Talk:Liam Lawlor

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Ireland Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Biography: Politics and Government This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance). project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

	Russia Start‑class Low‑importance
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible. The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

He was murdered following a series of veiled threats between him & others in the Oireactas concerning their respective & mutually connected dodgy dealings. Paid assassination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.96.182 (talk) 22:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Ireland was speculated to be in negotiations with the CIA to hire one of their hitmen to set up the crash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.199.89 (talk) 21:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Irish Times has just contacted me to say that the Irish citizen killed in a car crash near Moscow was ex-TD Liam Lawlor. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 14:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That was fast, I came here to add it too. Can't say I'll weep for the man. --Irishpunktom\^talk 14:31, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nor I. I knew him. He was worse than you could possibly imagine. The trouble is that a lot of the information the Tribunals need will have died with him. And he can't now end up where he belonged, in Mountjoy.

Bertie has just called him "engaging, witty and a larger than life character." Call him for he was, Bertie, a crook.FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 14:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know this sounds bad, but just imagine what he'll say when "Arise and follow" Charlie H. pops his clogs. I don't trust any of them, Lawlor was the unfortunate who got caught, but they're all as seedy... IMHO... call me cynical if you want! --Irishpunktom\^talk 14:52, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest I know a lot of politicians across the political divide and from experience only a tiny minority are corrupt. One of the shocks about becoming involved in politics is that the cynicism there is about politicians among the public is nothing to the cynicism you develop for the public. The sheer number of chancers, liars and crooks out there in real life is mindboggling.

Remember, the electorate re-elected Lawlor time and time again, and Lowry, and others of that ilk, while rejecting others who fought to stop corruption.

Remember Mayo in the last election? The public elected Beverly Cooper-Flynn even after all the revelations. Yet they kicked out Jim Higgins, who is honest as they come and who had outed corrupt guards and politicians!!! I could list hosts of honest TDs and senators from all sides whom the public kicked out, while they elected gunrunners like Martin Ferris, whom everyone knew sat on the IRA Army Council and whose supporters in Kerry were involved in beating up people, and dodgy dealers like Michael Lowry.

If Charlie Haughey stood for election tomorrow he'd walk in even after all the revelations about him. Yet honest TDs like Barry Andrews, Joan Burton, Jim Higgins, Joe Higgins, etc will struggle to get in. And last time people like Jim Higgins, Dick Spring, the late Jim Mitchell, etc got the chop. In electing the Lawlors of the world the electorate gets the TDs they deserve. (That's me being cynical. I could make your hair stand on end with stories of voters and their antics, like the woman in an old people's charity who threatened to spread an untrue smear about a TD unless he bought €500 euro worth of her raffle tickets! And when he won the 1st prize, she confiscated it from him and announced that she would keep it herself "to help me do my job campaigning for old people". When he questioned it, she said she would spread a rumour that he was a wife-beater!!!) Publicly she has the reputation of being a crusading defender of old people, and has nice things written about her in the media. In reality she is a corrupt old bitch who rips off people with threats. And she is all too common!!! FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 15:29, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

hehe, Well I'm guessing you'ld no more than I. I find though, that tribal (that is Civil War) affiliations run deeper outside Dublin and Cork. There are still places (in Clare at any rate)where the name "Fine Gael" is followed by "Blueshirts" and where a Fianna Fail nomination is all that is required to become a TD. Personally I don't trust any of them, my mind harkens back to that Promise of a "partnership for peace" referenda that never was. My Local TD is a Sinner, and I trust him and his IRA ilk more than the two FF's who share the DSW area .. not so sure about Pat Rabitte.. I inteviewed him once and he seemed both honest and determined.. but he clearly he was playing for votes.. anyway.. Lawlor, IMO, was elected because of where he stood, nothing to do with him, his polocies, etc. --Irishpunktom\^talk 15:36, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ukranian dispute?

The article says the Ukranian was 16, anyone got a source? Bandraoi 19:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Added RTE link that states who she is. ant_ie 23:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a disputed tag to these two sentences.I have no source at present to confrim the woman's identity. She checked out of her hotel, dispite being required to attend an inquest regarding the deaths of Lawlor and his driver. ant_ie 19:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Her name is reported as Kushnir rather than Kushniran, but seeing as the editor of the Sindo has already put up his hands and admitted that the report was inaccurate (and it disappeared off the website yesterday evening, which should have told us something about its accuracy), I think she (but not Lawlor) deserves her reputation and I think you should remove the disputed tag.

I still stand by this tag, as no source i.e a written publication or a link that it Lawlor Family confirm this. Wikipedia only stands to improve by not just adding to articles but showing what the source is. All I ask if you add information, prove it.To above the above poster it is consider impolite not to sign your posts. ant_ie 20:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for not having logged in the last time, but the point still stands. Pat Kenny on yesterday morning's radio show interviewed an Irish businessman working in Prague, Enda Ó Coinín(sp?), who confirmed that Ms. Kushnir was a legal secretary/interpreter and not a prostitute. She's entitled to her reputation. Unless any of us have evidence that she [b]is[/b] a prostitute (and I don't believe that we have) then the disputed tag should be removed. PaddyMatthews 09:02, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

They said it in a live radio broadcast (1.45pm on [[RTÉ|RTÉ Radio 1's Liveline with Joe Duffy today), which the radio station has yet to put a link up to. There is no dispute about it anywhere. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

RTE Liveline Click on latest show, only avaible online for seven days. Sadly the show discuss the current Irish postal service today and not Lawlor's death. I will add another link to RTE that confrims she was from the Ukranine. ant_ie 20:58, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Has she checked out of her hotel and disappeared without talking to the police? Bandraoi 21:24, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes According to this morning's Irish Times. ant_ie 21:39, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Two things: RTÉ is notoriously slow about updating their information. (It can be a pain in the butt sometimes. I needed to trace an interview I did on it and it took 8 days for the link to appear!) Secondly, re the disappearance; given that the original false information came from the Moscow police we have to be careful to supply evidence. Their performance so far has been incompetent beyond belief. The lady has already been accused without evidence of being a prostitute with a police record when it appears that she was a 32 year old professional with no history in the sex industry. We need to be careful not to suggest she is a fugitive from the police on top of everything else unless we are 1000% sure this time. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 21:41, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Irish Times is certainly credible: they take their time to get things right. But again, if the Moscow police said that you were a prostitute, would you be enthusiastic about going to them. I could understand if she decided that having been slandered she just wanted to get away from it all. It would be a natural human reaction, even if perhaps unwise.FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 21:45, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. These talk pages are great to discuss the article. ant_ie 22:06, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiciton

I added the {{Contradict}} tag. First paragraph under Death heading says accident occurred "twenty-three kilometers from Moscow". Next paragraph says it happened in Moscow. Finell (Talk) 00:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

According to two sources listed at the end of the article, the first paragraph is correct. The next paragraph state what the Russian police said in the immediate aftermath of the accident. ant_ie 07:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies

the article states that the observer has refused to apologise it. We need to list the papers who did apologise, or to remove that mention. the way it is just leaves things hanging.

Both The Sunday Independent and Sunday Tribune have apologised.See RTE 24 October 2005 and RTE 25 October 2005.ant_ie 17:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]