User talk:KMWeiland

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None of that was original research, only sourced from the various installments of the franchise, which while originating as a game also extends to film, television series, novels and manga; I wouldn't think it would apply, but I will cite reliable sources for all my contributions. KMWeiland (talk) 21:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, I did take a look at the sources you added to the template. Those do not hold up. They just reference a specific episode of a game without any quote or context (which basically amounts to "the game says so, take my word for it") and thus is still unverifiable. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that in this edit just now, you added a sourced quote "Part science-fiction, part Archie Comics, [EGS] is the best written and best drawn of the online [transformation] content comics today". I'm looking at an archived version of that source right now and it absolutely does not say that. It's cobbled together from two sentences with an extra word thrown in. Where did you find that quote? Woodroar (talk) 03:31, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Woodroar: Corrected so as to have it be in the right order (which works a whole lot better). At present I have six wholly independent, significant & reliable sources on EGS: El Goonish Shive; that has proven to be enough to keep the page based on previous webcomic articles I have looked at; should I cut down the character section a bit as well in order to have the page be kept? KMWeiland (talk) 03:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The quote is still wrong. And I'm sorry but you don't have 6 independent, significant, reliable sources:

The Webcomic Book Club is not reliable because it consisted entirely of amateur user-submitted reviews. We require reviews from professional critics published by reputable media.

Sequential Tart likely isn't a reliable source—for example, it's not mentioned at

WP:CMC/REF

and I can't find it refenced by other reliable sources—but that doesn't really matter because it's from an amateur reviewer that's not even part of the site's staff, plus at four paragraphs it's borderline trivial coverage.

The History of Webcomics likely isn't a reliable source and it's a "pictorial reference" which isn't significant coverage.

Edutopia may be a reliable source but it's a one-sentence passing mention in an article about something else entirely, which isn't significant coverage.

The Reflection isn't a reliable source, the reviewer isn't a professional, and it's one paragraph long which isn't significant coverage.

Appearances on lists aren't significant coverage, especially when they're based on some kind of user-voting.

Bisexuality Research Today was not a reliable source—there is literally 1 Google result for it—and the reference doesn't even mention which paper it's from. None of the abstracts mention it so it's extremely unlikely to be significant coverage, either. Woodroar (talk) 04:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@

Wikipedia:Webcomic sources supports Sequential Tart and The History of Webcomics as reliable sources, but I will look for some more sources. Thank you. KMWeiland (talk) 12:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

I would suggest that you slow down and read

WP:RS. You're adding anything and everything to EGS: El Goonish Shive: user-generated reviews, pseudonymous content, editorials, literally anyone with a website that mentions it. Not anyone who can put anything online is a reliable source. We're looking for articles covering El Goonish Shive in depth and written by professional critics and journalists and scholars—named people with training and a background of covering these subjects—and published by sites or papers/magazines or journals that are respected in their field. I personally don't think there's enough there, but even if we do keep the article, the first thing we'll have to do is cut out all that out. You're doing a disservice to the article by burying it in junky references and creating more work for everyone who has to evaluate them. So please, slow down and get an idea of what we're looking for instead of piling more on. Woodroar (talk) 15:29, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

@Woodroar: And I would say that Women Write About Comics and Digital Strips are exactly what you described the sources should be. I would agree that the other two sources are less well-known, yes, but they are far from junky. There were plenty of non-reputable reviews of El Goonish Shive online, I only added ones that do seem reputable, otherwise there would be a variety of independent blog posts here (and that is not usually something to reference). KMWeiland (talk) 16:00, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I'm just going to message you here since I don't want to clog the edits section of the articles in question, and I have a lot of stuff I want to talk about. Lots of the ace attorney content you've posted has not been verified - I say this as someone who has played all the games in the series and watched playthroughs of various editions of some of them (such as the trilogy remasters) and has never heard of some of this content.

For one: Which version of the games does this picnic picture with Godot and Mia supposedly appear in, and do you have any evidence of it appearing there? It's not an after-credits image. I am aware it exists as a promotional image, but that in no way makes it canonical or means it appeared in the games in any official capacity.

As for the Fey family tree: you cited episodes of the games, but this information does not appear in the games. Starting from the top and working our way down:

- You claim that the royal family of Khura'in is descended from Lady Kee'ra when they are explicitly stated to have descended from the Holy Mother, who was never confirmed to be the same person as Ami Fey. It's suggested that the Fey family is also descended from the same line but branched off at some point. Admittedly I have not pored over Spirit of Justice to the same extent that I have some of the other games, but I'm fairly certain that would have come up during the main storyline and not as bonus dialogue given the implications for the heredity of the throne.

- We don't know exactly how many years passed between Khura'in's establishment and the current timeline, do we? It was sometime around the seventh century, but your numbers are very specific.

- Bikini is never referred to as "Bikini Butz", unfortunate a name though it may be. She is never stated canonically to be Larry's mother. He does refer to her as his mother in one optional dialogue, but later in the game he simply says that she reminds him of his mother, not that she is his mother. (source: https://imgur.com/a/SHAPsdt)

- As well, we don't know the exact degree to which Bikini is related to the rest of the Feys. She's a member of the branch family, but it was never clear if she was first cousins with Morgan and Misty or further removed than that.

- As this is a supposed "family tree", mentor/student relationships don't exactly belong on there, do they? Such as Grossberg and Mia; Misty Fey and Larry; Mia and Phoenix.

- Mia and Lana were never canonically dating. While she does mention Mia's "attraction" to her, Ema says that it was "intellectual attraction", and it is not strong enough evidence that they were canonically in a relationship.

- Similarly, I question the use of past relationships in the family tree, such as with Iris and Phoenix. While they did date, they broke up, and had no children with each other, so I fail to see the point of it in the Fey family tree. Similarly with Godot and Mia, who were canonically in a relationship but did not have children and are separated by death. With this logic one would have to add every one of Larry's many girlfriends to the tree (if he belonged, which he does not.)

- For some reason it looks like you put Maya and Phoenix in a romantic relationship, and had them adopt Pearl? Maya and Phoenix are not dating (no matter how Pearl may have wished it to be so), and they did not adopt Pearl. Phoenix's only canonical child, adopted or otherwise, is Trucy. Maybe you meant it as a "found family" type thing, given the dotted lines, but the formatting isn't exactly clear there - and as much as I appreciate the found family trope, unfortunately there aren't enough canonical claims to make it official: unlike, say, Edgeworth and Franziska who are officially considered adopted siblings.

The last issue I have is with some of your other edits that have since been removed - one in particular is your claim that Apollo Justice was once called to "Apple Sahdmadhi", something I have never seen proof of, and which other users have removed.

I consider myself to be pretty familiar with these games - I spend too much of my personal time watching playthroughs, playing through them myself, reading transcripts for bonus dialogue - so I am reasonably confident that I have not missed information on this level. As well, I have browsed the fan wiki in case someone else has found this information, and none of this has come up. I am open to the possibility that I am wrong, however, so if you do have solid evidence for any of these claims, please source them properly, and preferably with a screenshot or the like - I don't believe simply posting the episode name to be sufficient, because I have played every one of those episodes and have not seen this information come up, so if it exists it is in an obscure and hard-to-find place. As well, I will admit I haven't read through the manga or the light novels, nor have I seen the official stage plays since I am not Japanese, so it's possible some information was missed there - but the canonicity of such material is dubious as best, and I'm not sure if it is reliable enough to be anymore than an offhand mention in the article like with Franziska and the "Madame Lovetap" claim.

I don't mean to offend, and I doubt you have malicious intent with any of this, but I would like to keep this all based on reliable and factual information. I just get very passionate about ace attorney sometimes! I will admit that I'm not exactly up to snuff with wikipedia's guidelines since I'm new here, so I apologize if this wasn't the right place and/or intensity for this issue, but I felt this deserved a more thorough discussion than the edit pages provided, and I had more issues than on just one page and wanted to make sure you saw this. If you're editing a page with information that is obscure and thus difficult to find and verify - to the extent it wouldn't appear on the fan wiki, for instance - please give a reliable source in the future to prevent further misunderstandings. Thank you! Rivalsforlife (talk) 19:00, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article EGS: El Goonish Shive is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EGS: El Goonish Shive until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Woodroar (talk) 02:35, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let's let other editors give their thoughts on reliability before making changes to the table. Only a couple editors isn't a real consensus. Woodroar (talk) 14:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Woodroar: Alright then. You were the other editor though who agreed on that, but two isn't a consensus, yes. Would three be then? A few means three I do believe. KMWeiland (talk) 15:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus isn't a vote, it's based on applicability of our guidelines and policies, and develops over time. Deletion discussions take at least a week, sometimes many weeks, and can draw dozens of editors. It's best to let other editors find the discussion and give their thoughts before we consider summarizing anything. See Wikipedia:Consensus and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion for more. Woodroar (talk) 15:26, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted your last edits at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EGS: El Goonish Shive. A few notes:

• First,
  never edit another user's comments to change their meaning
  . This should be obvious.
• Second, the Webcomics Work Group discussion didn't say "itself used in the context of other sources", you added that yourself.
• Third, there is no consensus on the reliability of those sources.

I would strongly suggest going through

@Woodroar: I will read though that. In order:

• Sorry, I thought that was what they meant by keeping the second time, and I didn't know that was what it meant.
• I did not realise that was an actual quote from the Webcomics Work Group until just now, I thought it was a general statement added by the user. Sorry about that.
• You were actually the one to say that Women Write About Comics and Geek Reply were reliable sources, although their coverage of EGS is trivial, which was still noted on the table.

Could I add that one part back (about Women Write About Comics and Geek Reply being reliable, although trivial)? I really didn't mean to misrepresent anything.

KMWeiland (talk) 12:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I meant that if they're reliable, they're still trivial and wouldn't count towards notability. WWAB might be but GR almost certainly isn't. I've clarified my comments at AfD. Woodroar (talk) 13:13, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Woodroar: Ah, that makes more much sense, sorry about that. KMWeiland (talk) 13:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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June 2020

welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 17:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

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Look, KMWeiland, I understand you care about Ben Drowned, but Wikipedia is not a Wikia or another Ben Drowned-dedicated website. A gigantic table AND a list of characters is trivial. Stop adding it in. It's

WP:PRIMARY sourced and has no place here. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 17:04, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

@Soetermans: Yes, I agreed with you on not having both, so only added back the list without having the table. The majority of character lists across Wikipedia are solely primary sourced, so I don't see how that is a huge problem, but I shall get right onto getting secondary sources to use as references there if you would prefer them. KMWeiland (talk) 23:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Ben Drowned, you may be blocked from editing. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 07:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi KMWeiland, please stop your disruptive editing. A long list of characters is not needed. Period. This list of characters you keep adding back in only describes what happens to the characters, which is already covered by the plot. There is no sense in having a list like that. And what other articles might have is

WP:OWN the article at this point. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 07:12, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

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