User talk:MB/Archive 14
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
South Carolina Hall of Fame
Hi! You added the self published template to the South Carolina Hall of Fame page and I'm wondering why, and how to fix it. All of the information comes from their official website. Thanks! JaneClawsten (talk) 19:03, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- JaneClawsten, see WP:Notability. Every article should have sources that are independent of the subject. Has this place be written about in newspapers/magazines? Find some outside source that have covered it, otherwise it may be not meet Wikipedia notability requirement. MB 19:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ok great, I will do that. Thanks! JaneClawsten (talk) 19:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
New article of possible interest to you
Thank you for your DYK nom for
- btphelps, I am very busy right now and don't have time for it. You can do it yourself, the process is not that difficult. I didn't read the article, but in something that long there must be a good hook if not several. MB 01:29, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for retargeting the redirect
I wasn't sure why
- Clovermoss, I searched the article and it wasn't mentioned. Then I googled it and didn't find Yale as a top hit, so I have no idea why it went there. It didn't even seem like an edge case worthy of a RFD. MB 03:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- From the brief glance I took at it, my best guess was that it had something to do with Yale Blue? But that article doesn't mention New Blue either, so I'm still confused. It seemed like the better route to just do a redirect hatnote when I was unsure because if it did have some well-established meaning with Yale, people would likely be looking for that most of the time compared to a political party that was established in 2020. Clovermoss (talk) 03:51, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Michael Glaser
You have made three (3) reverts on the Infobox issue. Therefore you must proceed to the discussion on the Talk Page, instead of making further reverts on this.
A discussion has been started there (see bottom of Talk Page).
Thank you, Chesapeake77 >>> ♥ Truth 05:48, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
List of museums
Hey, They all do have references. Can you not see them? Also they have links to the actual articles in wikipedia. --Akrasia25 (talk) 17:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- WP:SAL for what is required. Every article, including lists, needs a lead paragraph. MB17:57, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- You are taking SAL to extremes. There are exceptions. The red links are there in other lists and meant to be filled out later (maybe by me). This is not a paper encyclopedia. You could also assume good intentions. One of the articles has already been reviewed and passed by a reviewer which you now decided to send back. I am not interested in doing more on this. Your review just makes me want to take a break from Wikipedia. You could also have helped on improving the article rather than just deleting them. Your review here is not helpful Akrasia25 (talk) 18:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- You are mistaken. Draft:List of museums in Transnistria was declined by KylieTastic - They agree the article is not ready for mainspace. Regardless of the sourcing, the articles all lack leads to give them any context. You seem to have ignored that. MB 18:16, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Wolfgang Hoffmann orphan tag
Added four links: Joseph Hoffmann {anomaly: put 'children' under 'parents' in Info Box, but it appears reversed when saved (?)}, Pola Stout, University of Applied Arts Vienna and Kem Weber. Is this enough to removed the orphan tag... or maybe not. Cheers! Shir-El too 08:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Shir-El too, there only needs to be one link from another article, so I removed the orphan tag. MB 14:02, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
Wye College
Hi,
I have stripped out a lot of the pictures on Wye College. Does it look OK now?
There is a 2016 third-party tag on the article. The page had been somewhat hijacked by campaigners with their own articles. It would be great if you could express a view on that tag if you look over the pictures again. Many thanks.Ed1964 (talk) 14:57, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
- MOS:OL. MB15:53, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Convert Error
Hey! Thank you for catching that error on the Samsung Galaxy A20s page. What exactly happened there and how can I prevent it from happening in the future? I assume I need to do a better job about checking things after I’ve made an edit, too.
Thanks again! Cyberweet (talk) 07:55, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
A beer for you!
cheers! Thanks! talk ) 16:47, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
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Disambiguation link notification for June 24
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Paracel Islands, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Cambodian.
(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:21, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Gordon Peters - British Actor
Hi all
Very new to Wiki editing, but due to no source, my entry for this actor’s death is removed.
I can tell you now that he did sadly die as I’ve been in contact with his daughter about this. Griff86 (talk) 07:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- original research. Once his death is reported, it can be added with a source. MB13:46, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
"Tramping" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Tramping and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 5#Tramping until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Turnagra (talk) 06:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Chigger redirect
Sorry about that - dumb of me not to have looked in the history and seen the RfD. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:33, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Another kind of barn
I'm seeing more barns with
In Kentucky and Missouri have also been seeing variations of a different kind of barn than we have covered. These are large, wide, spreading, with wide openings perhaps for horses and farm equipment, maybe never with doors, I dunno. --Doncram (talk) 18:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- Doncram, looks like a double catslide - roof extensions at a lower pitch than the main roof that make more area under roof. Although it's probably not called that. Here and here are metal ones for sale. I think it is pretty common. plans for a wood one. MB 02:29, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- Double asymmetrical =? Symmetrical??
- Historic barns in Colorado have semi-high center gable, and two lower shed roofs. That is definitely a thing, a type, worthy of an article. I see what you mean that this one is like that, but these in Kentucky and Missoura are different, i will have to pay more attention to defining qualities. One characteristic may be the big doorways' shapes, five-lined (? To coin a term?), unlike doorways present in one of your catalog links. Hmm. --Doncram (talk) 14:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
A somewhat related thing, also available from catalogs, which i was previously aware of needing an article (grammar?), is a
- I'm watching for historic loafing sheds now, hope to add to Category:Loafing sheds and Media related to Loafing sheds at Wikimedia Commons. Have visited a 100- or 120-year old 6-bay one in Colorado, have yet to see if there's useable sourcing for it. Barely started Draft:Loafing shed.
- I have encountered fact that numerous types of farm buildings need articles. Many terms are redirected to "Barn" article, including "horse barn", "cow barn", and "cow house". Seems to me that "horse barn" is not the same as stable, which does have a very brief article.
- I am more surprised that "chicken house", "chicken coop", "hen coop" and more are among redirects to "Poultry farming". The Poultry farming article and related articles has interesting treatment of battery cages vs. furnished cages etc. regarding humane-or-not raising of chickens, but just bare mention of term "chicken coop", certainly no pictures or history. The small chicken coop which can be in one's back yard, and historic coops or chicken houses of historic NRHP properties, i.e. anything less than modern huge poultry operations, deserve a separate article.
- And Hog house is a redlink, I find when I try to link from John Ross Farm article. It appears to me that Pig farming article is equivalent to the Poultry farming article, and likewise an article on small/historic hog houses is needed IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 16:09, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Backlog drive coordinators
Hello. I had an idea. Should we add the two backlog drive coordinators to the
- Novem Linguae, I had thought about that. Wasn't sure if/when the next backlog drive will be or if they want to be considered "permanent" coordinators. On the other hand, it would give them some recognition for managing this drive, which is fine even if they never do it again. So sure. You can probably just do it, or check with them first. MB 03:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
NPP
I was a bit concerned recently from some comments around the site that Arbcom might be intervening to bring about some changes to NPP and AfC. Of course I may well have got it completely wrong, but if there is a modicum of truth in it I don't think it's a good idea. If you are interested in sharing out some of the coordinator tasks and convincing some people to take them on, I believe that among the main issues that need support at NPP are:
- Getting the 90-Day NO INDEX changed to indefinite - this might happen soon - thanks again for following up on it.
- Encouraging reviewers to be more bold over using Draftification, and not worry about any backlogs it creates at AfC.
- Encouraging reviewers to use the tutorial instead of posting questions for help on every small detail of reviewing they can’t get their heads around. Most of it is stuff they should have been diligent enough to learn before they applied for the right.
- Encouraging admins at PERM to accord the NPP right for all applicants who qualify, on a probationary basis first.
- Getting inactive reviewers and hat-collectors removed so that it is known exactly how many genuine reviewers there are.
- Watching why some features of the new pages feed and the curation toolbar are no longer working as they should. I co-developed these years ago with the WMF after a long struggle for them and lots of meetings with the Vice CEO and senior devs, and it saddens me to see them not being maintained. See this page which I created.
IMO they are issues to decided locally by the NPP volunteers directly and not by users who have no practical experience in those areas. A pragmatic approach is what is now needed - just as we did at ACTRIAL - and not stubbornly adhering to some antiquated Wikipedia ideology. A project for it exists. You could start here if you find it helpful.. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:30, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
- The ARBCOM case is mostly about civility/conduct related to deletion. IMO, it has nothing to do with the level of NPP issues in your list here. As I mentioned in the newsletter, there have been a lot of VP discussions about NPP and closely related issues, with some saying we do way too much and should just pass everything if isn't a CSD. The inclusionist/deletionist divide is clear, and I think will ensure there won't be consensus to change anything significant. Making draftification easier or harder is the only thing I can imagine happening.
- I will pursue getting others to take on specific coordination tasks since there is no willing coordinator or even co-coordinators. May not be around much for a week due to vacation. I will comment in more detail about your list when I have time. MB 07:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
RFC: I am not in any way a deletionist, but I am extremely concerned for the quality encyclopedia I have dedicated thousands of hours to over the years - I am sure many others feel the same way, after all, building a reliable database of knowledge (and not spam or PoV) is what most of us are here for. I hope I'm wrong (sometimes I am), but IMO, submitting the urgent changes required for NPP to discussion by the entire WP community will invite pushback from the thousands of creators of the very kind of articles NPP is designed to prevent from entering the encyclopedia. Also, the WMF is entrenched in the now antiquated ideology that growth in the number of articles is essential to the continued existence of Wikipedia, and they will exploit any excuse to avoid any measures that they belive will impact the creation of new articles - we saw it very clearly with their attitude to ACTRIAL until we proved them wrong. History, SPI and other processes have suggested that the grey number of registered users who abuse our article policies is probably huge. Just my thoughts, but it makes me wonder why I bother at all and still patrol some pages. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:33, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hi. Could you please let me have an update on what is happening on your request for indefinite 'NOINDEX' ? I have been very reluctantly joining in with patrolling new pages and I notice that starting with totally unsourced pages, there are 100s of pages dangerously close to the current 90 day limit or already over it. Please let me have a permalink to the RfC you started at the VP, I've searched everywhere and I can't find it. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:26, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- I realise this now after having vainly tried to locate it from a vague link someone posted at Phab making it look as if it were to be a major RfC. I finally located the post at the VP. As you say, it was indeed only a notification about the RfC at WT:NPR, which still has consensus as did the earlier original RfC which got somehow swept under the carpet. So as far as I can see there should be no reason for anyone to post at Phab in order to stall the request. I have posted at Phab that consensus has not changed and asked them to get on with it. I was a bit disappointed that some people appeared to have possibly been attempting to convince the devs otherwise. But after all these years and the debacle over ACTRIAL I have a nasty suspicious mind. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:50, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- I realise this now after having vainly tried to locate it from a vague link someone posted at Phab making it look as if it were to be a major RfC. I finally located the post at the VP. As you say, it was indeed only a notification about the RfC at
- The 'NOINDEX' might not happen after all. I have drifted from peak to peak of optimism, but I think it's more now of doom & gloom. The discussion at WT:NPR seems to have stagnated and one user is doing his best to convince Phab that a stronger consensus is required but of course while Phab is not the place to do it, the damage is done and the devs will run for shelter. You may end up with no alternative than to run a full blown RfC. However, it will only take a few individuals with a vested interest in having their articles indexed to vote 'oppose' and scupper the initiative for good. Nevertheless, before it comes to that, it might be possible to exert some more pressure at Phab to insist that a consensus stands. I've done what I can there but I can't do more. One of the problems is that the person in overall charge of Phab doesn't like me because I have won so many arguments there in the past. NPP might need to be looking towards some alternative and more radical solutions.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:38, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- The 'NOINDEX' might not happen after all. I have drifted from peak to peak of optimism, but I think it's more now of doom & gloom. The discussion at
- I realise you are busy in RL at the moment and I don't want to get on your nerves. I have made a few edits to the draft for a July newsletter. I don't want you think I have usurped your enthusiasm, and I really don't want to get back into the mainstream of coordinating NPP, but the edits (especially the format) might be helpful, and for keeping the news short and sweet. As there are over 1,000 admins who all have NPP rights, it might be an idea to send it to the admin newsletter list as well. If I am being a nuisance, don't hesitate to let me know - I won't be offended. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Kudpung, back at a desktop computer. Last week was wife's birthday beach resort vacation where I had only a mobile device and limited time. I noticed your edits to the newsletter. I think another should not go out until at least first week of Aug when we have results of backlog drive, so there is plenty of time to work on that. I asked you in June about sending the newsletter to admins, and you replied that it was not worth it as most thought NPP was beneath them - you seem to have reversed on that.
- On NOINDEX, sensing the hesitancy of them to do anything when there is any doubt on the consensus - I asked them to just extend to 365 for now since there was virtually no objection to that. I'm not sure if they will do that, but I don't see any good reason for them not to; all the objections were just over Indefinite, no one advocated to keep at 90. If they do the 365, then we can still do an RFC over indefinite later.
- On inactive NPPers, I found this report covering the second half of 2018. I'd like to see this run every month (for the last six and 12 months). Any idea if requesting at Wikipedia talk:Database reports would go anywhere? I spot checked a few of the ones with zero reviews on the 2019 report, and none of them still had NPP, so someone is removing inactives at some point. But it would be good to make removal of more formal. I know that inactive admins get a warning message if they don't perform the minimum number of admin actions. Do you know what does that? Maybe we can piggyback on that and do the same thing - give a friendly reminder after six months and then remove if still no reviews in 12.
- Enough for now. MB 04:55, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- I realise you are busy in RL at the moment and I don't want to get on your nerves. I have made a few edits to the draft for a July newsletter. I don't want you think I have usurped your enthusiasm, and I really don't want to get back into the mainstream of coordinating NPP, but the edits (especially the format) might be helpful, and for keeping the news short and sweet. As there are over 1,000 admins who all have NPP rights, it might be an idea to send it to the admin newsletter list as well. If I am being a nuisance, don't hesitate to let me know - I won't be offended. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Early August sounds fine, but in the interest of keeping the newsletter as short and sweet as possible, it might be more appropriate to post the results of the backlog drive at
I haven't really reversed my opinion on admins vs NPP, but there are a few, especially Joe Roe and Rosguill who are very prolific and in times of crisis more admins could possibly be stirred into action if they were aware of it. If I were still an admin I would be doing a whole lot more.
There is no formal process for removing inactive reviewers. It's my fault for not including such a clause when I created the user group and its policy; I just didn't think about it. The problem today is, with the burgeoning trend to demand full blown RfCs for every tiny thing, it would probably be difficult to obtain a consensus - let's not forget that the dozens of hat collectors among the 700 NPPers would all turn out to oppose. You could try just boldly removing some as you suggest, but don't be surprised if you get some pushback. The only argument in favour is that as you say, some other rights have inactivity embedded into their policies. The coordinator of AfC has some strict criteria for inactivity which he manages exceptionally well, but he doesn't need a policy because AfC is not an official process. It's strictly still only a Wikiproject and if push were to come to shove, Wikipedia could live without it; that said however, AfC provides a very important service for user rettention and if I were still a fully active Wikipedian and admin I would be campaigning to get it recognised. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:57, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- With admins, I think awareness is really the key. Almost active admins are autopatrolled and NPP rarely comes up at administrative noticeboards... I suspect they often just forget it's there. – Joe (talk) 09:19, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think Joe Roe is probably right. In any case, like New Page Reviewers, the vast majority of admins are barely active. Sending the next newsletter to the admin mailing list just this onece might have some results. One can also make a suggestion to the author of the admin newsletter to add something reminding admins that NPP needs their help, and that according NPR rights, not to forget that PERM now has the 'probation' feature.
- In the draft for the next newsletter, I've expanded slightly on the bit about inactive users. It might be an idea to see if this has any effect before literally removing the rights after a period of non-patrolling. That said, I have spent some time going through that report 2018 activity report and it was very interesting. It shows an alarming near 50% of reviewers not having used the right at all. I think it is an extremely useful Quarry and it would be a very good idea to run one right now for the last 12 months, another immediately after the backlog drive and then request a regular report by the bot as you suggest, perhaps once a month. although doing it manually once a month does not seem to be too onerous. It looks as if Xaosflux has been removing some users who have not been active for 12 months. There doesn't seem to have been any fall out over it and kudos for him to have been doing it. Many of the 0-review editors still have the user right. Some of them are ones who were grandfathered into the new user group when it was created. Some are ones I accorded at PERM when I was an admin. Some are now admins and NPR is bundled with their tools. If we can get a Quarry run done right now - I don't have a clue how to do it - I'll ask Insertcleverphrasehere if he can do one now based on the last 12 months , I don't mind going through it and thoroughly analysing it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I do some cleanups along with other advanced permissions for inactives, but only if someone is 100% inactive on the entire project for 12+ months. If other routine removal criteria have community support adding it to Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers#Guidelines_for_revocation could be useful. Best regards, — xaosflux Talk 01:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
@Kudpung and Barkeep49:, this thread has grown and involved many issues and editors. There are other discussions on other issues on other editors TPs. Why don't we have a place for this? Is there any reason why we don't have a NPP coordination TP for things like this that don't belong on the general discussion page? Then there would be better history/archiving. MB 02:33, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- @MB there was consensus in 2018 to limit the number of NPP related talk pages so that the discussion would be centralized and have the most eyes on it. If you think the needs of NPP would be better served undoing that redirect, well 2018 was a long time ago and consensus can change. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I also do not think creating more sub pages is a good idea. Perhaps the best place for purely coordination related discussion would be at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination, but first the redirects made by Usernamekiran would need to be reverted. I cannot imagine why yet another RfC needs to be launched for such a no brainer. In my day I would have just gone ahead and done it, but as I have said many times, there is this silly new trend to launch an RfC if just a comma needs adding somewhere.
- @Xaosflux:, in fact I wrote the page at Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers#Guidelines_for_revocation but I meant to say 'inactive patrolling for 12 months'. I suppose it's not possible to insert that in the text nowadays without calling for a major RfC. I could just modify that sentence. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- That is exactly what I meant. The need is evidenced by the coordination discussions that are happening on various personal TPs. We are clearly having discussions that we don't think belong on the general discussion page, so let's move there. I will revert that redirect. (Novem Linguae just started another one below on backlog drive coordination) MB 03:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for that, MB. Despite the many years I managed NPP it's more than I would have dared to do from my own initiative in today's climate. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Kudpung I don't think you'd need a major RfC for that - because the impact is small (there are only 816 people in that group, it still requires admin action on each to change, and it is easily restored). I'd think that if you propose it at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers, drop a mention of it in the next newsletter and let it sit for a couple of weeks after that it should be fine, even if at that point the discussion isn't well attended - it was well advertised. Best regards, — xaosflux Talk 09:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
"Extreme prejudice" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Extreme prejudice and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 15#Extreme prejudice until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:13, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Improve encyclopedic language
Hi @MB, I see you made edits to a page I created Alliance for Innovation and Infrastructure. Since then another editor has proposed the page for speedy deletion and a second editor contested. As I am still new, I am still working out how to write in encyclopedic language - could you assist in smoothing out that page? OrgTracker (talk) 13:35, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Jiminy Cricket
I dropped in to thank you for your efforts at NPP, and saw the loafing shed discussion - couldn't resist. As it turns out, I'm in worse shape than even I could imagine because what I used to be able to do in a single edit took me several. You'll be happy to know it is not a habit but a freak thing, and I have a good excuse, but enough about my goof already. You've been a huge help at NPP, and I just wanted to acknowledge it ... and it only took a single edit to do so. THANK YOU!! Atsme 💬 📧 23:32, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
We KNOW it's the freaking lighthouse that's the subject of the article, the only information actually being conbeyed is the DATE, so that all that is necessary to say. Stop. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Beyond My Ken, first of all, your captions were not displayed because you used the wrong parameter. Second, I disagree that a year is a sufficient caption. That does not necessarily mean the date of the photo, some people could interpret to be the date the structure was built. Nothing wrong with being clear. MB 01:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- It is not subject to misinterpretation. No one in their right mind thinks that a lighthouse built in the 19th century was constructed in 2022. That's just BS. It's painfully obvious that the date shown is the date of the photograph. Please do not change one of my captions again, or I will bring this issue up to an admin. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- WP:CONDUCT). MB02:29, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
- I've been around long enough know what improves pages and what doesn't What you were doing doesn;t. Do it again and I'll report you, that's the bpttom line Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:07, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- It is not subject to misinterpretation. No one in their right mind thinks that a lighthouse built in the 19th century was constructed in 2022. That's just BS. It's painfully obvious that the date shown is the date of the photograph. Please do not change one of my captions again, or I will bring this issue up to an admin. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Karina Lombard
Every single line in the article had at least one source, including the date of birth. If you can't even bother to look before removing days of work, you should not be permitted to work on here. I am simply disgusted by your downright lazy behaviour, and might I suggest you stop being so patronising with the referencing for beginners comment and find yourself an article on "whatever it is you do" for beginners. 48Pills (talk) 03:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello I am not I understand what is happening with this article. I have sent you some message in the article's talk last month but haven't got any reply. I finally figured out how to send you a talk message directly. Below, I copy pasted what I sent in the article's talk. Some guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Hello, I am not sure what this means. Can you please explain what is wrong and how to fix it? It is indeed my first wiki contribution, and I have not much experience. That is try to focus on one article first. Maryvank (talk) 02:41, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] I am not familiar with many of the jargon, tags etc too. can you please tell me what does Twinkle mean? Maryvank (talk) 02:51, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Some guidance regarding this would be greatly appreciated. Maryvank (talk) 10:45, 21 July 2022 (UTC) Maryvank (talk) 10:55, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
- CONFLICT OF INTEREST? If so, you should not be editing this article directly. MB16:59, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
- @MBThank you for replying. I still have no clue how to fix it, but I would like to fix it and improve it. Can you help me or guide me please?
- "Have you looked at those and read the information at the blue links in the tags?" I will review this.
- "do you have a CONFLICT OF INTEREST?" No I dont have a conflict of interest, I just chose it to start my wiki experience with as there is a lot of materials available on the subject seeing it is archived in the National Trove by the National Library of Australia Maryvank (talk) 12:48, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- @MB Which tags do you mean by "What is important are the two tags placed at the top of the article."?
- Can you please quote them for me? I am really lost here Maryvank (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maryvank, I mean what is in the big box at the top of the article with the big orange border and exclamation point. MB 13:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- @MB
- Thank you. I have taken a look at those links.
- First of all "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject." as stated earlier I have no connection to the subject. I chose it to start my wiki experience because it is listed in the National Trove or National Library https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20220406142610/https://www.sauleslake.info/
- Secondly, "This biography of a living person relies too much on references to primary sources" I thought that we are meant to have reference to everything we write here so I aimed. Most of the references I used are from the media publications. So I am a bit lost here. Not able to understand what is wrong or how to fix it.
- I feel a bit discouraged and I dont want to make it worst by tweaking what I am now totally clueless about.
- Can you tell me what is wrong and how to fix it? Maybe give a couple of example - so I can review it based on your example?
- Thanks again Maryvank (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maryvank, yes, everything should be referenced. However, in most cases, references should be independent of the subject. Sources should not be published by or heavily influenced by the subject (such as interviews with little editorial oversight). See this. I have not made a detailed analysis of the sources in the article and did not place this tag, but someone thought it was applicable. I do note that in your time here, you have worked on little else but this article and are responsible for most of its content. It had social media sites in the EL section and many external links within the article. Those are signs that the author is connected and is promoting something. Are you sure you do not have a COI? MB 17:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- @MB
- I endeavour to include at least 1 reference, in some cases several references, for everything that I stated. Mostly from national TV, Radio, and other publications and news article in Australia's leading media by leading and well respected journalists, clearly not "interviews with little editorial oversight"; as well as from government websites including Parliamentary website; and whenever they are also mentioned in the subject's website i included that as well (i had thought it is a good thing to include as many reference as i can find for each facts - it appears now that this is not a good thing?) And yes indeed i added the social media that is on the subject's website too - again not realising that it they not considered reference but they are making it looks COI.
- Once again i wish to reiterate that the subject is listed in National Library pf Australia webarchive https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20220406142610/https://www.sauleslake.info/ Do you think that the National Library of Australia will archive unsubstantiated fraudulent website in the national archive in perpetual?
- I am quite taken aback and disheartened with the whole experience. We all have different learning style. I just did not expect very little guidance explanation from the more experience people apart from such judgemental treatment and labelling, admitedly without the appropriate investigation other than someone thought so. Anyone making such unsubstantiated and uninvestigated accussation and labelling could be COI too. Just because someone is more experienced and has been around for longer does not guarantee that he /she does not have a COI too, they could have gained reputation and expertise in navigating and even manipulating the system - but it does not guarantee no COI. At the very least, investigation and analysis of the sources in the article needed before such labelling is made.
- "I have not made a detailed analysis of the sources in the article and did not place this tag, but someone thought it was applicable." my effort to seek clarification and hopefully learn from the experience has been met with multiple "Also, do you have a CONFLICT OF INTEREST?" "Are you sure you do not have a COI?" Maryvank (talk) 19:30, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maryvank, yes, everything should be referenced. However, in most cases, references should be independent of the subject. Sources should not be published by or heavily influenced by the subject (such as interviews with little editorial oversight). See this. I have not made a detailed analysis of the sources in the article and did not place this tag, but someone thought it was applicable. I do note that in your time here, you have worked on little else but this article and are responsible for most of its content. It had social media sites in the EL section and many external links within the article. Those are signs that the author is connected and is promoting something. Are you sure you do not have a COI? MB 17:08, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maryvank, I mean what is in the big box at the top of the article with the big orange border and exclamation point. MB 13:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
Edit
I made an edit you reverted where i added "spus" but i realized it didnt have an "=" sign so i put it back and added an "=" just so i can make the word "kilonetres" spell american instead of british. BMAR (talk) 12:22, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
- I didn't realize it was intended to be "sp=us", I just saw "spus" was flagged as a unknown unit in the error message. MB 14:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)