Talk:Pieter Claesen Wyckoff

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Why was the following not an acceptable addition?

Meaning of the Surname When the British took over the Dutch colony in 1664, Pieter Claesen adopted the fixed surname of Wyckoff. Although many still believe that this choice was based on two Dutch words ("Wyk" means parish or magistrate and "hof" means court), a more plausible explanation may be attributed to Hans Schrader, President of the German Genealogy Group:

The word "Hof" can mean "court", but in the sense of a ROYAL court. The word for a legal court is ENTIRELY different (Gericht). A second and more common meaning for "Hof" is "a farm, country house or Manor(house).."(Cassell's Erman-English/English-German Dictionary). This is, in my opinion, the applicable meaning... There are also several derivatives of the meaning of "Wyk". None that I am aware of is "parish". The closest is one you will not find in any current dictionary, but means an area around a church which was dedicated to regular markets. Again the more common meaning (as per the above and other sources) is "creek, cove, bay". Peter Claessen is clearly documented as being "Pieter Claessen van (from) Norden". Although now landlocked due to Dutch-like land reclamation efforts, Norden was a major North Sea trading port until the 19th century. A few miles from Norden, across from and on the then existing bay was a large building which was used as a storage and trans-shipment point by North Sea seafarers. This was an ancient building, with a colorful history going back well before PC's time. I have an aerial photo, and floor plan, of this building, which unfortunately burned down in the 1950s. It has been replaced by a modern residence, which is still called the WYCKHOF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.45.25.104 (talk) 02:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know why it isn’t acceptable. Maybe too conversational. But I will say that what you posted there is added a lot to the discussion for me. I was originally very skeptical of the surname origin section and its source based on what is written there, but that additional detail makes it much stronger as an argument. Cowboydan76 (talk) 20:51, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I’m a 9th great grandson of Pieter. The section about the origin of the surname seems pretty definitive in its claim that the surname comes from the Frisian “settlement on a bay.” I’m assuming that to be an accurate representation of the Frisian meaning, but I still find this meaning to be speculative, though in fairness I haven’t read the original source for the claim. Given that we know he was a justice of the peace and the essentially perfect phonetic match between “parish court” and Wyckoff, I think this must remain at least a co-equal possible origin for the name.

I’m certainly open to any further argument made by the source, but as presented, the idea that he was naming himself after a vague geographic description of his hometown seems a bit thin as a theory.

I myself am a lawyer and come from St. Louis originally. If someday I were to become a prominent judge, and well known in my community for that reason, and I were to be charged to pick a surname from scratch, linguists and genealogists of the future trying to determine the reason for my choice- lending itself comfortably to two possible interpretations in two different languages I’d have been very familiar with- would, I think, have a better chance of accuracy by guessing “of the Circuit Court” rather than “City on a River.” The former would speak more to me as a person, and to achievements I would no doubt be proud of, especially given humble beginnings. It would also be a better identifier of me by members of the community who probably have little or no knowledge of my hometown and its geography, but might recognize me as Dan from the local court.

But let’s suppose he was intending to express pride in his geographic origins. It strikes me that there would be a lot more likely choices than “settlement on a bay.” He could have gone with “the Frisian,” (De Vries, like some of his contemporaries from the area), van Norden, etc.

I’m not saying the Frisian geographic origin of the name is unreasonable or impossible. But I certainly don’t think the evidence for it is strong enough to dismiss the opinion that it comes from the term for parish court in Dutch (which, of course, was the Lingua Franca of the area in the mid-1600s New Amsterdam/New York) as the naïve speculation of a “well-intentioned genealogist.” I think my distant cousin William Wyckoff’s interpretation is at least as likely to be incorrect speculation, at least based on the case made in the section here, and without having the full book in hand. Cowboydan76 (talk) 16:50, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]