User talk:Irpen/archive1

Hi, Irpen! Thanks much for creating the article on Admiral Makarov. I was going to do it for, well, almost a year now, but never got to it. Hopefully we'll develop it into something more than a stub it currently is. Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:03, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

One of the remarks I wanted to make is in regards to the transliteration of "Великий князь". As you undoubtedly know, there are millions of ways to transliterate any given Russian word. What you may not be aware of, is that we are trying to make sure that all Russian words used in Wikipedia conform to the same transliteration standard, which is described

. I am not saying this is the "final final" version everybody must stick to (and indeed, there is a discussion going on on its talk page trying to work out some details), nor I am saying that this is the only correct version in the whole world. It is, however, only logical to at least try using one transliteration system across all of Wikipedia to maintain consistency.

As per the articles guidelines, "великий князь" would be transliterated as "veliky knyaz" (see also knyaz).

Let me know if you have questions, and I am looking forward to working with you in future!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:03, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments. I don't remember much more about Admiral Makarov than what I wrote in the stub. I agree with the need of consistency in transliteration. I think, however, that when some Russian term is already established in English, the established transliteration should take precedence of the letter by letter rule. My impression (not confirmed though a thorough search though) is that Kniaz iz a more common English usage of the Russian word Князь. However, the google counts for kniaz and knyaz are close enough, so my impression is rather subjective. Also, the article you refered me to gives two choices for transliteration of Великий as both Velikiy or Veliky. The former term seems better to me, but again this is rather subjective. What do you think? I would be happy to abide with a consensus decision in the future. Regards, Irpen 21:31, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I can't force you use one convention over another, especially in cases which are so borderline, although consistency is something I am really trying to maintain (some would even say "at all costs" , although I tend to disagree:)). As far as google goes, it is fairly accurate at identifying "most common usage", and for cases like this one, I myself prefer the variant that conforms to the transliteration standards already in use in Wikipedia (which in this case is "knyaz").

Anyway, you can always voice your opinion at the Talk:Transliteration of Russian into English page to see what kind of responses you'll get, although you'll probably have to read through the whole discussion thread first (which, for one thing, is not short) to not miss anything. This is especially true in regards to using "-iy" or "-y" for "-ий". For some reason, "-y" for "-ый" was easily accepted by almost everyone, but there are still some lingering doubts about using "-y" for "-ий" (I, as you might have guessed, prefer "-y" for just the same old reason—consistency).

Take care!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:47, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Ezhiki, I did a little searching myself on this issue. I found that I was wrong and the usage of knyaz prevails over kniaz in English media. I used LexisNexis search of all major English language media over last 24 months. So, I will use knyaz from now on and will correct kniaz for knyaz on pages I will be editing (only if I will have other reasons to edit a page, won't do it only to change i for y). I still think that -iy should be used rather than -y in velikiy becuase it is better to reflect the difference between phonetic pronunciation of the ending in, say, krasny and velikiy. Thanks for bringing this matter to my attention. Irpen 18:44, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Irpen! Thanks for taking time to check on this. I vaguely remember that someone did a similar check in the past (I don't remember the details, though), and that's how we started to use "ya", "yo", "yu" over "ia", "io", "iu" in the first place. Anyway, I appreciate your effort.

As for your user talk page history, alas, not even admins can alter that (I assume that's because it would have been all too easy for rogue admins to abuse this process, and it would be a great temptation to skew the history to one's favor). Whatever shows up in the history, stays there. Most of the good-natured Wikipedians take pride in their user pages being vandalized—it usually means that one either is an active vandal-fighter, or someone who sticks to NPOV in very heated debates.

Thanks again for your time and comments. Feel free to drop me a message/wikimail any time you want to discuss anything.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 19:25, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure! I think some way should exist to remove at least the vulgar, foul language or pornographic graffiti from the history (I don't mean to remove messages from short-tempered wikifolks who are not always polite in expressing their disagreement with edits). Well, let it stay for now :). Personally, I don't find such images, even when rather disgusting, to be disturbing. Cheers, Irpen 19:55, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Irpen. I dropped by to tell you that I disagree with one of your edits fiercely. FC Arsenal Kyiv is a contemporary club of independent Ukraine. Not to mention that it is free to name itself however they decide. Thus, you've gone too far in your Kiev edits. Don't cross the line of fighting Ukrainian language. So far, I've been tolerating and sometimes supporting your edits regarding you a cooperative discussing Wikifellow. It would be unpleasant changing my opinion on you. Best wishes, AlexPU

Replied at User_talk:AlexPU#Arsenal. Irpen 22:42, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

I don't know how the text doublicated. I had some "wikipedia is busy" message and reloaded. thanks for informing me and for reverting. I put the link again. Ben (talk) 15:44, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I don't know much enough on this subject to make any kind of decision either! I will, however, try to do some research on this when/if I have time. Sorry for not being of much help for now.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 18:36, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Village_pump Multiple_stub_notices 4.250.168.188 13:44, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi Irpen - I note that you've added a couple of new stub categories. While I think they will probably be useful, can I suggest that if you intend to add any more you check out Wikipedia: WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria first? Quite a thorough debating process goes on before the creation of stub categories, to ensure that they fit in with current criteria. I suspect also that most stub sorters and editors wouldn't be able to tell which Russian history items were more correctly expressed as East Slavic history or vice versa (and stubs categories are primarily for the benefit of editors). what's more, the templates aren't correctly formed (they shouldn't remain in Category:Historical stubs if they are also in one of its subcategories). Grutness|^hello? 02:42, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The proposal to create these stubs was up for comments at

03:24, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like you went through procedures well, and as I said, the stub categories are almost certainly worthwhile. In future, though, it would be good if you also check with the stub sorters, since they are the ones who will be assigning most articles to those categories and it would be good if they knew what was going on! :) By the way, given your description of the two new categories, should Category: Russian history stubs be a subcategory of Category:East Slavic history stubs? Grutness|^hello? 03:43, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sure, should there be next time, I would also post a note at stub sorting page. As for your question about subcategory, I am not sure what would be best. I would be weakly in favor of not having one as a subcategory of the other but I would check with other editors for their opinion on that. Thanks, Irpen 04:13, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)

I've added a comment about your new stubs at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Criteria#Newly-discovered_stub_categories - feel free to add to or correct any of my comments! Grutness|^hello?

You wrote: Sorry, I had to undo some of your changes because some articles you placed into East-Slavic-History-stub category should not be there, I think. BTW, what would you say about WWI and WWII history stubs?

Fair enough - I called them as I saw them, but you clearly know more about the subject than I do. Feel free to do the same again with any others I get wrong. As for WWI and II stubs, they may be a good idea - there seem to be quite a lot of them. Personally I'd prefer to wait until the hostory category is purged of a lot of the bio-stubs that shouldn't be in there, see what is left after that. They'd be worth suggesting on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria, though. Grutness|^hello? 02:17, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I am sure that there will be enough WWI and WWII related stubs after any purge of hist-stub category. Many articles there would perfectly fit into the WW category... Anyway, it's your call, guys, to decide. I just wanted to bring this up for consideration. Irpen 07:26, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

Probably better to do that on the Stub sorting/Criteria page than on my user talk page, though! Personally, I think a WWII-stub is a great idea. Grutness|^hello?

You wrote: Sure, this can wait if you think it'd better to. As for mil-war-stub, I was thinking that there was a difference between articles that would best fit into mil-stub and those best tagged with mil-war-stub. But maybe it's better to stick with mil-stub. Anyway, I will wait if necessary, and once WW stubs are created, I will help in moving there some articles from other categories.

Hopefully I'll have completed the current pass of hist-stub by about Wednesday or Thursday - should have more of an idea what is needed by then. I have a couple of other things listed on the stub sorting page that I want to make a start on, but there's no reason not to deal with the WW stubs at about the same time. In any case we should probably leave the suggestions up on WP:WSS for about seven days before doing anything with it anyway. But I don't see anyone objecting to WWII-stub and WWI-stub as a good starting point, especially if there are items in mil-stub that would be better there. And any help in moving things over will be much appreciated! Grutness|^hello? 06:39, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi again Irpen - I've just created {{WWII-stub}}, and with any luck I'll add {{WWI-stub}} later today. Grutness|^hello? 00:04, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It may have been my fault of not explaining this properly. East Slavs are only Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians. Poles and Lithuanians are not East Slavs. Poland and Lithuania related articles may get the east-slavic-history-stub note only when the article is primarily about the events related to the three East-Slavic nations territories of the time when Poland and Lithuania dominated them.

Ah sorry - misunderstood. I'll try to remember in future! Grutness|^hello? 00:14, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why are you accusing me of bad faith? I am perfectly willing to discuss whatever you like, wherever you like, so long as you are polite. And I havn't commited any sort of copyright vio! I found that accusation quite disturbing. Sam Spade 23:46, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Replied at User talk:Sam Spade/ - archive/Mai 2005 2#bad faith?

Irpen you are too high in the sky - You are not the cleverest man on Earth (unsigned by anon user)

Indeed, I am not. And I hope you will do some really good edits or improve my past edits, so that reading your articles will make me more clever. Irpen 14:53, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Oh come on, I don't mind at all! As long as we keep civil discussion it's all right with me. Halibutt 21:46, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words. I do admit that WikiPortals are new to me, and I hope this works out. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:01, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I just think that if I keep on updating it and make it very responsive to the users, it will work out great. Plus, you can discuss any changes you want to be done at the portal talk page. Though, I wish to ask you to do something for me. I ask for you to help administer the portal with me. I will be moving in a few weeks, so I wish for someone to watch over it while I am gone. If you wish to do that, just let me know. Thanks in advance. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I will do what I can but I will be loaded up at work during the next weeks. So, I will only have a limited amount of time. However, within my available time, I will try. I will definetely be able to revert vandalism and if I am off the WP for a day or two, I am sure it's already on enough people's watchlists so that vandalism won't stay long. So, thanks again and I will try, Cheers, Irpen 05:10, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch. I will try to pop in every so often, to make let folks know that I am ok. Plus, if you want to change the news, featured article/pictures, did you know, go right ahead. Anyone can change those too. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:21, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Offhand, I don't think your suggested merge of

01:23, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jmabel. I responded at

Talk:Rus' (people)#Merge?. -Irpen

01:36, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Kijów in

Kiev

article

Kijów Voivodship, Poland for 200 years, so what is your problem?--Witkacy

18:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)"

Replied at Talk:Kiev#Kijów_in_Kiev_article -Irpen 18:59, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Delete the unnecessary Russian name and none of my homies will bother you no more.Space Cadet 03:30, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stop the exadge! As if mentioning Kijów brought an actual "havoc" to anything! Shyaa...riiight! Logically if Danzig belongs in the Gdansk article, then Kijów belongs in Kiev! Unless you agree with the Britannica convention: current English name throughout, native name bolded in the first sentence, nothing else, unless in the "history" section. In the above case, however, help in getting rid of German names from Gdansk, Szczecin and Wroclaw articles. Your support of logic and common sense will be appreciated. Sincerely, Space Cadet 04:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dear Irpen, I'm not on any campaign per se, except of course the "campaign for logic, consistency and justice for all". Your "sobriety" remark was very rude. Your consistent ignoring of my point, only a little annoying. Tell me what you think about the way Britannica handles those issues. Space Cadet 04:40, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The advise above was a quote from the WP guidelines WP:Point directly applicable here, and of course I have no reason to think that you were literally not sober. It was part of the phrase: "Think through your edits for a while..." Read the whole thing again if you please.

I am not ignoring your point? I am trying to convince you to express it clearly at the talk:Kiev page. I have no opinion on Britannica's policy. I would like to stick to the issue at hand which is: (1) should the Kiev article have a RU name in the first line, and (2) should it have the PL name there, or is the RU name alone a sufficient reason for a PL name, or whether the German/Polish naming dispute somehow affects how the Kiev article should look like. If you have anything to say about those issues, please use the talk:Kiev page. Several people, including user:Witkacy, wrote there. You choose to ignore the talk page and simply revert. The justification you give, your quote: "if Danzig belongs in the Gdansk article, then Kijów belongs in Kiev!" and "Delete the unnecessary Russian name and none of my homies will bother you" clearly shows that this is a WP:Point issue. If making a point re the Russian name and an unrelated Gdansk issues is only part of your reasons, please state the rest of at the talk page in response to what's already said there. I am only calling on you reverting your editing yourself if you are motivated solely by WP:Point-like reasons. I have no problem to discuss the issue itself. I hope you will agree to stop this revert war. If you please help improving the Polish section of Kiev history I would really appreciate that. -Irpen 06:30, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I guess I wasn't sober, yesterday.Space Cadet 09:52, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to all for stopping this reversion cycle. Since

Kiev article to make a point. Understandably, I was unhappy about it (I desperately want this to become a better article than it is) but I understand the "consistency and justice for all" logic. Since the intent of the effort was transparently given, I never saw this as foul play and I was simply requesting a cleanup. I was already unhappy about myself reverting the article more than once in a single day (and this was NOT vandalism which I revert comfortably). Approaching or not the 3RR limit I simply didn't want to continue this myself. Therefore I requested a self-reversion from the other side, but another user just went ahead and reverted even sooner. In any case, if we can get together and improve the city article I would be eager to give to it whatever time I have. Cheers, -Irpen

02:15, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

I think we should first fix the voting (survey) policy itself, otherwise, any new vote will suffer the same fate as Gdansk/Vote - i.e. resolve little. See Template_talk:Gdansk-Vote-Notice#Constructive_proposal for my proposal and arguments. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 10:29, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Garrison school, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently-created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

So that the Gdansk/Vote horror never repeats itself :) Please see the proposal at

20:10, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the comments, I tried to incorporate them into the final version. See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Fixing_giant_loopholes_in_Wikipedia:Survey_guidelines. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 19:35, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I see nothing disputed in this page. --Vasile 04:55, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) I am not able to see what are the the statements and ideas really DISPUTED in the article. It's just a pretention of POV. --Vasile 13:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You definetely know nothing about the subject as you pretend. You just want make this article to disappear, disturbing and harassing anyone wants to edit this article. You don't respect the wikipedia rules and you should report yourself to the wikipedia staff. --Vasile 18:31, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Replied at

Talk:Transnistria/archive_1#Response_from_the_"Challenger_of_neutrality". --Irpen

Take your Stalinist propaganda elsewhere

Stop the propaganda. It ain't working! Obviously there are tons of people that disagree with you. The smartest way would have been to provide some proof along with your complaints but you did not do that.

So I will politely ask you to either adress the subject of Transnistria in a mature manner or stop herassing the discussion page. Duca

Replied at

Talk:Transnistria/archive_1#Response. --Irpen

Re: my page

Thanks for the help! - Kazak 23:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hello! I think we need the new inobox for Ukrainian Oblasts. I inserted flag and CoA of Zhytomyr Oblast, but without an infobox it seems...

If you want - create this infobox, please- then I will try to find more flags and CoAs.

Secundo: Could you check English names for the raions in Zhytomyr Oblast. Cheers! Vuvar1 18:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Irpen! I just thought you might be interested to comment on what's going with the article on Igor of Kiev. You may want to checkUser_talk:Dbachmann as well. --Ghirlandajo 19:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It is hard for me to contibute anything useful to this discussion between editors who know much more on the topic than I do. However, what's wrong with Slavic name of Constantinople (Tsargrad) mentioned in this particular article. No one is talking about inserting it to every article. However, if there is a context to mention it in WP, there is nothing closer to it than this article. I don't understand why it was completely removed. Having it mentioned as a second name (with Constantinople as the first one) would still be OK, I think. Completely removing it from the middle of the article seems to me unwarranted. Any objections to restore it? -Irpen 03:33, Jun 27, 2005 (UTC)

Well, using the Slavic name would imply that the attackers used that name for Constantinople, which would be misleading. We know which language these Rus spoke because, after these attacks, in

Dniepr

cataracts in both Rus and in Slavic. The Rus names:

• Essoupi (Old Norse vesuppi, "do not sleep")
• Oulvorsi (Old Norse holmfors, "island rapid")
• Gelandri (Old Norse gjallandi, "yelling, loudly ringing")
• Aeifor (Old Norse eiforr, "ever fierce")
• Varouforos (Old Norse varufors, "cliff rapid" or barufors, "wave rapid")
• Leanti (Old Norse leandi, "seething", or hlaejandi, "laughing")
• Stroukoun (Old Norse strukum, "rapid current").

Since we consequently know what language the Rus spoke in 950 and these attacks were before that date, the Slavic name for Constantinople would be misleading. It would be more appropriate to state that it was called Miklagard by the Rus. However, I do think that Tzargrad is relevant as a line in the article on Constantinople.Wiglaf 28 June 2005 05:42 (UTC)

When reverting anons, like you did in Crimea, please look into their contributions. From my experience a 69% of vandals are not satisfied with a single page. mikka (t) 29 June 2005 22:05 (UTC)

Why do you choose to associate anons with vandals? 81.213.0.98 30 June 2005 15:35 (UTC)

There is a very good correlation but you are right: non all vandals are anons and not all anons are vandals. Particularly, I didn't see your edits as vandalism. I reverted them because they seemed to me like pushing of a particular out-of-mainstream POV into several articles. When I revert vandalism, I usually simply say in the edit summary "rv vandal". Reverting your edit, I elaborated clearly the reasons either at the edit summary or at the talk pages. If you disagree, please make your point at article's talk pages. Also, there is nothing that prevents you from persisting with your versions in the articles themselves. But still, pls use talk pages. Most wikipedians, myself included, are open to discussions. -Irpen June 30, 2005 17:45 (UTC)

Hmmm, except for this edit, all his other contributions seem quite strange to me. Not that they were nonsensical, but they're simply badly worded and use the Polish names not in the historical context (as it is accepted) but in modern context (which hardly makes any sense). I see no reason not to revert - or at least reword his entries. Halibutt July 1, 2005 10:31 (UTC)

That was my impression too. Thanks! Will take care of it. -Irpen July 1, 2005 15:39 (UTC)

Hi! First let me say that I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the subject of this article, so I will not get involved in discussions on the content of the article. That said, when I saw the request for protection I felt that the parties involved here might benefit from me, as an outsider, monitoring the debate and intervening if necessary. My take on the situation at the moment is that there appears to be useful (if not always civil) discussion going on on the talk page for this article, and that the edit war on the article itself is not out of control. So I have chosen to take a low-key approach—making sure that editors are aware of, and stick to the the three revert rule, but not (yet) procecting the article. Protection at this point might cause a further hardening of positions rather than fostering compromise, however, if within the next day or so it looks like this strategy is not working I will protect the article (if no one else has done so before me). JeremyA 5 July 2005 04:37 (UTC)

I agree with you, the situation seems to have changed during the last 12 hours or so. The discussion at the talk is no doubt useful and civility can and should be handled by RfC rather than protection if gets out of control. I requested the admin action only due to persistent removal of the POV tag. If it is kept intact, the process may be resolved in a regular way. I will get back with my request of protection only if the practice of the tag removal returns to the article. Thanks for your participation. --Irpen July 5, 2005 04:49 (UTC)

I like it! One question: you mentioned boards on my talk page... where are they? mno

Just look at several windows at the portal. In one window at the right-hand side you will see "new article announcement board" and "Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board". Also, use Portal's own talk page to discuss portal itself. Add all these to your watchlist. Feel free to update any window and, especially, current news. Finally, don't be afraid to screw up. Anything can be easily reverted by you or anyone else. Regards, --Irpen July 7, 2005 05:33 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:Wikiportal/Ukraine re double edit. Sashazlv 7 July 2005 06:46 (UTC)

Your only contribution in "dispute" is restoring tags. Please stop these obstructing manoeuvres, read more wiki-regulations and try something new. --Vasile 11:46, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(moved to

]

Ukrainian Copyright

I was wondering if I would have no problems using photos from the website of the Ukrainian President and Ministry of Defense for my article on Hero of Ukraine? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:55, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I will let you know if I can find anything out for sure, but I bet it's pretty safe under fairuse anyway. Don't you think? --Irpen 21:04, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I was more thinking of Public Domain. I want to get the article

Featured, but people are now getting upset over the use of Fair Use images being used on these type articles. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:12, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply

]

I just answered your question at Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/Ukraine-related_Wikipedia_notice_board#Ukrainian_copyright_law.27s_very_important_excemption. Thanks for raising the issue. I am sure it would be good to know for others too. Cheers, -Irpen 00:53, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Your quite welcome. Also, please see my response at Talk:Hero of Ukraine. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:08, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the images to the Commons. I also know you asked about if I got many Wiki-national awards: I got two. I got a Barnstar of National Merit for Belarus and for Russia. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:48, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think I read this in Jasienica, with colorful descriptions of buildings full of severed heads awaiting Mazepa and such. I can find the book and check it if you want. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 22:59, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You probably read about the massacre of Baturyn. This is already describied in its article. If I am mistaken, feel free to restore of course. --Irpen 23:33, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

regarding the names of tsarinas of Russia: if from abroad, they changed their first name, such as Wilhelmina became Natalia Alexeievna, etc. Now, Wikipedia has certain rules that the so-called consort name is not to be used, because of several persons being e.g Empress Maria Fedorovna. And that a pre-marital name should be used. But I feel that it is acceptable to make a formulation "Natalia Alexeievna of Darmstadt" (the "of Darmstadt" being for disambiguation purposes) instead of using "Wilhelmina of Darmstadt". Now, as there are plenty of Germanist and anglicist opinions, I would like to know some of international opinion as well as of Russian opinion. In other words, I am asking you to think whether from the perspective a Russian, (1) would it be acceptable to say "Natalia Alexeievna of Darmstadt" and (2) would that be better or worse than "Wilhelmina of Darmstadt". 62.78.105.68 08:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned on the talk page for Alexandra, I'm trying to get a policy discussion going on this; there are several other options besides the ones suggested above. Please consider visiting this talk page and endorsing one of the options, or adding one of your own. Thanks! Choess 01:05, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

I tried to find article about

(wife of Nicholas II, not of Nicholas I) in the Russian wikipedia, but I did not find such article. Could you check whether any such exists? If yes or no, it would anyway be nice to have the English article to have interwiki link to her Russian aricle (please create such article if it does not yet exist in russian wp). 217.140.193.123 19:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly did he and Kuchma do to "devaluate" the Hero of Ukraine titles? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 07:53, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mainly, by giving the titles to non-worthy (by public perception) people as a payoff for their favors. I will try to find something specific and will let you know. -Irpen 08:30, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I am trying to make a fork article/list with everyone who was presented with the title, regardless of they got the Gold Star or State order. I also noticed you presented someone on here with the Hero of Ukraine medal. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:07, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I used it as a Barnstar. Would that qualify for the place in the

List of heroes of Ukraine? :). Cheers, --Irpen

01:17, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

I wish. Also, I am not sure if I told you, but I received only two Wiki-national awards: one for Russia and Belarus. I am not sure how many names we can add to the list, but I want to do some more searching. But, I still need to fix some sections in the article before I send this to

WP:FAC. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:20, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply

]

I added your information into the article. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Another topic, I think I figured out what some of the Law passed in 2002 by Kuchma [1] is saying (I should add uk-1 to my babel template). The last three things talk about the design of the decorations. The miniature medal, comparing the other decorations I worked on, is most likely the wearer's copy I mentioned about. And the decorations have not changed at all in design or composition. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Even though I do not have much time to work on the article right now, I will happily translate whatever you need. The simple translation from ru/ua languages for another user (not to be placed directly into the article) that I do not have polish don't take much time at all. Just ask and send links. --Irpen 05:38, July 26, 2005 (UTC) P.S. I think we are not yet close to the stage to submit the article for featured candidates, but we'll get there. Thanks again for your enthusiazm to RU/UA topics. Cheers,--Irpen 05:38, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Trust me, we should be fine. Hero of Belarus made it that far, and it is FAC. Pretty much, I just need this site [2] translated. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 08:11, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Also, your quite welcome and check your inbox. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:01, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Irpen, I thought you might be interested to know that I've just started an article about

]

Thanks! Unfortunately my knowledge about this is next to nothing but I will follow the development. I also posted an anouncement at Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/New article announcements. Thanks~ --Irpen 20:36, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Great! I couldn't find a proper Ukrainian board. If you came upon any official statements of your government about the action, it would be good to add them to the article. --SylwiaS 00:03, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Did just that. --Irpen 07:48, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

I got the drawing of the medal that you wanted. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:53, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot! I will get to translating the page you requested asap. Regards, --Irpen 01:09, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Your quite welcome and enjoy the drawing. Thanks for translating the page, I believe the article is ready for FAC. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:14, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Also, take all of the time you need on the article, we pretty much got everything that is needed. Thanks again. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:29, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Please kindly check Alexandra Romanova - welcome to comment. 217.140.193.123 00:36, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your efforts, but as I said, User:Witkacy is a troll. This edit should quell any doubts about that. Tomer ^TALK 12:18, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Please dont move any discussions in my own name space (it would be nice if you ask me befor) thx.--Witkacy 22:36, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Witkacy, I have no problem with your blanking the talk in your namespace and I have no intention to interfere with this any further. However, the talk page was an integral part of the Black Book and I thought the talk, with its history that includes the comments from users who chose to respond to the Polonophobia accusations, should follow the project page. Again, it is entirely up to you whether you want to allow the responces from the alleged anti-Polonists as well as comments from other users in your userspace. You may blank them on sight, but the history of the talk should be with the black book itself. That was my motive and I am sorry you didn't agree and became unhappy about the page move I did. --Irpen 05:13, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the translation! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 10:37, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Большую часть текста я взял с официального сайта, поэтому возможно что и не везде НТЗ. С удовольствием прийму участие в обсуждении данного вопроса. --Untifler 16:29, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Untifler! Спасибо за сообщение. Я к сожалению мало чем могу помочь с материалом для этой статьи. Но даже при моей недостаточной квалификации в этом вопросе, мне показалось, что есть достаточно оснований для НТЗ флага. Наверное Вы со мной согласитесь, что трудно ожидать нейтральной биографии президента на официальном президентском сайте. Впрочем, я понимаю, что даже человеку, следящему за политикой Татарстана, понадобилось бы выделить немало времени, чтобы написать статью о президенте нейтрально и энциклопедично с нуля, и при ограниченном времени до этого могут и не дойти пока руки. На мой взгляд, лучше иметь даже предвзятую, но какую-никакую статью в ВП, чем не иметь ничего. Но естественно, случайный читатель, вероятно осведомленный о традициях в политике бСССР еще менее меня, должен быть предупрежден, что я и сделал.

У меня есть еще одно опасение. Эта статья во многом напрямую взята с президентского сайта. Я не уверен, что это разрешено с точки зрения авторского права. Российский закон подходит к авторскому праву на текст, опубликованоого государственными учреждениями, более избирательно чем американский закон (В штатах считается общественным практически всё, что публикуется государственными организациями). Посмотрите статью 8 росийского закона об авторском праве на wikisource wikisource:Закон об авторском праве и смежных правах#Статья 8. Произведения, не являющиеся объектами авторского права. В любом случае, пожалуйста не воспринимайте мою позицию как критику. Это просто мои предложения. Я слишком мало разбираюсь в предмете, чтобы самому активно учавствовать в этой статье. С уважением, --Irpen 04:43, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Вроде тут нет автогрских прав: сообщения о событиях и фактах, имеющие информационный характер. (А чем ещё является биография?). Если что, то пускай судятся :) --Untifler 12:25, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]