and recessions from his career as an actor and guide at Sveaborg. Since he published his saga-material, from 1987 onwards the articles became gradually more sceptic. Since he was busted for hemp-smoking in 1990 they have all been critical. At times very critical, even condemning.
Though, there are no other journalists or writers who have rised this issue that Magnus Londen headligths in his article, concerning the death of his adoptiive brother Erik. If the young Mr. Bock in any way would be responsible for his brothers death it would have been neglective to not adress and answer these questions at the time. All the more so since Ior were already a well-known public person due to his career at the Swedish Theatre in Helsinki. Even the police repports are very short and summaric. So where is the contemporary evidence of what really happend?
I understand that Mr. Londen's 'sensational revelation' could do with the dramatic tune of a gun-shot, but I still wonder why this tragedy within the Svedlin family is relevant to the biography of Ior Bock. Since the article of Mr. Londen the incident have been looked into by various parties and there is still no clear answers to this issue. Thus i would recommend the fans of Londens bias to not use Wikipedias articles as a discussion page and observe that caution, as well as Wikis rules of ethics, is still to be kept.
If you need to discuss the following, please supply your comments with controllable sources that verifies Londens claims:
"After his parents' death, Ior Bock stated that Erik Svedlin actually committed suicide due to a tragic family drama, a theory that is highly disputed amongst others by Erik's fiancé (they were to get married a week later in 1962), and she is interviewed in the same article by Londen. According to Ior Bock's version, to avoid a social scandal the incident was termed as an "accidental death" and explained to be a result of the two brothers "playing around". Magnus Londen claims that he has seen official police reports from 1962 and 1963, signed by Ior Bock himself. According to these reports the brothers had been listening to music while Ior Bock was dancing and playing with a gun. Bock stated to the police the gun went accidentally off when he threw it to his brother. Everyone involved considered the incident to be a tragic accident.[1]" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.88.171.160 (talk) 20:21, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
Please sign your comments (above).
I checked the Finnish and Swedish versions of www.magnuslonden.net:
Londen has published three travel books (publ 1997-2004, one of them chosen travel book of the year in Finland), plus one historical book about Finnish Travel history and poster art 1865-1965 (publ. 2007), one 100-year history book about the boyscout and girl guides movement in Finland (publ. 2010), he was awarded freelance journalist of the year in Finland some years ago, he has received two awards for his writing 2010 in Finland, he has his own weekly radio talk show on Finnish Broadcasting Company (YLE), he is a columnist both in Helsingin Sanomat (leading Finnish speaking daily) and Hufvudstadsbladet (leading Swedish daily), and has also published many history-related articles apart from that. I would say that makes his writing quotable and reliable on Wikipedia.
We have suggested here on Wiki that the police reports should be published. Why don't somebody ask the journalist if he has the papers and then they might be published somewhere else (not on Wiki) as a reliable source. Wouldn't that settle this dispute? Comments anyone? Of course, if this is inapproriate at this stage we can just let it be.--Fullfacts (talk) 20:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, there is no need to verify any of the Londen's claims or present original sources anywhere. We just refer here what Londen says. Readers can judge by themselves whether they believe him or not. Verification of claims presented in secondary sources simply does not belong to Wikipedia. Please remember the Wikipedia guidelines.--130.234.68.224 (talk) 08:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Readers can not "judge by themselves" unless they are living in Helsinki. Besides, this is meant to be a lexical article, where only facts are due to be presented. To place the responsibility for the truth of the matter on the reader is nothing but a contradicition in terms.
The last editors of this article show a consequent line of bias, resulting in sheer vandalism as even well-known vita about his career are deleted. The problem seems to be information that may contradict the character described in a defaming article. The effort is obviously due only to keep the esteem of Ior Bock as low as possible, along the line of the character-assasination of this disabled, disputed and defenceless mystic - as produced by Magnus Londen at a time when his career were running low.
Sadly the attitude of these contributors are polemic, not academic - jeopardizing Wiki's reputation as a reliable source of information and facts. Maybe user Fullfacts can kindly ask the journalist to prove the validity of his article by quoting the police-repport and referencing the sources of these envious claims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.90.25.231 (talk) 22:33, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that you don't understand how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia only refers secondary sources. I have to repeat: Verification of the claims presented in those sources simply does not belong here and you cannot demand it. Please read the Wikipedia guidelines and stop spamming. And kindly stop writing that paranoidical nonsense about character-assasinations and defamation. I do not feel animosity towards Ior Bock. It just happens to be so that the Magnus Londen article is the only available third-party source of the life of Ior Bock. So we use it, of course. Londen is responsible of his own claims.--130.234.68.220 (talk) 07:56, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Londen has added new sources to his article

Another user wrote me on my talk that there are now sources written in the web version of the Londen article. Should settle this discussion. --Fullfacts (talk) 19:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, these updates are not present in the cached version of the article. Being quite inept in all matters concerning computers, I cannot fix this myself..a keyboard problem, can\t sign *User Kaikenlaisia* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.68.221 (talk) 08:29, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take care of that. __
talk) 12:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply
]


Sibbosberg

The English article makes reference to Sibbosberg (or Sibboborg) in relation to the Template of Lemminkäinen. Sibbosberg is a small, possibly maedivil fortification on Sipoonjoki/Sibboå near Söderkulla (between the Uusiporvoontie and the Porvoonväylä motoroway), whereas the Temple is in Gumbostrand, actually on the Hitåntie/Hitåvägen road. The two places are different and Bock never had any dealings or interest in Sibbosborg.

192.100.120.41 (talk) 06:39, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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IPA

The IPA transcription looks odd. It corresponds neither to the pronunciation of the name by Finnish or Swedish native speakers. And why is it tagged as "Finnish" if Ior Bock was a Finland-Swede, i.e. a native speaker of Swedish. (The description "Swedish-speaking Finn" is funny, actually. Finland-Swede, is the self nomination of this linguistic minority, but there are of course plenty of Finns who speak Swedish as a foreign language as well.) Rießler (talk) 12:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've corrected it. Rießler (talk) 15:39, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Details in documentary* (2018)

According to Abhi, one of two of Ior's helpers (who arrived on 31 Oct. 2008), a person whom Ior had not seen for ten years or so came to visit him the night before Ior was stabbed to death. Abhi seems to suggest that he was the same man who had stabbed Ior [in 1999], rendering Ior a quadriplegic, and suspects that that man might have hypnotised (or influenced?) the other helper, Neelesh, who they noticed was not himself for some months. Before killing Ior, Abhi claims, Neelesh was insulting and threatening Ior. But, why is it not mentioned in the documentary (Who the Hel is Ior Bock?) who stabbed Ior in 1999? Stjohn1970 (talk) 12:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference magnuslonden.net was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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