Talk:List of windmills in the United States

I propose to merge List of windmills in Illinois, List of windmills in New York, and List of windmills in Rhode Island back into List of windmills in the United States. The split is not required by size. Note the U.S.-wide list has only 13,786 bytes, while a very old rule of thumb is that a split is justified by size if an article has grown over 100,000 (or was it 200,000?). When recombined, all locations in the U.S. having coordinates will show in just one linked OpenSourceMap map. This will serve readers better. (Note this came up in discussion at Talk:List of museum ships). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:18, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging User:Mjroots, User:Djflem, User:Swampyank, User:CaptJayRuffins as editors of one or more of these pages. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:38, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I suggest that the first column should be the windmill names, as "Windmills", then the second column should be "Location", which naturally includes coordinates. Instead of "Location" and then "Name of mill / and coordinates". And use "Image" rather than "Photograph", allowing for drawings or other types of images. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:45, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anticipating this merger will be acceptable, and eager to see the now-active map of all coordinates in OSM, i went ahead and copied in the 3 tables and two sources (which can be removed if merger not agreed). If merger is agreed upon, it remains to redirect the 3 list-articles (leaving categories in place) and to remove "{{further|List of windmills in Illinois}}", "{{further|List of windmills in New York}}", "{{further|List of windmills in Rhode Island}}". --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Before I can think of expanding the list, I’ve been finding that it has grown exponentially since I created it to find my way around the ‘eleven’ smock mills on the east end. Now I have 21, and mock mills that have history of their own. While I can see that my descriptions and columns are outdated, and coming to know them by name, it’s time to do an update. I am just not convinced it would be workable. With over 300 on Long Island, adding Cape Cod, Rhode Is, Conn and Nova Scotia is a massive undertaking. I just did Orient Point on the north fork, +4. Left out the tide mill/windmill in Mattituck. Still researching the Glen Island one advertised when it first opened. Three on Manhattan, one of those was either inside Fort George or outside. Help, I’m overwhelmed by petticoats… CaptJayRuffins (talk) 00:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Review needed: Draft:Orient Windmills, NY CaptJayRuffins (talk) 00:49, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Petticoats? There is some expression about fog and petticoats that I don't recall right now. That is about

Draft:Orient Windmills, NY, which is meant to be a separate article? I am so glad you are back and on the job! Offhand I like all material about windmills, whether historical or replica... A review is asked for there, when perhaps you mean to "submit" it within the Articles For Creation process? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 09:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply

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The 8 sided 'SMOCK' mills were also called 'Petticoat mills' as they resembled the dress & also work coverings called a smock. Hope that helps... CaptJayRuffins (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Byte size is not the only consideration. There is also the physical length that these lists reach to consider. This is the reason that 20 entries was decided on as the threshold for a stand alone list. Mjroots (talk) 06:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose..List of windmills in New York is way long enough for stand-alone..Djflem (talk) 16:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I didn't anticipate any disagreement actually. Let's not get all territorial (pun?) and do let's work together to improve the List of windmills system of articles, which overall is a great thing. I do appreciate, very much, the work of all editors in the past on these. I just now re-removed the copies of Illinois, New York, and Rhode Island tables from here, which i had gone ahead and copied in, in order to avoid any confusion about where information about New York windmills should be edited, etc. (And I see that CaptJayRuffins has just made edits in the separate List of windmills in New York, as well as making some edits in the (non-duplicated) New Jersey section of this U.S.-wide list.)

One thing in passing: these are supposed to be lists of Windmills, not lists of "Locations". And, maybe more so in the United States than elsewhere that Mjroots has written about, individual windmills all have names. So the "windmill" should be the first column, and "location" second. And coordinates are part of location, they are not part of a windmill's name.

The fact that the New York windmills are legitimate or whatever, is besides the point, IMHO. I myself don't see any problem, readability-wise, for the reader to read and enjoy the New York material as part of the U.S. wide list. Being "way long enough for stand-alone" is not a reason, IMHO, to separate out the New York table, when in my opinion it is better for it to appear in the nation-wide list. It is not a matter of "prestige" (my air-quote) for New York or anything like that. The "supremacy" (my air-quote) in fact of New York's windmills is made clear when they are included in the U.S.-wide list, and the linked OSM map (as it was before I just re-removed the IL, NY and RI material, anyhow) shows the great concentration in New York, and specifically in Long Island, and specifically in the eastern end of Long Island, relative to the very few scattered other examples nation-wide. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 09:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Duh on all of us: there are lots of windmills in Massachusetts, too. The list-article lost its link, in this edit in 2022, to the separate List of windmills in Massachusetts.

Check out current linked OSM map, which informs the reader, incorrectly, that windmills in the U.S. are few (both because many windmills so far lack coordinates, and also because at least 4 states' ones are left out), and more in the center of the country than anywhere else. I am thinking about a way to MacGiver a linked map which draws on coordinates in separate list-articles, which would address the problem. The possibility I'm thinking hasn't been done in mainspace Wikipedia before, AFAIK.

But, really, duh on all of us for not noticing, even with my statements about all the windmills being in New York, which should have jarred someone knowledgeable (which obviously i am not). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:09, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]