User talk:Imalbornoz

Archives (index)

Archive 1 Archive 2

Hi! It's the first time I address to you in your talk page, so I thought that this could be in order. By the way, you may be interested in this suggestion. En fin, ¡Felices Fiestas! See you soon, Imalbornoz. --Cremallera (talk) 15:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This being the season of good will, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Justin talk 23:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I wish the same to you too, this being the season of good will. Let's hope that the new year finds all of us more peaceful and, above all, happier. --Imalbornoz (talk) 23:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hola Imalbornoz, espero que estas fechas sean, sobre todo, tranquilas y gratificantes para tí y para los tuyos. Yo ya estoy, como quien dice, en capilla, y supongo que en algún momento habrá un parón wikipédico. Seguimos en contacto. Un abrazo --Ecemaml (talk) 12:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC) PS: translation here[reply]

Edit warring takes 2, you've already had the proposal rejected, so if anyone is edit warring that would be you. Pointy edit summaries such as this one, give me no confidence whatsoever that you're mending your ways to work collaboratively. That is why you're still not welcome on my talk page. Justin talk 12:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To err once is perhaps a mistake, to repeat the same is pure carelessness. QED. Plainly you don't understand

WP:PEACOCK Justin talk 12:26, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

And a Happy New Year to you too!!!! Imalbornoz (talk) 12:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC) (I hope you can read this in my talk page, as your collaborative attitude does not seem to be compatible with allowing me -and a whole set of other editors- on your talk page) ;-) .[reply]

2 editors, who I've asked not to post after provocation. I see you continue in the same vein and you think thats helpful. Justin talk 13:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Peace & Love. --Imalbornoz (talk) 16:15, 12 January 2010 (UTC) PS: I hope my complaint for your forbidding some editors to post on your talk page did not disturb you too much: I only hoped to give you a chance to think about your own attitude. I will always accept you in my talk page (even if you troll my page with "DO NOT POST ON MY TALK PAGE!!!!!" repeated 40 times in a row, create an alert about me in the Wikiquette noticeboard saying -to no use- that I am canvassing[1], accuse me -to no use again- of meat-puppetry[2], create a RFC saying -to no use once more- that I am a disruptive and tendentious editor[3], revert me without even reading my edit[4] -to then self-revert 2 minutes later after you read it-, or accuse me -for the 37th time- of not assuming good faith - I should say that this small sample of not very friendly looking behaviours isn't very encouraging, is it?).[reply]

Troll? Perhaps a none too subtle hint that you were unwelcome. Since apparently you don't appreciate me self-reverting when I make a mistake, then I promise not to do so in future where your edits are involved. As to the rest, you did canvas, you have been tendentious, for example obsessively reverting even spelling mistakes; of itself a demonstration of a lack of good faith. I could go on and on but observe it seems pointless. Justin talk 16:42, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let me stress this very emphatically: I do appreciate your self-reverting when you make a mistake; on the other hand, I do not appreciate you reverting ME without previously reading me. I think this is quite a reasonable complaint, and easy to understand too. Why this happened is what I would like you to think about. Anyway, you have always been welcome in my talk page (even if you treat me with "none too subtle" -as you say- bad manners -that's something that I would also like you to think about). Look what a good faith assumer I am: I am explaining this to you with the hope that you will be able to see some room for improvement in your attitude and react accordingly. --Imalbornoz (talk) 17:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summaries reluctanly revert for the reasons stated in talk, rv self-revert. together with the comment in talk It was a good effort, my apologies for doubting you, I've self-reverted., the only reason for a reluctant revert was the mistaken impression it had increased the article in size, after mulling over what I though was a good effort. After realising my mistake I self-revert. You assume I hadn't read it and think its a reasonable complaint. Your presumptions are the reason for being unwelcome on my talk page. Good day, its been interesting. Justin talk 18:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

UNINDENT

Well, let's see:

• You complain about my presumptions because I assume you reverted without reading (as I saw a reversion and then a self-reversion 2 minutes later -not much time to think about the text if you had read it thoroughly first). Notice that I have not accused you of canvassing, sock and meat-puppetting, "disruptive and tendentious" edits, "nationalism"... On the other hand, notice that I have just accused you of reverting before reading (behold my mortal sin!!!) with quite reasonable evidence in open view to everyone.

• BUT you have NOTHING to regret after assuming I am (and openly accusing me of it) a sock-puppet, a meat-puppet, a canvasser, a disruptive editor, a tendentious editor,... (etcetera, etcetera et cetera and time after time after time after time...), banning me from your talk page, repeating 40 times (in capital letters) that ban in my talk page...

"Huy huy huy..." Maybe you should give things a second thought and reflect on whether you can be a better wikipedian... Maybe there would be more collaboration in the Gib articles if you (and Gibnews) had a more open attitude. Just look at Gibmetal and Ecemaml's collaboration, don't you envy it?. Humbly, about myself... even Narson thanked me for my effort! Regarding Red Hat of Pat Ferrick... don't you think that he could have contributed A LOT to Gib-related articles in quite a documented and NPOV fashion instead of "self-imposing" an exile from them due to your (and Gibnews') attacks? Notice that I have not opened one Wikiquette alert or RFC or anything on you or Gibnews... (can you say the same about yourself opening alerts on me, Ecemaml, RHOPF, Cremallera...?)

Come on!! This time of the year is a wonderful opportunity for making changes!!! --Imalbornoz (talk) 18:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Non, je ne regrette rien. I complain about nothing, merely make an observation. I don't think I've ever suggested you were a sock puppet, I also mentioned suspicions of meat puppetry I didn't accuse, you have canvasssed, you have been disruptive and you have edited tendentiously. So show me where I accused you of sock puppetry, you're usually so ready with a diff. As regards "nationalism", let me point out you made assumptions about my ethnic origins, your edits reflect a nationalist POV and don't think I've forgotten about your comments off-wiki.

Funnily enough RHoPF and I buried the hatchet long ago, yet when I suggested doing the same with Ecemaml the offer was unceremoniously flung back in my face. Time and again I gave you a second chance, only to find myself responding to a question to find a snide insinuation behind it. Instead of respecting my request not to post on my talk page, you still did so. You continue in the same vein by making something out of nothing, when I made a mistake and apologised for it. Now seeing as you insist that your presumptions are "reasonable" give me one good reason to think you've changed your ways. Justin talk 10:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Edith Piaf fan ;-),

You have suggested I was a sock puppet: here you have one clear example (notice it was just just in my 7th day of editing wikipedia!! talk about being careful not to

WP:BITE

newcomers!!). Did you forget it because you regret it? Or because there's such an overwhelming amount of people like me worthy of being accused that you just can't keep track of all your rightful attacks ;-) ?

I have NEVER made assumptions about your ethnic origins (look for the diff, and maybe you realise I've attacked you less than you think! That would be a useful exercise!!). BTW, I swear to God I am NOT a Spanish nationalist. It only ticks me off when I see a discussion or a document overwhelmingly derailed by a POV (be it political, nationalist or philosophical). Trust me: I am NOT a Spanish nationalist.

I am glad you buried your hatchet with RHOPF. But do you realise that, in the meanwhile, he seems to have been scared (or bored) away from Gib related articles? And that the many attacks he has received from you and Gibnews was -probably- one of the main causes?

I am not posting any of these personal reflections in any other page than my own, in order to keep it personal. My only goal here is to try to make you think and see if you need to "defuse" some aggressiveness in order to let the Gib discussions flow more easily (of course, if you think no improvement is needed, "allá tú"). I will try not to let any of this pour out into article talk pages, which I am sure we both agree should be only about content. Are you ready to make a commitment to avoid any personal reference in article talk pages, too? Hopefully and very sincerely, thank you. --Imalbornoz (talk) 11:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC) (PS: I have one more -good-intentioned- comment to make about the general situation in Gib related article discussions, but I have some work to do, I will share it with you later)[reply]

Which isn't a sock puppet accusation. You swear to god you're not a Spanish nationalist but your first mission on wikipedia was to expunge ANY reference to self-government in Gibraltar. Ponder for a second the impression that leaves.

I also haven't attacked RHoPF and you might care to ponder why I can edit quite happily in my main area of expertise, the Falklands, without any rancour from the Argentine editors who also frequent those articles. Whilst we may have disagreements we can usually work through them.

Defuse some aggressiveness? I'm not by nature, the instigator of conflict but don't respond well to being provoked - something Narson has observed is that I'm too easily wound up. Not to make any comment on nationalist lines but to observe the confrontational way certain editors have approached Gibraltar topics is counter productive.

If you want to bury the hatchet and draw a line under past conflicts, then fine, happy to do so. But given I've done that several times already forgive me if I'm wary. Justin talk 12:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add, ponder for a little while, the first comment about pointy edit summaries, accusations of edit warring etc. Ponder also the comment that your proposed edit was already disputed, yet you made it again. Justin talk 12:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And anoter one to ponder "seeing as you insist that your presumptions are "reasonable" give me one good reason to think you've changed your ways.", I note you neglected to provide an answer. Justin talk 14:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Gibraltar#RfC:_Self-government Guy (Help!) 11:54, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You should not alter an RFC after filing, except to correct an obvious error as I did. Even then it is customary to use strikethrough and add a note explaining. It is inappropriate to extensively modify an RFC, or to add your own opinion. Justin talk 18:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I never thought of modifying a RfC (didn't even think anyone could modify it) until you showed the way. It's very funny that you say that I shouldn't modify it!!! (looks like a case of: "do as a say not as I do"...).

In fact, you are striking thru my comment on a modification by you on a RfC!!!!!! And you strike thru it because it's "wrong" to modify a RfC. You are a "cachondo mental"!!!!! (I hope that thanks to your half-Spanish heritage you won't have problems to realise this is not an offensive term).

Look, Justin, you have never listened to me when I have explained why you should or should not do something, so I won't waste our time. Please just don't strike through any of my comments any more. I expect the same respect from you as you have obtained from me when you asked me not to post on your talk page (I have only done it once, and that was because I couldn't even communicate with you in the article talk page because you kept deleting my comments).

Thank you for your respect in advance. -- Imalbornoz (talk) 18:28, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Imalbornoz, please do not edit or refactor other editors' comments on a talk page. Per

WP:TPO, such edits are allowed only in a very limited number of circumstances. Even correcting another editors' typos is not allowed. This is a potentially blockable offense, so please understand how serious this is. An RfC is just like any other talk page comment, representing the view of a particular editor and signed by that editor. Changing the RfC is literally changing another editor's words, and that is expressly forbidden. I've left the same message for Justin on my talk page. If you have any response to the RfC or any corrections you feel need to be made, either do so in your comments to the RfC or talk with Guy directly to ask him to fix his post or ask for permission to make changes. You may not have realized what you've done, but consider this an informal warning. Thank you. -- Atama頭 17:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

I bare my buttocks in your general direction. Justin talk 12:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I really hope you are happier now (but I doubt it). I see you aren't apologising for your insults. Pity: it seems you haven't learnt anything during these months (since you gave that warm welcome at the top of this page to me as a newcomer). If you come back (which you probably will), I'll be wholeheartedly expecting a new Justin without strange prejudices in his eyes and a new eagerness to accept contributions from anybody (from me, for example) without automatically rejecting them and saying they are "flogging a dead horse"(sic) or advancing a "fascist racist agenda". I wish you the best. -- Imalbornoz (talk) 13:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You have an agenda and wikipedia is the platform you chose to use; it isn't about writing an encyclopedia. I will never apologise for saying that, because you and I both know its true. I regret some of the things said in the heat of the moment that is all. My intention is to quit, if you wish to follow Red Hat's agenda of making it a block you go right ahead. I bare my buttocks in both of your general directions. Justin talk 15:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking that we should raise a case on Justin's comments towards you and other Spanish editors. I've been very impressed by your tempered and mature responses towards him and you have been overly generous in not doing anything. I believe, despite what he says, he is not going to quit Wikipedia (which is fine and up to him), and so if anything constructive is to be achieved at the Gib page he needs to seriously chill out and dispense with the Franco stuff. Noone would get away with likening fellow German editors to Nazis. His response towards this Gibnews business, even though it doesn't involve him, seems to have enraged him even more. Perhaps an enforced block would give him the time off to contemplate. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 13:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually let's first give him the opprtunity to reply here re your msg on Atama's page. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 13:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree that NPA was broken, but Justin is voluntarily taking a long (maybe indefinite) Wikibreak. It seems like a moot point to put down any sort of block. Considering that Justin's block log is clear except for one short block for edit-warring more than 2 years ago, I don't think that more than a temporary block would be justified. A voluntary break has the same preventative effect as a temporary block, so there's not much that needs to be done. If Justin returns, and starts with the same behavior as before, then that would be a different story and sanctions might be warranted. But for now the situation seems to have taken care of itself. -- Atama頭 17:01, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Given his self-imposed exile, temporary or otherwise, I would agree with that. Hopefully the time off will help him realise it's only Wikipedia and life is too short to get so angry about it. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 23:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I join in praise of Imalbornoz for his self-restraint, and of course his hard work collecting references and so on. I too hope that if Justin returns, he omits personal attacks. Also, thanks for the mention of Bryan Ward Perkin's book; I've now read it and it does indeed support an interesting hypothesis (with which I tend to agree; I'm fairly sure that my personal barbarian ancestors were difficult neighbours at best). Richard Keatinge (talk) 11:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring, to restore your favoured version, how unsurprising of you. I note that the arguments against inclusion remain unaddressed. I see. Justin talk 17:26, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and don't be a patronising ass with comments, like Justin, Justin. Justin talk 18:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Justin, "patronizing ass" is not a phrase that really helps to build a good encyclopedia. Richard Keatinge (talk) 18:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neither is being a patronising ass but I don't see you commenting about that. Justin talk 18:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a little from all three, Imalbornoz. If including it will incite edit wars and there are alternatives we can all live with for the moment, I would favour that. There are also issues with how it was first imposed, as I said before when it first occured, I have no great problem with the mention (as I thought that would be the end of things,it turns out that wasn't the end of things. People then chose to argue over specific words within that and silliness) but I was never happy about how it was imposed, with it being forced in rather than agreed and put in. It was unnecessary and,regardless of opinions, it almost cost us a good editor in the form of Justin. There are also issues over relevence I still feel (and yes, I am aware that many Gib history books might mention it, but we are dealing with a general article.) --Narson ~ Talk • 18:45, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Imalbornoz, thank you for "proxying" my vote to the Gibraltar talk page. I'm sorry, however, as it seems that such a good faith action could have been used to argue a "co-ordination of activities by email". Anyway, thank you. Not only for your edition, but especially for your message about my paternity in my talk page of the Spanish Wikipedia. Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 12:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

		The Resilient Barnstar
		I feel I need to thank you your efforts Ecemaml (talk) 12:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Gibraltar and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide
  .

Thanks, EyeSerene^talk 13:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. The case hasn't been rejected yet; one of the 12 active arbitrators, Roger Davies, has recused (which simply means he is not available for this case) and Newyorkbrad has asked for more information before he makes up his mind. The other arbitrators haven't commented yet, so adding your statement (if you want to, no pressure!) will be helpful to Newyorkbrad and the others in deciding what to do. EyeSerene^talk 19:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Imalbornoz. Your statement at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case is over 700 words long. The word limit is 500. Please fix this within the next 24 hours or it will be refactored by a clerk. Regards, Ryan Postlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 17:21, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gibraltar/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gibraltar/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory (u • t • c) 16:55, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Imalbornoz, do you think the Arbitration case deserves so much work from your side? I think that the ArbCom has made a decision. We may like it or not (I don't like the remedies proposed for me) but I think it's pointless to go on such a discusion. It Justin and his friends do not like the findinds and decisions it's up to them but at this point it does not seem possible to make them see that there is maybe a problem with Justin's behaviour. Full stop. My advice here is, as I've told Justin, back to work. Editing in wikipedia is joyful, I promise. And Wikipedia is definitely not a battleground, even if not all of us play by the rules. Please, simply ignore Justin&friends' comments. I guess it's worse to "entrar al trapo". On the other hand, I'll be off until we have a decision (if the decision is to topic ban me, I'll be off for three aditional months... but ask me for sources if you needed... i have plenty of them). Best regards and take care of yourself --Ecemaml (talk) 15:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Imal, first of all I'd suggest just leaving him be. I have spoken for you many a time and I know you mean well, but if you keep explaining things to someone it can come across as a lecture or demeaning, which I know you do not mean, but it can seem like a niggle at pride. On the rest, I don't think you need to worry. My frustration is more with ArbCom than with any party in the case (It is not RedHat's fault if he thinks he was right when ArbCom give him that impression, though seemingly unintended), and it is just that, frustration. I believe they have made a mistake but it is not something I can change. The 3RR report was a bloody stupid thing to do mind, but I am sure Justin will calm over that. You just have to understand where Justin is in his real life right now, he is suceptible to feeling under attack and if you look through that filter, I think you will understand his reactions. The same way I shift myself around to realise why you might have done something that seemed silly, if I try to look through your eyes I can better understand the intention behind the act. --Narson ~ Talk • 22:20, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey imalbornoz - I suggest you resist the urge to reply any further on that page. There's been plenty of sensationalist hyperbole I wanted to reply to but I came to the realization that it achieves nothing by doing so - the arbitrators don't hang on every word and and all it does is wind up those who are unhappy with the decisions. I would say the best thing we can all do is wait for the final verdict, then avoid direct interaction with particular parties where there is friction, other than discussing article content. If in discussing article content anyone is foolish to be uncivil or assumes bad faith etc etc, I'm sure a lengthy block will be forthcoming pretty swiftly. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 22:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following is a summary of the remedies enacted:

• Any uninvolved administrator may, in his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor editing Gibraltar or other articles concerning the history, people, or political status of Gibraltar if, after a warning, that editor repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioral standards or editorial processes of Wikipedia in connection with these articles.
• the Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard
  ) or the Arbitration Committee.
• Gibnews (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from editing the Gibraltar article and other articles concerning the history, people, and political status of Gibraltar, broadly construed, for one year. Should Gibnews return to editing relating to Gibraltar following this period, he is reminded to edit in accordance with the principles discussed in this decision and will be subject to the discretionary sanctions remedy should he fail to do so.
• Gibnews is strongly warned that nationally or ethnically offensive comments are prohibited on Wikipedia and that substantial sanctions, up to a ban from the site, will be imposed without further warning in the event of further violations.
• Justin A Kuntz (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from editing Gibraltar and other articles concerning the history, people, and political status of Gibraltar, broadly construed, for three months. Should Justin A Kuntz return to editing relating to Gibraltar following this period, he is reminded to edit in accordance with the principles discussed in this decision and will be subject to the discretionary sanctions remedy should he fail to do so.
• Ecemaml (talk · contribs) is admonished for having, at times, assumed bad faith and edited tendentiously concerning the history and political status of Gibraltar.
• Editors are reminded that when editing in subject areas of bitter and long-standing real-world conflict, it is all the more important to comply with Wikipedia policies such as
  dispute resolution
  where necessary.
• Any editor who is closely associated with a particular source or website relating to the subject of Gibraltar or any other article is reminded to avoid editing that could be seen as an actual or apparent attempt to promote that source or website or to give it undue weight over other sources or website in an article's references or links. To avoid even the appearance of impropriety, it may be best in these circumstances to mention the existence of the source or website on the talkpage, and allow the decision whether to include it in the article to made by others.

For the Arbitration Committee, ---- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 23:16, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Imalbornoz, sorry for not spending much time in the Gibraltar article (you know, I find it more interesting to write than simply discussing :-)). With regard to copyrights, it's always tricky to know exactly when a work enters into the public domain. According to the Spanish law applicable at the time, a works enter into the public domain 80 years after the death of its author. It's likely that the works you point at fall under such a category. However, it's even more likely that the paper or a news agency owns the copyright of the photos. In that case, we're talking about 80 years from publication. Therefore, you can assume they're in the public domain (even in the case they're not in the public domain, you could use the first one here under a fair use claim). However, I'd suggest you to upload it to commons. Hope it helps. See you --Ecemaml (talk) 22:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriate license would be {{

PD-old}} but if you wish, I can upload the image. Just let me know --Ecemaml (talk) 09:13, 26 May 2010 (UTC) PD: when the article goes eventually live, please let it me know, just to make it a DYK article (or you can do it by yourself if you want to)[reply

]

You've misses the source of all of them. They might be deleted if no proper source is provided. Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You see, I was the creator of the Fidel Pagés article in the Spanish wikipedia. So long ago that I didn't remember it ;-) --Ecemaml (talk) 15:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The idea is to provide both information about the origin of the picture and about the place you've actually taken the picture. It helps to assert the copyright-free claim. Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 16:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've done some minor changes to the article. Would you mind if I propose it as a DYK article? --Ecemaml (talk) 22:16, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply