Talk:Three-man chess

Page contents not supported in other languages.
Source: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Requested move 28 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move all except

MOS:GAMECAPS result in a change in the guideline, another move discussion can be opened. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 14:44, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]


– Per

requires an en dash, not a hyphen; its name means 'falcon and hunter chess' not 'hunter-of-falcons chess'. PS: after the move, the text will need to be cleaned up. Many of these articles are rampantly over-capitalizing other names, too, e.g "Three-Handed Xiangqi" (which is also capitalized in ways that we wouldn't even in a proper name, in which case it would be "Three-handed Xiangi").  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:17, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Move all except Game of the Three Kingdoms per above. O.N.R. (talk) 02:11, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – with exception of Game of the Three Kingdoms per Luke and O. Yes, even Capablanca chess (which I find is more often "Capablanca's chess"); capped uses are most often "Capablance Chess Club", it looks like. Dicklyon (talk) 02:22, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment.
    Losing Chess is not currently listed in this RM.) The options are either to use caps always or to carefully consider each case. The example provided by the more numerous card games suggests considering individual cases. Quale (talk) 03:40, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Overturn GAMECAPS and renominate individually. Note that GAMECAPS was apparently only created a year or so ago, long after these articles were originally created and titled by editors who presumably knew the domain and picked capital letters. Also note that this discussion was apparently linked on
    WP:SPORTSCAPS, the original discussion on this, SMcCandlish wrote that "sources do not consistently capitalize them." Okay, sure, for sports / games / terms that aren't consistently capitalized, I agree that they they shouldn't be capitalized. But that needs to be shown on a case-by-case basis that capitalization is inconsistent or unclear. If 80% of sports/games are lowercase, what to do about the 20% that are consistently uppercased, like the Hearts example above? Lowercasing them as well by osmosis is clearly wrong. Anyway, checking, a huge number of these variants are sourced to David Pritchard's "Encyclopedia of Chess Variants" and thus not easily checkable, so it sounds like we should be asking what the usage is in that book and other reliable sources. SnowFire (talk) 23:10, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    This is a particularly good venue for considering them one at a time, as we're doing. If you see some that you think are proper names, point them out. Dicklyon (talk) 03:52, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I picked one at random to look into and found on the original article the edit summary includes "(please note: the reason "Chess" is capitalized is because "Parallel Worlds Chess" is the game name/game title)". By a user who is currently blocked, it appears. I don't see any reason to suspect more than it's the name of a game; that is, nothing suggesting a reason to think it's a proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 04:02, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of the current set of nominated articles appear to be obscure variants that should arguably be merged to a "List of chess variants" article anyway, so it's hard to say. The variant everyone has been talking about lately - which just had a technical move request, actually - is
    Fischer Random Chess. Checking sources for that, they generally just use "Fischer Random" in running text, but that's because it's obvious chess is being talked about. When Chess is mentioned, it's usually capitalized, but sometimes this is as part of a tournament name? I can't find any use of a lowercase chess, oddly enough. So for this more prominent variant, it tentatively looks like it might actually merit a capital C "chess". See [1], [2]. I don't claim to be familiar with the other variants very well, although LukeSurl's source seems to capitalize them all for whatever reason. No opinion on if that's one source being odd or the general consensus of sources on the topic. SnowFire (talk) 22:11, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    Here it's "Fischer random chess", and here "Fischer-random". This one has "one of Fischer's ideas – Random Chess". There's not a lot of evidence for proper-name status; most of the sources that cap it cap everything chess related. Dicklyon (talk) 02:20, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    "Fischer-random" actually used to be called out in the lede, but that's just an alternative name that didn't catch on. The other sources you found are all really old and back before the variant was popularized, or are just descriptions rather than titles. When I went looking - cursorily, I could be wrong! - I was only looking at recent sources, e.g. do a normal Google search, and they universally used "Fischer Random Chess" (Or Chess960). This variant has gotten more publicity in the past 5 years than from 1995-2015 combined, so it's definitely a check the age of the sources matter. SnowFire (talk) 06:39, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    This is likely another example of the unreasonable effectiveness of Wikipedia. We had it capped since 2002, so everyone who looked it up and wrote about it in recent years was likely influenced by that. I'd say it makes more sense to look to sources from before WP published the capped version. Dicklyon (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The Classified Encyclopaedia of Chess Variants (2nd ed.) is available online: PDF here. This capitalises fully (i.e. "Losing Chess). -LukeSurl t c 08:52, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems like the MOS isn't working for this case. I've started a discussion towards amending this here. --LukeSurl t c 14:25, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems to be working OK. I don't see a reason to think about making exceptions for games. For trademarked game names, we have
    MOS:TM which says to cap them; otherwise, not. Dicklyon (talk) 04:49, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
talk page or in a move review
. No further edits should be made to this section.

Case fixing help needed

The above RM was executed, but left lots of articles needing case fixes. I started working on them. More help would be welcome. Dicklyon (talk) 05:57, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dicklyon, just noticed this, apologies, I'm about halfway through the ones remaining. SITH (talk) 13:08, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
AWB may be of use as it has a built-in "what links here" option. Many thanks, SITH (talk) 13:28, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Thanks! I'm sure there will be a lot more tweaking needed, especially in links. But having the leads fixed will help move things in the right direction. Dicklyon (talk) 18:04, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also, articles like V. R. Parton are full of over-capitalization. And there are more chess variants still capped that were not listed in this RM discussion; and lots of capped alternative names. Are some of those trademarks, or proper names? Is anyone interested in trying to trying to compile a list of which ones should be capped, so I don't go overboard in fixing them? Dicklyon (talk) 21:40, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did a bunch of downcasing on V. R. Parton. It could use more eyes to see if I went too far or not far enough. Dicklyon (talk) 18:57, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And what's up with

Fischer Random Chess? Do we have to have the discussion over again, or can we fix it? Dicklyon (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Three-man_chess&oldid=1199688472"