Talk:Queen of Elphame

A fact from Queen of Elphame appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 December 2009 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that the Queen of Elphame, the fairy from Scottish folklore, has appeared in a number of accounts from witchcraft trials and confessions, including the confession of Isobel Gowdie? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/December.

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Dame Habonde redirects here, but no mention of her is made in the article. She currently appears in the article Abundantia, so although this better-developed, I'll change the redirect, pending her inclusion here. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is to serve notice that I have rectified the image that was formerly named Greenaway-truethomas.png and captioned "Thomas the Rhymer meets the Queen of Elphame in an illustration by Kate Greenaway" because this was misattribution. It has now been renamed File:Katherine Cameron-Thomas the Rhymer.png and captioned "From Thomas the Rhymer (retold by Mary MacGregor, 1908), "Under the Eildon tree Thomas met the lady", illustration by Katherine Cameron."
Uploader's source (Alyne de Winter's old site, deadlinked but webarchive crawlable; content migrated to her new domain name) did not provide artist or work, so the source of this Greenaway attribution is mystery to me (though lots of sites claim it was one of Greenaway's, and I don't know if Wikipedia was the originator of this error or if the wikiuser was one of the victim as well). Then I wasted a couple of hours trying to verify if Greenaway illustrated it, and after abandoning that line of inquiry, I just persisted with google image search until I finally discovered a site that didn't misattribute it to Greenaway.
It also didn't help the contributor of the caption used the "Queen of Elphame" label, which wasn't used by the work in which the illustration appeared, but that is another issue unto itself. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:31, 4 October 2013 (UTC)Reworded somewhat 01:11, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As per recent revision by me, use of "Queen of Elphame" spelling should be discouraged. It does not find circulation in any of the sources I examined re Thomas the Rhymer, while they tend to use "Queen of Fairy" which is a standard established (English) term. I suppose one might think it useful to have a term for the Scottish version of Fairy Queen. But "Elphame" isn't even an authentic variant of the Scots word, and was suggested in footnote and index entry by Robert Pitcairn, who read the "-hame" stem into the word as a conjecture.
The "Queen of Elphame" designation is used by Robert Graves, and the popularity of his mythology and writings spawned by them probably explains why some Wikipedians might want to use them, if they don't check further into more serious scholarship. But Graves has a notorious reputation in academia for his scholarly attempts. It seems I should simply be able refer to the Robert Graves wiki article directly on this, but the relevant critical passages have been expunged by several contributors not recently active. Still, you can read some of the criticism on the The Greek Myths and The White Goddess pages. --Kiyoweap (talk) 03:48, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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I think this would be best merged with Fairy Queen, perhaps as a geographical subsection. There's not much to differentiate them, and there's a lot of overlap. They're from geographically close traditions (Scottish vs. English and Irish), stories like Thomas the Rhymer and Tam Lin currently appear on both pages, the Queen of Elphame is called the Queen of the Fairies in some of the sources on this page, and as mentioned above, the word "Elphame" is a theoretical reconstruction anyway. 2601:6C1:C000:1320:490E:BC72:A112:4A8C (talk) 22:11, 19 October 2022 (UTC) Oh, and the page Fairyland currently treats the two as synonymous. Sgallison (talk) 22:23, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]