Talk:Shaun Alexander

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After blocking two ip's for vandalism, I noted that todays edit history is mostly clean up of bad faith ip edits. Under the circumstances I have semi-protected the article for 24 hours. When it expires would someone please remove the template from the article page? Cheers. LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Burner0718 ^{Jibba Jabba!} 20:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It says he signed with the Saints but nowhere on the internet is that said to be true and the source he gives says Alexander is done.

Might I suggest merging the 2008 Season and Free Agency sections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.26.68.146 (talk • contribs)

I've overhauled the headers/table of contents. I'll wait for suggestions from others before proceeding with merging the two sections. Latics (talk) 02:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, since nobody else has shown much interest in it ... I've merged relevant information to the Redskins section. :) Latics (talk) 03:37, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In reviewing the contents of the Shaun Alexander article, the conclusion reached is that the article is best served by maintaining the revisions in place as of the entry below:

(cur) (prev) 06:01, 15 September 2009 Latics (talk | contribs) m (29,456 bytes) (fix vandalism) (undo)

Bickering over minute details is not necessary and not benefiting the article content nor the Wikipedia site in general. This article is not "Owned" by any one person. It belongs to the Wikipedia community, and if a consensus has been reached as to the accuracy of an article, including the Shaun Alexander article information, that consensus should be respected.

Please do not make this a personal "tit for tat" regarding the contents.

As of the date and time mentioned above, the details and references in said contents has been confirmed.

Any additional information should be fully referenced so that it may be vetted and it's accuracy confirmed.

Wikifanboy (talk) 17:16, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You do realise that I fixed a link to the Japanese Wiki article with this edit, correct? –  LATICS  talk  04:28, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A recent article in the Seattle PI states clearly that Alexander is still Unemployed - he has not been signed by any NFL team since the Washington Redskins cut him last season. Here is the address of the article:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/archives/177602.asp

Here is a quote from that same article - the very first line of that article in fact:

"While the Seattle Seahawks brought in 31-year-old Edgerrin James this week, Shaun Alexander remains unemployed at the same age."

3 games into the regular season, all throughout the preseasons, Alexander has remained Unemployed.

I believe that since the article is quite recent and we are 3 weeks into the regular season, it is fair to state that Mr. Alexander is indeed a "former" player at this time.

Just because he, and possibly many of us, would like him to be employed by an NFL team, that does not mean it actually is the case.

Should that change, the article should be updated to reflect that as well. 71.197.145.9 (talk) 11:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because he is no longer with a team does not mean he is "former." Former implies he is retired, which he is not. –  LATICS  talk  04:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. He is a free agent, as the article states. If he formally retires, then he will be a former player. The creator of this section really needs to stop socking and edit-warring over this. Enigma^msg 04:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there actually a formal retirement process for the NFL? ++Arx Fortis (talk) 17:46, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To be officially retired, you have to file retirement papers with the NFLPA. Some guys don't for one reason or another, and their rights are still owned by a team (Jake Plummer for example.. or the few players that did not report) But most of the time, the unnoficial way to be retired is to be a free agent for 3-4 years without getting signed. RF23 (talk) 21:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, any "big name" player, such as Alexander, would likely come out and say he's retired (as an unofficial/official sort of way). – Latics ^Talk! 22:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and changed his listing to Former Player. He will be 33 (old for an NFL running back) by the start of the 2010 season, hasn't played in almost two years, and is not in any 2010 training camp. Whether he officially announces it or not, his NFL playing career is done. Raider Duck (talk) 21:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Someone keeps changing the page back to imply that Alexander is still an NFL player, and a "free agent." He isn't. He is a former player. He's been out of the NFL for almost two solid years, was declining physically before that, has elicited no interest from any NFL team, and is at an age (33) that is considered old for NFL running backs. He will never play in the NFL again. It makes no difference if he has officially "retired" or not. He will not play in the NFL again. Therefore, he is a former player.

If anyone disagrees, please provide the name of any other NFL running back who was past 30, out of professional football for two years (or more) due to lack of team interest, and then signed by an NFL team. Remember: we're not talking about a long-term injury rehabilitation (like Marcus Dupree or Robert Edwards) or a player going to the CFL, taking a voluntary sabbatical or somesuch. We're talking about a healthy running back (or other physically demanding position such as linebacker) actively soliciting NFL offers for years and receiving none.

I understand many fans of Alexander may like him, and may not want his outstanding NFL career to be over. But it is. And this article should reflect that. Raider Duck (talk) 14:16, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the place to discuss Alexander's abilities or analyze his career prospects. He's not officially retired, so continuing to list him as a free agent seems to be the right thing to do. You've been reverted by multiple editors, so please wait for consensus on the talk page to develop. Dayewalker (talk) 06:53, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objections to an honest discussion of how his status should be listed. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that anyone would think he isn't a former player, for the reasons I listed above. Most NFL running backs have an abysmally short tenure after age 30, due to the physically demanding nature of the position. While I agree that the discussion page should not turn into a wholesale discussion on Alexander's career prospects, I was attempting to articulate why a "former player" listing is correct. All I've been getting in response is a "He's an active player until he says he's not" edit war. Given his recent activities (going on a book tour, etc.), he probably didn't feel the need to make an official retirement announcement, or he may have a hard time "letting go" (i.e. Brett Favre). This does not change the fact that his chances of playing in the NFL again are roughly equivalent to Jimmy Carter's chances of winning a second Presidential term, or of Donald Trump marrying Rosie O'Donnell.

My posts on this discussion page were (IMHO) an attempt to reach a consensus, but you, Dayewalker, are the first person to actually respond instead of mindlessly reverting. Thank you. It is worth noting that of the users that have reverted me, only one (other than yourself) is an actual named editor; the others are all generic IP addresses from the greater Seattle area, which leads me to suspect that these other "multiple editors" may well be one die-hard Shaun Alexander fan. Raider Duck (talk) 07:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update

Dayewalker: A week ago, you sensibly reverted this article for consensus. Since then, nobody has given any reasons why Alexander should be listed as current player, as opposed to a former one. Here are the main reasons why he is a former player:

• He is 33 years old, which is considered ancient for an NFL RB.
• He has not played professional football for two years; we aren't talking about an active player who was cut last week.
• This involuntary sabbatical is not due to injury or other pursuits. It is due to lack of NFL interest.
• I was not able to find even one single example in modern NFL history of a healthy thirtysomething running back, involuntarily out of professional football for two years (or more), who was suddenly signed by an NFL team. It simply doesn't happen. Punters, placekickers and the occasional quarterback, maybe. Running backs, no.
• Judging by his Yards per Carry (5.1 to 3.6 to 3.5 to 2.2), he was physically declining for several years before his NFL exit.
• Given NFL roster limits and Alexander's own heavily eroded skill set, no NFL team is likely to sign him over a cheaper 23-year-old who would have equivalent current skills to Alexander, be able to play Special Teams, and have the potential to improve.

This is beginning to resemble the debate over whether the late Lucian Pulvermacher should have been listed as Pope Pius XIII or not. Just as it was decided that Pulvermacher's delusions should not be accommodated in an online encyclopedia, neither should delusions that Alexander is still a current NFL player. He isn't. His career is over. Therefore, he is a former player, and I will revert the article back. Raider Duck (talk) 14:22, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, your personal analysis of the situation is all

original research. I disagree with you still, but since no one else has weighed in here on the talk page, I've posted at the NFL project to see if someone there can give their option on the matter. That thread is here [1]. Dayewalker (talk) 19:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

Sometimes players retire, sometimes they don't. I don't think Freddie Mitchell ever officially retired, but it appears he will never play again. The difference between retired and not being signed by a team for again is a technicality. Also, free agent can be considered "former" since they are not currently on a team. Therefore, this is a moot point until he actually makes his retirement official. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the look-see, Eagles. So you approve of changing "free agent" to "former"? Dayewalker (talk) 21:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I approve both, but "former" makes the most sense right now. If Alexander is rumored to sign with a team at any point in the future, I think it should be changed to "free agent" again until speculation dies down or he signs with another team. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I still disagree, two years is easily too soon to assume he is a former player, maybe four years? Revert to Free Agent. Dappl (talk) 07:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What would happen in two years that would decide this change? It's not like he'll sign with a team in the next two years, and if he does, we'll fix the lead then. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stranger things have happened, While its unlikely Shaun will play again. He is still working out to play on a team this season. If its four years out of action, then we KNOW he wont play again. Two years is just too soon, maybe four years total? Dappl (talk) 19:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We already know he won't play again, simply because he hasn't been signed or even invited for a tryout in two years. For a 33-year-old running back, this is the NFL's (very cold) way of saying "Go Away." In the extremely unlikely event that he is signed by a professional football team, the page can certainly be updated at that time. For now, given the overwhelming likelihood that he will never play again, he is properly listed as a former player. Raider Duck (talk) 20:57, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me Raider Duck, but is your name "Shaun Alexander"? Do you KNOW he will never play? To say that its been two years since hes been trying to sign is not true, he was trying to get in last season, and is currently working out to get in a new team. All of your points are simply self research, he is attempting to get in this season. Attempting to sign =/= Former player. Teams have shown interest. Especially with his former MVP status. (Yes, this is all original research, just like Raider Duck) TL;DR Your not a sports analysist, your NOT a fortune teller, and your original research can't prove his status. Past experience can never prove the future, especially when hes getting offers, he's more or less too stubborn to sign for less than 1m a year. Dappl (talk) 07:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say that he wasn't "trying to sign." I said that no NFL team has signed or tried to sign him. No NFL Interest = Former Player. An exhaustive search of sports news finds no references to any NFL team working him out, signing him, or contemplating signing him during either this or last year's training camps, preseason or regular season. If I am wrong, please provide the links in your response. In keeping with notability guidelines, these should either be stories in major news (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News) sports (ESPN, Sports Illustrated, CBS Sportsline, FOX Sports) or local (local newspaper or a major team blog) outlets. Indeed, the only recent references to him at all are either mentions of his recent religious book and subsequent appearances on the 700 Club and other religious media outlets, or stories comparing him to recent Seahawks acquisition Marshawn Lynch and other current NFL players. Alexander, by comparison, is not a current NFL player. He is a former NFL player, and his entry should reflect this. Raider Duck (talk) 15:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/11/shaun-alexander-still-wants-to-play/ (proof teams were talking to him about signing). Teams were interested last year, Heres the thing that makes him different then other RB's, he was MVP. Thats a big title, and its why teams are still interested. He has potential to average 4.5 yards a carry. He is trying, other teams are trying, the only problem is, Shaun wont take less than 1m a year. Dappl (talk) 19:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That article is from over a year ago. I'm sure Freddie Mitchell still wants to play as well, but he's been out of the league for the last five years. "Former" and "free agent" both mean he is currently not on a team, but former works for the most part in the event he never plays again. If he does sign with a team, we can always change the article. It's not set in stone. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That article also makes no mention of any team either wanting to sign him, or even working him out. Simply because Shaun Alexander stated over a year ago (without any corroboration) that "some teams" (which he refused to even name) were contacting him does not make him an active player now, especially since last season came and went with no signing, or even any tryouts; for all we know, those teams were contacting him about a scouting, coaching or front-office position. His former MVP status probably got him his brief 2008 Redskins tenure, and his 2.2 yards/carry with Washington essentially proved the Seahawks correct in releasing him after two consecutive substandard years. There is no evidence that any NFL team is currently interested in Shaun Alexander. In fact, the article you cited even gave some of the same reasons I did why no NFL team would want him now (he's old, his skills are eroded, and there are many younger, cheaper players on the market now). Again, he is a former player, and the article rightly indicates that. Finally, the assertion that a 33-year-old Alexander could average 4.5 yards a carry is too ridiculous to even rebut. Raider Duck (talk) 21:21, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update #2/Protection Request

It appears that either Dappl or another user has been making multiple edits using various Seattle-area sock puppet IP accounts. This phantom user consistently refuses to discuss anything on the Discussion Page, and is instead mindlessly edit-warring. I'm going to request temporary Semi-Protection for this article. Raider Duck (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update #3/Status

According to his official NFL.com profile, Alexander is no longer an active member of the NFL [2].

Although he is supposedly not retired [3] the fact of the matter is if he hasn't found work by now two years after his departure from Washington, I doubt any team will call upon his services. - The Writer 2.0 ^Talk 21:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. Healthy 33-year-old running backs who have been out of professional football for years (due to lack of team interest -- we're not talking about a sabbatical or an extended injury rehab) do not magically get signed again by the NFL. It doesn't happen. In fact, I can't find even one instance in NFL history of it ever happening. Therefore, Alexander is a former player, and his entry should reflect that. Raider Duck (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update #4/Revert

The article has now been unlocked. Currently, we are running 3 (myself, The Writer 2.0, and Eagles 247) in favor of "Former Player," 1 (Dappl) in favor of "Free Agent," and Dayewalker has not stated his definitive preference. Given that 75% of those stating a preference have gone with "Former Player," I am reverting the page back forthwith. Raider Duck (talk) 19:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]