Talk:List of districts and neighborhoods in Los Angeles

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A number of names linked to articles are tagged "citation needed"? Why is sourcing needed for a name that links to an article? I propose to remove all such tags in this article - approve/oppose? WCCasey (talk) 16:01, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They are used to indicate that there is no proof either on this page nor on the target pages that these geographic names are actual neighborhoods. We have to be sure that simple subdivisions, tracts, and other real-estate puffery are not allowed on this page. Rather than our removing these listings, it is better that the reader be informed that there has been no source found that any given name is actually a neighborhood. So these notations should not be removed: They provide needed info. Instead, any interested editor can hunt around and find citations, if they do indeed exist, thereby improving the validity of the WP information about L.A. neighorhoods. Yours, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:13, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I found sources that say that most these are all actual neighborhoods, except for Platinum Triangle, Los Angeles, which is actually a group of neighborhoods in different cities and so should be removed from this list. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:35, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that the name of this article includes "districts," but anyway, they are now all cited, except for that Triangle thingy. Again, this list should not include real-estate puff pieces. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:40, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, East Gate Bel Air, Los Angeles is called an "area," so maybe it shouldn't be in here. But that's another story. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:52, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If an article exists describing a district/neighborhood with a particular name, that's sufficient sourcing to be on a list like this one. If a lack of sourcing needs to be tagged, it should be done in the original article, not on this list. Sources found should also be noted in the original article, not on this list. If a neighborhood name is found to be not real, the name's article should be nominated for deletion per

An article Virgil Village did exist in the German language Wikipedia since 2007. After an AfD debate, I have today replaced that article with a redirect, thus closing the debate in my capacity as a sysop. The corresponding English language article Virgil Village, Los Angeles has been prodded and deleted here in 2013. I would be innterested in the current views of active contributors to the English language Wikipedia (and presumably people knowledgable about L.A.) on the notability of Virgil Village. Would you consider revisiting the decsion? A point of contention in our debate has been the recognition of Virgil Village as one of six districts within the East Hollywood Neighborhood Council. --Minderbinder (talk) 11:25, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's a district within a neighborhood, so it could be added to this list and mentioned in an article about East Hollywood, Los Angeles. The articles I examined indicate it should go there. https://www.newspapers.com/search/#query=virgil+village&p_county=Los+Angeles+County%2C+California BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 18:11, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@

I think you've made a good start in countering one of our basic policies, which is WP:Ignore all rules, but you haven't persuaded me. Can you go further and explain in what way "clickable footnotes" are required or at least suggested in WP usage? It is my understanding that all we need, really, is a citation, clickable or not. Second, in what way is it deleterious to the encyclopedia to have "non-standard superscript markup"? Thanks, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, any citation will satisfy the requirement to cite sources, but there's an advantage to clickable and hoverable footnotes in simply that it's easier for readers to see the citation. Not being consistent in how footnote citations are made increases the possibility for confusion. For me personally, when I saw these acronyms in superscript instead of numbers, I was wondering if they were indicating groups of neighborhoods or something. It's not until you actually scroll down to the bottom of the page that the meaning becomes clear. -- Beland (talk) 03:25, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for explaining...I did not understand what the notice you had placed on the article page actually meant. I agree with you. And it doesn’t seem like a difficult change to make Phatblackmama (talk) 04:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned that, if we add such a tag, we are just cluttering up the page with a stricture that nobody will bother to address. Surely there is nothing clickable about refs to a Thomas Guide of several years ago. What about deleting them all and simply note that the refs are to be found in the texts of the target pages? BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 20:12, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can take care of that if there's no objection. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 20:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's not clicking from the article text to an external web site I meant, but just clicking from the article text to see the footnote text. Though I suppose see-link-on-hover does make that second click a lot easier, if the citation is to a web site and not a book. If the concern is not about the change itself, but that the cleanup tag makes the page unpretty, the right solution is just to perform the cleanup the tag is there for. It's just a search-and-replace, and since at least two out of three editors support it, I've just done it. (I was looking at a list of hundreds of articles that need cleanup of one kind or another and didn't have time to clean all of them; otherwise I would have just done this to begin with.) -- Beland (talk) 01:19, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you did a good job. Thanks! The only change I might suggest is to get the citations into numerical order, but that is really minor. Yours, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:55, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation was originally on User talk:Beland. Moving here because it has pointers to sources and so it can be removed from my list of unread messages. -- Beland (talk) 19:59, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I see you made some changes to some Los Angeles neighborhoods and hope you don't mind if I explain a few things to you.

City designated neighborhoods

(1) Per the City of Los Angeles, neighborhoods are named by a specific process and then given official signage. These signs are noted on the wikipedia page

(3) The same goes for Baldwin Hills and Baldwin Vista. As noted, Baldwin Vista is a "western Baldwin Hills neighborhood" ^[4]. But the city gives each of them their own neighborhood sign.

LA Times Mapping Project

(4) This is where is gets messy!

A decade ago, The Los Angeles Times felt there were too many designated neighborhoods in Los Angeles. Indeed, you can drive down Olympic Boulevard and go past a handful of neighborhoods in a quarter mile. So, the Mapping L.A. project of the LA Times decided to redraw neighborhood lines. The LA Times Mapping Project reduced 472 neighborhoods down to 115.

The neighborhoods of Crenshaw and Baldwin Hills were combined into a new entity called Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw. (user Been Aroundawhile, a former reporter for the LA Times, was instrumental in adding these new entities to wikipedia and deleting the city designated neighborhoods - which were promptly added back in). And if you go through the citations on the Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw page, you will see that the only usage of the name "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" is used by the LA Times Mapping project; all other sources refer to the neighborhoods of either "Baldwin Hills" or "Crenshaw".

(5) Regarding Mapping L.A......please look at the geography section of Arlington Heights, Los Angeles. The city has documented its boundaries and placed neighborhood signage on the corners. But the Mapping L.A. project expands Arlington Heights past those boundaries, and combines it with Country Club Park and Angelus Vista. The Mapping L.A. project does that a lot - combining multiple neighborhoods under one name for the sake of simplicity -- that is, reducing 472 neighborhoods down to 115.

(6) Comparing this map ^[5] with the Mapping LA Project, Elizabeth Fuller wrote in the LarchmontBuzz ^[6] that "Many people who live in and represent their neighborhoods in various ways have objected to the Times’ designations for not following city-recognized borders.” She said that Brightwell's map was a much more fine-grained view of “every L.A. neighborhood.”

(7) It appears that in 2018, even the LA Times is not sticking to the "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" name that it created a decade earlier and now simply uses the name "Baldwin Hills" ^[4].

(8) please do not think this is just an issue with "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw". The Mapping Project has designated many neighborhoods that contradict city boundaries.

Conclusion

(9) Jenna Chandler, the editor of

(10) I hope I have laid out everything clearly. I therefore strongly object to your wording on the Baldwin Hills page that "it is part of Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" without noting that Baldwin Hills is a city-named place and that Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw is a creation of the Los Angeles Times that neither the city nor other sources recognize. [8] To be accurate, it would have to be stated that "The LA Times mapping project combines Baldwin Hills and Crenshaw into the neighborhood of Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw".

I hope that I have stated everything clearly. Yours, Phatblackmama (talk) 18:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@

Fenway-Kenmore and that's also a neighborhood real estate agents talk about. Actually, that reminds me that real estate agents are a good source of information about how neighborhood names are defined and used by people on the ground. I see online some LA rental agents talk about "Baldwin Hills" alone, but this one uses "Baldwin Hills-Crenshaw". -- Beland (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

Re: Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw...the

Wiltern Theater

, located at Wilshire and Western, derived its name). The LA Times (I can only assume) saw that name and, 20 years later, decided to combine the two neighborhoods. That makes sense, if your goal is reducing the number of neighborhoods in LA, as noted above.

You note that in Boston, wikipedia uses official names, such as

Fenway-Kenmore. In this case, the official names that the city and state use are: Baldwin Hills and Crenshaw. ^{[1] [2]} Other sources stick to those official names...You spent time googling "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw". I am sure you saw google's info box when searching for "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw"...you get the mall, not a neighborhood (https://ibb.co/59s9ffd). Versus googling "Baldwin Hills", which displays an info box with a city map and neighborhood information (https://ibb.co/m4YYYhz). Or "Crenshaw", which does the same (https://ibb.co/ZB1pZ7c

).

You also mention that you found one real estate agent who uses that name. That is not a notable source.

To be clear, I have no problem listing "Crenshaw", "Baldwin Hills", and "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" in the grid. But each listed individually...respecting the fact that the city and state considers them separate and distinct neighborhoods and, concurrently, that the LA Times considers them to be one. Wikipedia must remain neutral. Phatblackmama (talk) 00:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@

common name, not necessarily the official name, though that's for two names for the same thing, not two names for related things of different sizes. I use Duck Duck Go, not Google; I get an infobox for Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw, Los Angeles when I search on "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" and not when I search for "Baldwin Hills Crenshaw". Google happens to ignore the punctuation that makes the difference and Duck Duck Go doesn't. Both are using Wikipedia to power infoboxes for neighborhoods, so it's a bit circular to rely on them for what Wikipedia should title its articles. Notability

is not a criterion for sources; that's for determining what articles to have.

Are you sure the LA Times' naming isn't reflecting a real overlap in identification or naming or culture? After all, Baldwin Village has apparently been part of Crenshaw since it was The Jungle(s), but now it has "Baldwin" in the name. -- Beland (talk) 02:17, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When searching "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" you do get an info box..for the mall, not a neighborhood. ^[1] But you use duck duck go, which processes around 1.5 billion searches every month. Google, in contrast, processes around 3.5 billion searches every day. Needless to say, more people see the mall when searching "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" and a neighborhood when searching "Crenshaw" or "Baldwin Hills". A lot more people. And Bing comes up with the mall also.

You correctly note that some of the information in the info boxes on google are from wikipedia. But not the maps. They use city maps, not the LA Times mapping project.

And

reliable source

to define a neighborhood. That's all ya got?

It seems that you are trying to come up with some reason as to how or why the LA Times came up with the entity "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw". That is not our job. We are supposed to cite sources....and both city and state, and the Los Angeles Times (prior to the mapping project), use the separate names of "Baldwin Hills" and "Crenshaw". And, a decade after the mapping project finished, the city, state,

Los Angeles magazine have not used the name "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw" either as a stand-alone or as a parent neighborhood. Phatblackmama (talk) 04:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Talk:List of districts and neighborhoods of Los Angeles

, I think a more likely theory is there are some blocks certain people call "Crenshaw" (like Google Maps does) and other people call "Baldwin Hills" (like Brightwell) and the LA Times decided not to pick one over the other, or couldn't draw a clear boundary between those identities. If you don't agree, that's fine; we have already agreed to recognized the LA Times definitions as one of several sources to be cited in LA neighborhood articles.

Just FYI, search engine results are automated (I'm a programmer; I've built search engines and built robots that used search engines to answer questions), and the top results and infobox results have not necessarily been verified by a person to be correct, and higher-traffic doesn't necessarily mean more accurate for any given query. If I ask Google "what is the population of Mars", it tells me "ten billion humans". "Who is the king of Mars?" Abraham Lincoln. Google results are also personalized based on search history, so not everyone sees the same results. The infobox result from Duck Duck Go for "what is the population of Mars" happens to be Colonization of Mars, but ::shrug:: it got lucky. -- Beland (talk) 04:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Initial idea

It would be helpful to readers to sort this list geographically rather than alphabetically. Do any of these neighborhoods contain the others? Is the next level up the regions listed in Template:Los Angeles? -- Beland (talk) 02:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea...in concept. I agree that it would be very useful to group them as you suggested. I just cannot visualize how it would look. Phatblackmama (talk) 02:49, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It used to be that way, PBM . . . Go to here for an example. It was changed to an alphabetical listing because the reader might not know in what part of L.A., one could find (as an example) Eagle Rock. Now, the reader can eyeball the entire list of districts and neighborhoods at (more or less) one glance. Also, a simple alphabetical list avoids all the fights about in what region any particular neighborhood or district belongs. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:10, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I assumed Beland was talking about a format that could be sorted by clicking on a header and sorting the list alphabetically, then clicking on another header and re-sorting it by region. But if it is an "either/or" situation, I would rather keep it alphabetically. Phatblackmama (talk) 03:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As someone not familiar with LA, the alphabetical sort isn't all that informative for me. I very much like your idea of a table with multiple sort options; throwing in a column for population would be even better, if such information is available. Another way to go would be to have a map, which would be even better for non-Angelinos. At least in Boston the city has established official neighborhood zones for parking purposes which clarifies the boundaries; not sure about LA. -- Beland (talk) 16:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In Los Angeles, there seem to be more battles over neighborhood boundaries than over who will be elected mayor. That makes creating a complicated listing rather, uh, complicated. Anyway, there is a way to find articles about districts and regions in the links at the bottom of the page. Or, one could just go to the neighborhood article and see in what region any given neighborhood lies, or is said to lie. Population listings are, for the most part, unavailable or old. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 18:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The "region" listings at the bottom of the page are either from the Los Angeles Times mapping project or from the 12 regions designated in the Neighborhood Council maps ^[1]. Perhaps I am missing something, but I am not seeing conflict. I would have headings for those two sources, along with City Council districts ^[2].

As an example, Carthay Circle would listed under "neighborhood". Next to it, under the heading "region" would be "Central Los Angeles". Under the heading "Neighborhood Council" would be "Central 1". And under the heading "Council District" would be "10".

One could then click on the heading "region" and group everything in "Central Los Angeles" together. Or click on "Neighborhood Council" and see all those neighborhoods grouped together. Same with "Council district".

I am not seeing a downside. Phatblackmama (talk) 21:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some neighborhoods are identified by one source as being in one region or area and are identified by another source as being in an adjoining region or area. There would be dissension; people are very possessive of their neighborhoods. Westside Village, Los Angeles, for example, is traditionally in Palms, Los Angeles, but has been placed with a neighborhood council across the freeway. There are scores of other boundary issues. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:04, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing a problem with the grid below. This is all empirical evidence. Phatblackmama (talk) 18:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This looks great! I wouldn't worry about "dissension" destabilizing this article. In some cases, there are objective facts which people may not like (such as what council the city has grouped their neighborhood into) but which aren't in dispute. Where sources disagree about where neighborhood or region boundaries are, we can simply note that a given area might be considered to be a part of either, or just consistently pick one source and note other sources disagree. Lots of cities have the same problem with fuzzy neighborhood boundaries that are hotly contested, and we've managed to make plenty of neighborhood articles without exploding. -- Beland (talk) 19:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chart (edited)

Discussion of chart

Thanks for the effort. The chart looks, well, chart-like. I'll just make my points: (1) Trying to put

Looks great. I approve. Redspork02 (talk) 20:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea of a searchable grid; however (I may have missed a few points since I read this quickly) things are not always consistent across sources. For example, we have the official regions set by the City of Los Angeles (Area Planning Commission areas) and then we have the regions used by sources like the Los Angeles Times. Area Planning Commission areas are then divided into Community Plan areas. (Sometimes a CPA falls partly in two APC areas, but even in those cases the CPA is still mostly all in one APC area with a very small outlying part.) CPAs are then divided by neighborhood council, which are officially recognized. (Similarly, neighborhood councils also sometimes represent areas within more than one CPA, but usually just small outlying portions.)

While Mapping L.A. is a very useful project, it merges neighboring census tracts together in defining communities. This is great for reporting data, but its limitation (as stated on the Mapping L.A. website) is that those boundaries are often out of sync with the historical, demographic, architectural, and other contexts that actually define communities. For this, we should look to the city community plans, neighborhood councils, and SurveyLA. These sources would state what area Melrose Hill, for example, falls under.

Therefore, if we are to include a chart, my suggestion is to list the neighborhood, include what CPA it falls under and what APC area it falls under. Those are official sources that would not result in an edit conflict. Sorry if I misunderstood anything. Keep up the good work, all. --Precision123 (talk) 20:59, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BeenAroundAWhile: To take those examples one at a time, I added Sawtelle to the chart as I think it should be, based on its article and the referenced sources (and my lack of native familiarity with LA geography). Since this is a list of neighborhoods of the city of Los Angeles, the part outside the city isn't really included in the scope of the list. It's informative to note neighborhoods that by some definitions extend outside of the city, and I've implied that in the table. Does that make sense? -- Beland (talk) 05:22, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BeenAroundAWhile: I've just added Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw based on research from afar. Our articles contradict each other on what the direct parent neighborhood of Baldwin Village is, so I've started a discussion on Talk:Baldwin Village, Los Angeles. If that's disputed, that ambiguity can be noted on the chart and all the affected articles. Otherwise, this is a good example of how to handle smaller neighborhoods inside larger ones. -- Beland (talk) 15:35, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The LA Times map says Melrose Hill is in East Hollywood, Central LA, and the Brightwell map agrees. The sources also agree that Solano Canyon is in

Solano Canyon, Los Angeles currently redirects (it has a section). -- Beland (talk) 16:01, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

We get into problems very quickly if you want to nest neighborhoods. I disagree with it as a concept. You indicate that the LA Times map places Melrose Hill in East Hollywood. However, if you google East Hollywood, you will see that google uses the city of Los Angeles map [1] (not the LA Times map) of East Hollywood in the infobox. (https://ibb.co/mSqkcgr) And Melrose Hill is not within that area. So whose map do you use? Google made a choice...choosing the city map over the LA Times. And they can make a choice...but wikipedia is supposed to remain neutral. Rather than get into arguments, I think each neighborhood should be placed only within the largest of regions - Central, South, Westside, etc. - and sort out any minutia on the individual pages. Phatblackmama (talk) 22:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To make the page easier to navigate and edit, one thing we could do is have separate charts for each region, one per section. It would make the list not sortable across regions, but I'm not sure what other columns a unified chart would really need to be sorted by. As someone not from LA, knowing the region of a neighborhood is probably all the detail I would care to know most of the time, though it's handy to be able to drill down and know how neighborhoods are related on a small scale when looking at real estate or local stories or something. -- Beland (talk) 16:11, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want this sortable across all regions. And again, to the point I made above...whose map do you use? user Precision123 suggests using official regions set by the City of Los Angeles (Area Planning Commission areas) instead of the regions created by the Los Angeles Times. I hoped that using the broadest of areas (Central, South, Westside etc.) we could avoid conflict. But this will certainly run into opposition if we go smaller than that. Phatblackmama (talk) 22:53, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the Baldwin Hill area neighborhoods into the chart individually. The list remains sortable by neighborhood council and council district. The nesting used in the next section does not allow for this, as it lists multiple neighborhood councils and multiple council districts. Phatblackmama (talk) 23:11, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If there are two maps that disagree, the way to avoid conflict is to reflect both, using annotations. Pretending that granular relationships don't exist isn't helpful to readers, and this information is presented on article pages anyway, so it's not helpful to editors either. If you want to keep give each lowest-level neighborhood its own row, that's fine; we can indicate parent neighborhoods (ambiguous or otherwise) by adding a column. -- Beland (talk) 01:53, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So how would you rectify

Mid-City? The City has placed neighborhood signs as far east as Hoover Street ^[2], and as far west as Culver City, drawing a much larger Mid-City area than the LA Mapping project. This map is acknowledged by google when you search for Mid-City, Los Angeles (https://i.ibb.co/xj8cQdQ/Midcity.png). That would encompass Arlington Heights, which falls within the delineated area. That contradicts the LA Mapping project, which reduces Mid-City to a much smaller area and places Arlington Heights

adjacent to it.

Again, this is all noted on the individual pages, but trying to cram contradictory information into a grid would make it useless. The use I see for a sortable, simple grid....being able to locate your own neighborhood, see what council district you are in, then sort by council district and see what other neighborhoods you are grouped with. Then resort by neighborhood council to see what neighborhoods are in your council. Those all have real world implications when one is looking to become involved in their community. Phatblackmama (talk) 02:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If there are no parts of Mid-City that are not covered by a more-specific article, then there's no need for Mid-City to have a row in the table. It would be linked from smaller neighborhoods in the Notes column as "part of

Mid-City" but the council info in the row would apply to the smaller neighborhood. -- Beland (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

Can someone kindly summarize the points of discussion here? Thank you. --Precision123 (talk) 23:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The people discussing a chart believe that there SHOULD be a chart. That belief is not shared by all. In fact, I am saying right now that the current layout is the best one, and there should be no change. At present, every neighborhood is listed alphabetically (very sensible). Several years ago the list was divided geographically, a division that did not make sense because often searchers would not know what geographical area a given community was placed. In fact, some communities are difficult to place in a larger area; they could go either left or right of an area's (indistinct) dividing line. Anyway, the alphabetical listing was and is the most reasonable way to organize this list. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:35, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's more, editing a chart is much more difficult than editing a list. If we get a new neighborhood (which happens), it is very confusing to try to insert it into a chart. It's pretty easy just to put the newcomer in alphabetical order in a list. That's the way Angelus Vista, Los Angeles, was added to the list just a few months ago. So, there is no WP:consensus to make any change in layout, and I don't believe there will be. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:55, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Angeles Mesa, Los Angeles, was easily added the same way. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_districts_and_neighborhoods_of_Los_Angeles&type=revision&diff=952906455&oldid=952822589. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 23:18, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be help to explain the boundaries of Crenshaw Manor in a stub article or a section of the Crenshaw, Los Angeles article. It looks like there might not be a place that is just "Crenshaw" and not part of some other thing, as the Brightwell map has a neighborhood called Crenshaw Manor, but nothing called Crenshaw (but it says certain neighborhoods are part of the Crenshaw area). Google Maps considers "Crenshaw" to include everything in Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw east of South La Brea Ave, plus some blocks north of West Jefferson Boulevard. The Brightwell map considers most of the blocks southwest of MLK to be in Baldwin Hills, and Google Maps considers that to be Crenshaw, so maybe that's why the LA Times just calls it "Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw", because people really do use both names for some overlapping territory. Google Maps unhelpfully considers Crenshaw Manor to be an apartment building and Baldwin Hills/Crenshaw to be a mall. -- Beland (talk) 02:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The official names that the city and state use for the neighborhood is Crenshaw. ^{[3] [4]} Additionally, Brightwell places "Crenshaw Manor" between West Adams to the north and the Baldwin Hills and Crenshaw areas to the south. Google maps delineates a very specific area for "Crenshaw". And prior to the Mapping Project, the LA Times referred to the area as "Crenshaw" ^[5] ("older Japanese-Americans in Crenshaw evince a stubborn pride", "Mabel Ota, now in her 70s, who moved to Crenshaw in 1954"....)

I therefore don't understand why you would say "there might not be an place called "Crenshaw"? Analysis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources is considered

WP:ORIGINAL. Phatblackmama (talk) 03:17, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

What I'm saying is that there might not be a place that's only called Crenshaw, as opposed to both Crenshaw and something more specific. I'm just trying to understand what the sources say, not make up something new! I actually just read the Brightwell description you posted above, but looking at his map, there's no place I can find that is "Crenshaw" but not "Crenshaw Manor" and not "Baldwin Village". I've already updated the Crenshaw, Los Angeles article with the boundaries projected by Google Maps. -- Beland (talk) 04:08, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is Crenshaw Manor: the area bounded by the following streets is officially designated as "Crenshaw Manor": Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard, from Chesapeake Avenue to Crenshaw Boulevard. Exposition Boulevard, from Chesapeake Avenue to Crenshaw Boulevard. Crenshaw Boulevard, from Exposition Boulevard to Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard. Chesapeake Avenue, from Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard to Exposition Boulevard. ^[6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phatblackmama (talk • contribs) 00:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Aha, that looks like what the Brightwell map calls "Crenshaw Manor". Then where is "Crenshaw" according to these sources? -- Beland (talk) 04:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

BeenAroundAWhile, I happened to see this entry in an edit summary and remembered there is an article. It's currently a part of Chinatown, but there is a community memory of it. If past neighborhoods aren't part of the main list, perhaps a Past section for historical neighborhoods could be created. I re-added the entry with a wikilink to the list. If I'm mistaken about any of this rv and reply. Hope things are well.   // Timothy :: talk  23:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sonoratown is now in the list. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 23:39, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not from US, but that is a name I always remember because it sounds funny. Surely this should be on the list right? 92.238.237.65 (talk) 14:06, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inglewood ("up to no good" per "California Love") is a separate municipality within Los Angeles County, California, see Inglewood, California, and it has its own neighborhoods. jengod (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]