Talk:Nikolai Berzarin

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This article is totally unsourced and quite clearly POV. To show some contrary opinions:

Mr. Barzarin, one of the youngest Generals of the Soviet Army, served as a commandant of the defeated Berlin from April 28th to June 16th, 1945. This extraordinary man made every effort to save Berlin from hunger immediately after Nazi Germany's capitulation. His personal contribution is widely acknowledged. It was he who was responsible for the restoration of normal life in the city. He died in an accident that remains a mystery for many historians.[1]

Colonel General Nikolai Berzarin was now the formal commandant of Berlin. He was a very conscientious man, trying to keep Berliners fed and restore the city to working order, and even dropping into messhalls to casually chat with the citizenry. He would be later killed in a completely idiotic traffic accident, and Berliners would mourn him, with rumors floating around that Berzarin had actually been murdered by the NKVD.[2]

Or, for that matter: de:Nikolai Erastowitsch Bersarin.

--jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, for me it is quite sure that the text here is based on the same user. In de.wp he changed the first paragraph to this version, which is in translation pretty the same like the text here. The date and time of the edits also fit together. The user Menschenrechtler was registered yesterday in de.wp.

If i take a look on "died 16 June 1945 in Berlin) war a Russian Red Army" i see the not translated word "war" ("was" in english), which is in the de.wp article at the same position, obviously the author forget to translate it from the german text.

I don't know if there is any truth in the edits, but to describe Bersarin as a war criminal and a person who "is responsible for mass rapes of women and other crimes against the civilian population" is first undocumented and second untrustworthy. The best we can do is to take a book about Bersarin and write the known and documented facts into the article. I doubt that the author can document his version. I hope i could help. greetings --BLueFiSH ✉ 15:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The crimes that happened in Berlin during Soviet occupation is described in the book Berlin - The Downfall 1945 by Anthony Beevor. As these crimes happened under the command of Berzarin, he was responsible. He is also known for his deportation of 40,000 Balts. There obviously was a reason for why the democratic government of Berlin removed him from the list of honorary citizens after the fall of communism, and this was the reason. Similarly, there obviously is a reason for why a party classified as left-extreme by the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz and a senator known for defamation of victims of Stasi terror chose to reverse the decision of democratic parties: an attempt to distort history by those opposed to democracy and human rights, those who were the Täter during the stalinist dictatorship. This man is without doubt by all recognized standards a major war criminal, who should have faced a death sentence in Nuremberg. Donnog 19:46, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even the German Wikipedia (version protected by some PDS member) writes:

"1975 wurde ihm postum die Ehrenbürgerschaft Ost-Berlins verliehen. 1992 wurde er aus der Ehrenbürgerliste gestrichen, da er als Oberkommandierender der Roten Armee im Baltikum für die Deportation von über 40000 Balten im Juni 1941 verantwortlich war. Am 11. Februar 2003 verlieh im das Berliner Abgeordnetenhaus erneut die Ehrenbürgerschaft Berlins. Die Entscheidung war Anlass heftiger Kritik. Gegner dieser Entscheidung sehen seinen Einsatz für die Wiederbelebung Berlins als reine Pflichterfüllung an und bewerten seine Beteiligung am Stalin-Regime als verwerflich." Donnog 20:03, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deportation of civilians (ethnic cleansing) is a serious war crime. Donnog 20:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• And this is why you made the article say he was responsible for the "mass rapes of women"? I'm sorry, but every so-called translation you've made from German is biased to the point of bigotry. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:36, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • Yes, this is why I'm saying he was responsible for the mass rapes of women the forces under his command committed. Donnog 00:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • Anyway, this is not a translation from German. The German article is deliberately downplaying his war crimes, and does not even mention in the introduction that the man was responsible for the deportation of 40,000 people. Donnog 00:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • • "version protected by some PDS member": EOD for me, also in de.wp. ciao. --BLueFiSH ✉ 04:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I've replaced the entire article with a start at a translation of the German article. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Left-extreme neo-stalinist propaganda removed. Donnog 15:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• ... and replaced by right-extreme neo-fascist propaganda. This article remains unsourced and is now an attack page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.247.224.122 (talk) 22:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, excuse my bad english. In the article is mentioned that "human right groups" protested when he was honorated again - I will talk about his "warcrimes" later on but first i want to say that this point is a lie. The groups that complained were basically the "CDU", a party that was highly popular for old nazis, to example Hans Filbinger ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Filbinger ), and that had good contacts with the fascist regime of pinochet in chile. the head of the CDU, angela merkel called out a few days ago she would be "glad" about the killing of osama bin laden. few years ago, they had a scandal for schooling kroatian fascists. Calling those people a "human right group" is a punch in the face of any real human right group.

About the above discussion: While the PDS was a left party, considered as the socialist Party of Germany, not the communist (PDS = Partei Deutscher Sozialisten), the SPD in Berlin can be called a party of the politically mid with some leftish contents, the green party could be considered as soft-left-libertarian (known for their engagement for regenerative powers and co.). Bersarin sei im Herbst 1939 Militärbefehlshaber im Westen gewesen, als die Sowjetunion in Absprache mit Hitler die baltischen Staaten überfallen, annektiert und allein aus Lettland 47 000 Menschen deportiert habe. Diese Behauptung ist anhand der Personalakte längst widerlegt und auch niemals mehr wiederholt worden. In Wirklichkeit wurde Bersarin erst Ende Mai 1941 von Irkutsk nach Riga versetzt - knapp vier Wochen vor dem deutschen Überfall.

Bersarin was called to be a military operator in the west, when the sovjet union collaborated with hitler to raid the baltic states, annected them, and deported 47000 humans just from Lettland. this statement was proven wrong with his personnel file and was never repeated later on: For real Bersarin was moved from Orkutsk to Riga in the end of may 1941, ca. 4 weaks before the german aggression. Again, excuse my bad english, i hope you can get the meaning. Sourcce: http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2000/0508/feuilleton/0005/index.html

Not even the CDU tried to imply anymore that he was responsible for the deportation, and as far as i know they never could deliver any source for their statement about him. The statement that he is "famous for many war crimes against civilian population in the Baltic countries and Germany." is not holdable in any way - for the baltic thing see above, and no source makes him responsible for any warcrimes in germany. Formulations like "Like every allied commander"... are a wrong as well. He actually was the one who decided to allow political parties in germany (they were forbidden before), and his engagement to improve the situation of the people is outstanding in this issue (thats why he got the honoration after all ;). There might be violation of human rights be done by soldiers of his army, but since he tryed to track and punish the violators, he can't be seen as the responsible person here - and actually you would have to set this in every military commanders article - why cant i find it to example in the article of "Rommel", Alexander the Great or the actual commanders in the Irak? If we write it here, we have to write it everywhere (In my opinion it would not be wrong to give hints of the cruels of war as often as possible, but i'm afraid the people who are responsible for the sentence here beg to differ).

If you want to criticise the SU, there are enough better places, and they done enough shit- no need to spread fictional facts here.

--91.49.174.169 (talk) 12:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]