Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors (The Infinity Saga)

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Archive footage appearances

Hi, I have a question. Recently, on the MCU Marvel Studios TV actors list, it was added the archival audio of Captain Marvel, Nick Fury and Maria Rambeau from Captain Marvel on WandaVision. So, should we add the archive footage appearances on this list? Like Black Widow in Thor: Ragnarok or Tony Stark and Obadiah Stane in Spider-Man: Far From Home, to name a few. AxGRvS (talk) 04:26, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They are already included. —El Millo (talk) 04:27, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I really missed it, sorry, my bad AxGRvS (talk) 04:37, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oreo the Raccoon

I am going back and forth over whether Oreo the Raccoon should be added to the line for the introduction of Rocket. As noted in Rocket (Marvel Cinematic Universe)#Characterization, Oreo was used as a reference for both the appearance and movements of Rocket, and was even brought to the red carpet premiere of the film. Sadly, Oreo died in 2019, and quite frankly, if this doesn't bring a tear to your eye, then you have no soul. BD2412 T 04:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This doesn't really have anything to do with the actors list. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:06, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Arguably, the "model" raccoon is an "actor" in the role. It is not unheard of for an animal to be credited as an actor. For example, in the end credits for the first Guardians of the Galaxy film, "Cosmo the Space Dog" is credited as being played by "Fred". BD2412 T 15:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But they didn't use an actual raccoon, the character is CGI. Thus, this isn't something to indicate here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why, then, do we list Sean Gunn? He was used as a reference for movements, as was, apparently, the real raccoon. BD2412 T 15:05, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gunn did motion capture for the character, which directly translated to what is seen on screen, unlike the real raccoon which was not. Never was a real raccoon put on the set to be filmed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I am satisfied with maintaining the status quo, then. BD2412 T 17:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Time Variant Loki

 – - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Favre1fan93: I'm not sure we should be saying that the version of Loki seen in Endgame is the time variant from the series. The time variant is only created once Loki travels away with the Tesseract at the end of the scene, so the version of the character that we actually see in the film is just the past version of the original Loki. Just like how the other 2012 Avengers we see are not time variants of those characters and we don't list them separately. I think the "time variant" status only applies once we get to the series, and only needs to be mentioned at the series/season articles and then maybe in a note at the list of TV actors? - adamstom97 (talk) 20:55, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Based on how time-travel is established in the MCU, aren't all the "time-heist" locations actually alternate realities, with the characters time variants of the MCU proper? It felt notable to make the distinction for Loki because the one that was a part of that alternate 2012 reality is progressing on, whereas it isn't as important for the other characters in my eyes because at this time no others are continuing on in other media. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Both of you are right in a way. They are going back in time to their same timelines, but it becomes an alternate reality when stuff starts changing as far as I understand it. So yes, all the other characters would be time variants as well but, as Favre points out, that's not important no note here because they won't continue appearing as that alternate version. I guess we should either include it or not include it at all, but if we do, we should consider the one in Endgame as a variant. —El Millo (talk) 21:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
According to Endgame's logic, small changes shouldn't create an alternate timeline and once Steve returned the Infinity Stones those different branches would basically sort themselves out anyway. The thing that makes Loki a time variant is when he takes the Tesseract and travels away since that definitely creates an alternate timeline according to the Ancient One. So I do think he doesn't count as a time variant until the end of that sequence. The whole notion of a "time variant" doesn't really apply to Endgame anyway, so I don't think we should be retroactively saying that Endgame introduced the time variant Loki with a whole row in this list. I think it is more correct, and simpler for readers, for us just to include Loki here as one of many characters that gets revisited, and then when he shows up in the series we treat that version as different. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:14, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I might be getting slightly confused here. We aren't mentioning "Time Variant" at all on this article. Did you mean for this discussion to take place at Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors (The Infinity Saga) Adamstom.97? If so, perhaps we should move the discussion there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:37, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hahaha yes, my mistake. We have too many similarly-titled articles. I am referring to the actor list, not here. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Time variant shouldn't apply to Loki in Endgame, but Gamora its relevant. Nebula and Thanos as well but they both died and original timeline versions is present too so a note isn't really needed. I don't think Gamora(or Loki) needs a new entry as introduced in phase 3/4 though. I think for Phase 1, a note placed Loki(Loki2 3 MSV- "A MSV indicates a time variant of the character appears in a Marvel Studios television series.."), and in Phase 2, a note placed on Gamora(Gamora 3 3V - "A 3V indicates a time variant of the character appears in Phase Three.") could makes sense. While the variants are not the same version we see up til Infinity Wars, they were introduced in Phase One & two(kinda) prior to becoming variants. Variant Gamora comes from slightly before she is introduced in GotG, but Loki variant is same Loki from Thor, and up til end of Avengers. Not relevant now, but eventually Natasha might have similar situation. Regardless, maybe I'm complicating it too much, but I think a note on original character is better than having a new instance as introduced. Vision also has his complications, but similar to Nebula/Thanos that is only temporary with original also there and just for that entry where it occurs. Loki and Gamora are the new normals for them. WikiVirusC(talk) 22:13, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Adamstom.97, Facu-el Millo, and WikiVirusC: Please note I've moved the above text from its previous talk page location to this one, where it is most appropriate. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:49, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the new rows work for the following. If we stick with Loki, the character we were first introduced to in Thor in Phase One, is not the same that we're getting in the Loki series. While he might not have "become" a variant until the end of the Endgame scene, it's still that version that is continuing on to the series. To WikiVirus's point about Gamora and Nebula, Gamora I can see getting a separate row because the 2014 version in Endgame is different from the one we first saw in GotG. Nebula would be the same situation as the Avengers as Facu pointed out because her two versions are contained to just Endgame. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:52, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we need to put it in the Cast indicator though, that would make it too complicated and we would end up having one indicator for only one characters. Footnotes will suffice. A note for Loki and a note for Gamora, in preparation for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. —El Millo (talk) 23:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we should start having multiple rows for one character just because different versions of them appear though. I think a note for Gamora in Endgame would make sense since there is only one version of her in the film and it is a variant, but I still think we don't need to mention this at all for Loki in Endgame because that is just a past version of the character. In the series he becomes a variant, so that is where the note should go. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:02, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree the extra row is unnecessary, but I'm torn on the variant/no-variant in Endgame, because he becomes a variant there, when he disappears with the Tesseract. —El Millo (talk) 04:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think that is probably the better solution. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:45, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just a small note. Endgame-Loki does not become a variant when he escapes with the Tesseract according to the rules of the Ancient One. She's talking about removing a stone from its timeline, which you cannot do simply by travelling with the space stone. So either Endgame-Loki is a variant to begin with (as are all past-characters), or he becomes one in the Loki series due to some unknown circumstance. It's very possible that, in the show, they will actually go with 'the stealing of the Tesseract made Loki a variant', but that doesn't follow according to the rules the Ancient One lays out in Endgame. Unless I'm missing something.UnderIrae (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the show might go that way. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:46, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Her rules were specific to the timeline not the individuals who may be variants from it. Loki disappearing from the timeline might not be as significant to the timeline to put it in jeopardy like her examples with the stones, but he himself is a variant per the Time-Keepers per Marvel Studios. Obviously when the show comes out we will have more, but the Ancient One didn't explain a rule for people branching off, she was talking a much wider scale with entire timelines. WikiVirusC(talk) 23:20, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Collage omissions

In the opening collage of images, I think it's a bit odd to include Chris Pratt but not Zoe Saldana (their films were Guardians of the Galaxy films, not Star-Lord films), and I would give them roughly equal billing across the saga as a whole. I would also include Don Cheadle, given the character's growing presence across the series. If decorum demands a row of three, I would also add Elizabeth Olsen (or, barring that, Tom Hiddleston). Despite their headlining status, I would consider both Evangeline Lily and Brie Larson to be behind both Cheadle and Olsen in importance to the series. BD2412 T 05:07, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think Saldana should be included too, but Pratt definitely did get special billing on Infinity Wars poster/credits and Endgame credits. Looking through archives it seems people though it should just be "leader" of teams to be included. That honestly only includes Guardians for that since Avengers have their own inclusion. Caption for images says he is included from headlining films series. Personally I think adding a new row with Saldana, Bautista and then maybe Hiddleston or Cheadle if we want to fill it across with 3. Criteria of members of original teams with their own movies, would only add Saldana/Bautisa, since we aren't including Voice actors. We have special creteria for Brolin & Jackson, having a general criteria for teams wouldn't be breaking anything imo. I don't know what the actual inclusion guidelines are, but arguments in archive/caption included:
  • Headlined their own film (many)
  • Appeared across multiple(3+) movie franchises (for like Mackie, Olsen and Hiddleston)
  • Leader of a team film (Pratt)
  • Special Endgame montage/credit scene for OG Avengers. (Johansson, Renner, & Ruffalo(since Norton did solo Film))
  • Over arching Villian (Brolin, although Brolin only appeared in 2 films and 2 end credit cameos, and another cameo for non Brolin Thanos)
  • Cameo/supporting role in many films (Jackson)
WikiVirusC(talk) 14:59, April 9, 2021 (UTC)
Did not realise Peter Parker was number 4 (no pun intended for fans of I Am Number 4). Obviously the television series would add to the figures for the shows leads. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:48, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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