User talk:Valentino2013
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June 2013
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- He left behind well armed men Bold in attack, like spears.<ref>{{ cite book |last1=Ibn Ishaq |last2= Guillaume |title=The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn
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- of [[Najran]], the city of [[Shammar Yahri'sh|Shammar]] "[[Zafar]] the city of Shammar Yahri'sh (Shamir Yur'ish", and he subdued [[Ma'add]], and the dealt gently with the nobles<br>
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- Nazr is the tilt of Jesus Christ he was titles "Head of Notzaris) cheif of the nuns (males and females ) of the temple. a Notzari was a high hounor given only to
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- explain Genesis 25:16:"And they (children of Ishmael) dwelled from Hindikia (IndianOcean) toPalusa (Pelusiumt which is before Egypt as thou goest to Atur(Assyria)."
- in Palestinians (Nebel et al. 2000) and of Moroccan Arabs (Bosch et al. 2001). this haplotype (was diffused in recent time by Arabs who, mainly from the 7th century A.D., expanded to northern
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- explain Genesis 25:16:"And they (children of Ishmael) dwelled from Hindikia (IndianOcean) toPalusa (Pelusiumt which is before Egypt as thou goest to Atur(Assyria)."
- in Palestinians (Nebel et al. 2000) and of Moroccan Arabs (Bosch et al. 2001). this haplotype (was diffused in recent time by Arabs who, mainly from the 7th century A.D., expanded to northern
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- SNP L147.1+ is a lineage that is the majority of the Semitic subclade J1-P58 of [[Haplogroup J1]]) and was spread by the Arab conquest of 7th century that spread it to North Africa.
- have YCAII=22-22 are inside L-147.1+ meaning they are L147.1+ positive ie they have this mutation).
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Hello, I'm Bookworm857158367. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Nazar (given name) because it did not appear constructive. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:22, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
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Ishamelites
I've reverted your edits on DNA because anything to do with DNA has to come from peer-reviewed scientific sources (which your sources are not) and must mention the Ishmaelites directly (see
The Coffman article is the most cited article in all genetic geneology research. her work as an attorney requires her to understand the subject for legal matters such as if two are brothers or not etc.
Semino et al 2004 is not peer reviewed?? these are the top notch! after all genetic geneology is simple 10 years old boy understanding. I really don't have time to edit warring, so i added the studies that coffman refered to in her article.Valentino2013 (talk) 09:19, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Valentino your edits go beyond anything published as far as I can see. For example where can we find any published article which insists on calling a 22-22 result in YCAII (looked at in isolation) as a marker of a clade of J1? Using STRs to try to find clades has to be done by looking at many STRs at once, and preferably also at SNP test results. And to be honest I do not think 10 year old boys all typically get this.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 15:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
22-22 is just a one str marker, However it is very slow to change 1 in 5000 births or 1 in 5000 sons of a one man or once in 5000 generation. WELL! DID YOU NOT SEE THE REFERENCE Semino et al study? do you think you know more than the people of that study? almost 95% of the Arab clade L147 is 22-22 by testing. can you explain that ?Valentino2013 (talk) 02:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC) So if Ishmael who lived 4000 years ago (ie just 110 generations) most of his current descendents will be 22-22. It is only the 22-22 inside of Haplogroup J1 that makes it a subclade. because it is unlikely that J1-peoples of different YCAII numbers to decide among themselves that just the ones who are 22-22 should immigrate to the desert and become arabs! The fact that J1 have subclade J-p58 it is 99.9999% of J1 , only three people are found in every other subclade. that does not even constitute a subclade. P58 contains the L147 subclade which is again 99.99% of J1 now in L147 there are the assyrians the caldeans the ethiopians who were existant before abraham was born have all kinds of varieties, but Abraham (and Aaron) had one swtatic haplotype that all decendents of them should cluster around it.
what ever ycaII FOR ABRAHAM it will stay the same with minute cluster around it like 22-21 but 22-19 is too much because 19 to 22 is 3 mutations the peobability for first mutation is 1 in 500 the second mutation probability is astronomical 1 in millions.. The article of Semino mentions that 22-22 is a monophyletic clade.
In wikipedia they have article Y-chromosomal Aaron. they decided it must be in J1 just because Arabs have high J1 (without making anystudies) if you go to Family tree DNA the results are 95% J1 and Family tree test J1 more than all the other lqabs and research in the world combined. Coffman article is valid because it is a compilation of all previous studies before 2005 and so it is cited as reference in almost all studies after 2005. So if the researchers reference it why can't wiki? The Arab DNA website do MRCA between two arabs and it is always below 3700 years (before present). there is a simple calculator on the web that can give MRCA between 2 haplotypes and the same calculator can tell you the Haplogroup probabilities for 6 str haplotype input.
STR is used in forensic and intelligence for 50 years or more. they could tell if the dna is male or female , native american or white or black or arabic etc. the research of Semino is no joke because it is used for for forensics, not like other studies that are paid for in advance ...Valentino2013 (talk) 01:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
- Semino et al did not mention L147 or Ishmael etc etc. Please see WP:OR. You are also misunderstanding how researchers use individual STRs. They are used to help identify clades, along with other results, and our article currently tries to express this. But they do not define clades in the way you are saying. If you just look for a single result of YCAII=22-22 it is very common for example amongst British men who are in haplogroup R1b. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 05:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)]
- Another nuance you seem to be missing. There is a big difference between saying that a particular haplogroup was probably spread by a known historical dispersal of people, (in the way that published sources talk about J1 and the Islamic expansion as a probable link), and saying or implying that true Arabs are J1.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 08:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
There are lots of articles about the Most recent common ancestor of R1b and R1a1 5000 years ago. why do you mind here> and this article about Ishmaelites who claim they decend from Abraham, so DNA geneology is warranted. L147 is the same as Cohan modal haplotype it is in the reference (euwikia genetics I provided. the YCAII inside of J1 only is a monophyletic not YCAII anywhere else. and this referenced by Semino et al (i refere3nced, all you need is to read it pdf), and the calculations for the most recent common ancestor for jews and arabs is in the study of Kosylov where he mentions Abraham. Nebet et al says that documented history like in Ephal 1984 book where he mentions the assyrians mentions the arabs are ishmaelites is referenced in his study whic I referenced. semino " Considering the distribution of this YCAII sin- gle-banded pattern—which, besides the usual stepwise mutational mechanism, could be due to a stable mu- tational event (one locus deletion or a single-nucleotide mutation in the primer sequence)—we suggest that the motif YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22 potentially characterizes a monophyletic clade of J-M267. A comparable situation isobservedwithinHgI-M170,inwhichthesingle-banded haplotype YCAIIa21-YCAIIb21 parallels a biallelic marker" nebel et al "Documented historical events, references 10 books (ephal 1984 mention of Arabs as Ishmaelites in the Assyrian records from the 9th century B.C., and the ancient claim of the Bible and Arabs they are descendents of Ishmael and Abraham and speak their own language ), together with the finding of a particular J1 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans as a result of the 7th century Arab conquest, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes." recent means less than 4000 years in DNA geneology! and common origin means one male person. Koslyov: ""Origin of peoples in a context of DNA genealogy is an assignment of each of them to a particular tribe or its branch (lineage) initiated in a genealogical sense by a particular ancestor who had a base (“ancestral”) haplotype. This also includes an estimation of a time span between the common ancestor and its current descendants.
If information obtained this way can be presented in a historical context and supported, even arguably, by other independent archeological, linguistic, historical, ethnographic, anthropological and other related considerations, this can be called a success." and he calculated the Most recent common ancestor of jews and arabs as he did for several peoples in the article "the most recent common ancestor of Jews and Arabs of haplogroup J1 (subclade J1e) lived 4300 500 years ago, and he had the "J1 Abraham Modal Haplotype", former "Cohen Modal Haplotype" signature. From him a split occurred between the Jewish and the Arabic lineages in haplogroup J1 (J1e*)" I did not add anything from my self. see here Kolsyov web page and he is a landmark of genetic geneology and math and chemistry http://aklyosov.home.comcast.net/~aklyosov/ he even got a gold medqal from cohanim jews. do you want me to put these large statements instead?Valentino2013 (talk) 15:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
- Semino et al does not mention L147. It was not even discovered then.
- The YCAII=22-22 cluster is already mentioned in the article. (You even tried to delete it.) So no one is denying it exists.
- Your own research should be published elsewhere before you try to get it on Wikipedia.
- euwikia and most wikis do not count as sources we should use on Wikipedia.
- Klyosov is also known to me and he is a smart guy (though not a geneticist). I have used him before on Wikipedia and been criticized for it. Problem is that he does not get published in the strongest journals, and he tends to make striking pronouncements. This automatically makes it difficult to cite him according to the WP:REDFLAGrule.
Your problem relates not only to sourcing but the way you edit. You report your sources in a way which does not show good understanding of them, and you do not edit well or carefully. For example equating one STR result to a clade definition, or writing as if you can equate a people with a Y haplogroup. I would suggest taking your time to right drafts of what you want to say on article Talk Pages. There is no
THE reference to L147.1 was in my ref Eupedia.com http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml which was deleted, you delete my ref and then ask where is the ref?? eupedia says L147.1 include 22-22 and CMH information they got from FTDNA. eupedia.com is a valid ref according to wikipedia.Valentino2013 (talk) 21:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC) Nebel et al refered to several books that mention documented history namely the Assyrian records which mention 8 kings of Qedarites on span of 200 years, some time King Ubate is called king of the Arabs, few years later he is called king of Ishmael, and so on for several kings ARABS=Ishmael=Qedar (the son of Ishmael) Nebel says because of this and other facts such as the 7th century arabic conquest of north africa, and then by DNA genealogy finding the Haplotype of The Arab palestinians in Yemen and in Morocco, he says the arabs have a claim of a recent ancestor (less than 4000 years) and the dna eidence that this haplotype have a recent common ancestor, then arabs story about being from Ishmael is true. It is based on this study that Nebel and Hammaer saved face when the world discovered their deception about CMH which was found in two deep haplotypes J1 and J2 and even Q, so they wanted to preserve the CMH in J1 by comparing it to the arabs who were by then knwon to be high in j1.21:13, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
did you
- Concerning eupedia, no I do not think it is acceptable according to Wikipedia. You can post a question about it at WP:SYNTH.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:08, 1 July 2013 (UTC)]
- And there is absolutely no way Wikipedia can state that Ishmael, Adam, Aaron or Abraham actually existed. Thus we can only say that according to tradition Ishmael is an ancestor of some Arab tribes or something like that. talk) 14:11, 1 July 2013 (UTC)]
- And there is absolutely no way Wikipedia can state that Ishmael, Adam, Aaron or Abraham actually existed. Thus we can only say that according to tradition Ishmael is an ancestor of some Arab tribes or something like that.
You will want to read
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Please do not add unsourced or original content, as you did with this edit to Haplogroup J-M267. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Eyesnore Summer! (PC) 20:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
- I did put semino 2004Valentino2013 (talk) 20:58, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
haplogroup P209 is Haplogroup J started 40,000 years a go and branched into J2 20,000 years ago (making the Greek, The Roman, The Celts, The Kurds, the Afgan , The Iranians, The Hindu, each one with a different branch from J2.
- J1 should be used instead of JM267, actually M267 is an old SNP is replaced by many snps to define j1 is easy to remember, and will easily differentiate from J2 ( instead of saying J-P209 etc)
the subclades are arranged as if parallel each other instead of being subclades of other subclades. The previous editors misunderstood the studies they refer to and add their own interpretation and mix. this J1 haplogroup page should be tagged as more attention by specialists.20:58, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
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July 2013
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- explain Genesis 25:16:"And they (children of Ishmael) dwelled from Hindikia (IndianOcean) toPalusa (Pelusiumt which is before Egypt as thou goest to Atur(Assyria)."
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- what is the copyright material I added to wikipedia?Valentino2013 (talk) 16:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I'm
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- L147.1 is the SNP marker for subclade J1a2b1 ISOGG-classification) down stream from [[SNP]] [[P58]] (J1a2b) a clade of [[Haplogroup J1]].
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Sources
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ISOGG
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- I think you would be much better off adding an ISOGG section to the genetic genealogy article. ISOGG is after all more of a club than anything else. --RebekahThorn (talk) 12:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
The recent edit you made to
14:30, 1 July 2013 (UTC) I am the one who added it and I am afraid it is copyright violation, because I am getting threats for CV sorry Valentino2013 (talk) 15:16, 1 July 2013 (UTC)Speedy deletion nomination of J1-P58
Hello Valentino2013,
I wanted to let you know that I just tagged
If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.
You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. 069952497aComments and complaintsStuff I've done 14:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC) I did not fill it with encyclopedic content , you should give me few days and I will make 100 pages usefull for people who come to wikipedia for help. I refer to the Wiki order not to delete well references material and the well made citations which I was being attacked by deletion every where I edit.Valentino2013 (talk) 15:14, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of J-P58
Hello Valentino2013,
I wanted to let you know that I just tagged
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You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. 069952497aComments and complaintsStuff I've done 14:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
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