Talk:Mimar Sinan

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From Commons: "a very similar drawing was first published in 1927 in an article by Tosyavizade Rifat Osman Bey. He claimed that it was drawn by the deceased artist Hazan Riza who had copied it from an Italian engraving made during Sinan's lifetime. According to the historian Gülru Necipoğlu, this forms part of the invented history of Sinan." In other words, Necipoğlu, who is an authority on the subject, says that it is an invented portrait. And we don't illustrate biographies with invented portraits. On the other side, according to Necipoğlu, the "messy" (!) miniature portraits Sinan (see "The Age of Sinan", p. 135, fig. 118), and dates 1579, so it is much more probable that it depicts the architect as he really was. Alex2006 (talk) 09:35, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The current image is about contemporary, the other has the appearance of a modern drawing, just a generic man with a beard (though I'm guessing Sinan probably had a beard for most of his life, I think it was the style at the time). Current image clearly preferable

WP:LEADIMAGE IMO. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

I apologise for not reading that description.

However, if the other image fails because it cannot be determined if it is Sinan or not, surely the other image fails as well, as it is only "possibly" Sinan? The Madras (talk) 10:54, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, if a

WP:RS says "possibly" (and WP makes this clear), it's good enough for the purpose (I'm unaware of better alternatives). As I understand it, there is no doubt the scene is the construction of the mausoleum for Sultan Süleyman I, which he was involved in. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

Noting that my general opinion is that if we can have something contemporary on a historical person, we should. "Maybe that person" is not unique on WP, see for example Xerxes I, Christopher Marlowe and William Shakespeare. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:13, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to Necipoğlu, the architect portrayed in the miniature is Sinan. Here her comment to the image: "Sinan oversees the construction of Süleyman's mausoleum while the funeral cortege in the foreground carries a royal coffin". 1579. Alex2006 (talk) 11:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is that from Cicek Kemal: The Great Ottoman Turkish Civilisation. Ankara 2000. p. 450. or somewhere else? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, the citation is from "The Age of Sinan", a beautiful book whose English edition was printed in 2005. Alex2006 (talk) 14:56, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Then I assume the "maybe" is from the Kemal book, but I can't confirm it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:26, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]