Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of most-followed artists on Spotify (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Aside from some

WP:SINGLEVENDOR as reasons why this isn't suitable for inclusion; or in plain English, the facts that this is essentially a music chart from a single vendor, and that it is never going to be stable. I find the arguments favoring deletion stronger, and they have not been substantively rebutted. There is a fundamental issue with an article that's going to be permanently inaccurate. There is also a substantive numerical tilt towards deletion. Vanamonde (Talk) 11:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

List of most-followed artists on Spotify

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List of most-followed artists on Spotify (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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I noticed a discussion was started last year and the result was to keep the article based on the topic being notable i.e. a legitimate topic of interest. However, as I understand it, people are now sourcing direct from Spotify and so these numbers could fluctuate drastically? We don't use Spotify, iTunes, Deezer or AppleMusic (or any other vendor charts) across Wikipedia because they're non-static and change all the time (see

WP:VENDOR also says "It may be impossible to provide a stable source for the alleged ranking".... For such reasons, such rankings are usually avoided as Wikipedia content. On that basis, I know people feel strongly about such lists, but I would argue that a single vendor one that can change daily, monthly, weekly is not encyclopaedic. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Lists. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: hasn't the list always been sourced directly from the artists follower counts on their profiles though? I'm not aware of any chart that provides this data. Secondary media sources occasionally cover when artists reach certain milestones, but no one ever constantly publishes detailed data about it because followers are a dynamic stat. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 00:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      No it was previously sourced from Chart Masters which is a copyright violation and mirror of Spotify and also out of date. Follower count literally fluctuates every minute meaning this page could be constantly out of date every time its published. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 08:53, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      Oh. I forgot about that site since it's an unofficial source, so I got a little confused when you said "...other vendor chart" in your original post because ik there's no official chart that tracks Spotify followers, not even Spotify has an official list or ranking of that. I've been updating the page for about maybe 2 yrs roughly (iirc) and take stats directly from the artist profiles (I also added the secondary sources in the lead) since there's no other way to get the most up-to-date data. Secondary sources have covered follower stats over the years for various artists, but mostly do so for major milestones as opposed to publishing constant/regular updates. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 17:06, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per nom and
    WP:NOT. We document things like "number ones", but not the entire charts. If you want to know the most followes Spotify artist, you should be going to Spotify, not Wikipedia. We shouldn't be a barebones mirror to Spotify. Sergecross73 msg me 23:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
@Sergecross73: But on Spotify it isn't clear which artists have more followers than others. if you mean the artist rating in the box at the bottom of the page, it is based on monthly listeners which has a separate list.--Hamedkazemi2 (talk) 01:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The follows on spotify can be upped by bots, stream-farming is a thing as well. They really don't give much information and can be fakes/inflated. None of this is much for wiki notability, unless we create a discussion about stream farms and bot-inflation of numbers. Oaktree b (talk) 04:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nom and Serge's reasoning particularly. Spotify is a massive organisation, I'm sure that info can be found in dozens of listicles/data-vacuuming sites across the internet. WP has higher standards than that and this does not meet them for the reasons mentioned above. QuietHere (talk) 13:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have also the same question/concern of Piotrus. Where the numbers came from? Or I have the impression those numbers still taken from ChartMasters instead of Spotify. Please advise. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:31, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Its my understanding that the numbers come from Chart Masters, Twitter and a range of other sources including the artist's page on Spotify but is visible when you have the app/desktop version installed as opposed to the browser version. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 17:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can't speak for prior to when I put the page on my watchlist, but I take the numbers directly from the artist profiles on the desktop app. However, like Lil-unique1 said, it's a dynamic stat, so the list can never truly be up-to-date at any given point, regardless of whether the stats come from a primary source or a reliable secondary source. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 17:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument doesn't explain why per
WP:SINGLEVENDOR so why should this be any different? >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 16:00, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Consider also the option of Merging content proposed here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well in this case Spotify is unreliable as a primary source first and foremost, however adequate secondary sources (to which
cleanup. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 21:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
However, the secondary sources are still reporting on a vendor/retail.
WP:RECORDCHARTS both present the case that commerce or single retailers are not appropriate rankings. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 21:44, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
WP:VENDOR does not apply as there are stable, independent sources confirming the ranking as being relevant. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 22:04, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I don't think you understand what I mean.
WP:VENDOR both explain that rankings based on a single vendor are not encyclopaedic or appropriate for use on wikipedia. Although secondary sources confirm the content, the content they are confirming is still a single vendor chart/ranking which we would not deem usable in song articles, album articles or discographies. Although being popular on spotify has received coverage in reliable sources, we still would list it as relevant. Vendor says, When only self-published by the vendor, i.e. no reliable independent source confirming the ranking as being relevant, the ranking would usually carry insufficient weight to be mentioned in any article. Just because sources say "X artist is the most followed on spotify" does not mean that the ranking carries sufficient weight. That's the point I'm trying to make. An artist's popularity on Spotify (Amazon, Tidal, etc.) is a component of their overall chart success. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:29, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

WP:SINGLENETWORK does not apply.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 02:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

record charts. The number of followers an artist has on a platform is not a record chart, and so it does not apply in this case. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 21:44, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I disagree - a chart is just a ranking based on sales or streaming. Its a measure of popularity for a single or album. List of most-followed artists on Spotify is effectively a chart of artists popularity, much like Billboard's Top Artists chart. The only difference is that it isn't officially published by an independent body. Even if it was, there would be no way we would allow it - regardless of the "independent" publisher because it was based on a Single Vendor. I don't see why the same logic doesnt apply here. Additionally vendor rankings are not suitable for use on wikipedia. Third issue - its potentially always out of date. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:29, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that
WP:N in a case like this. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:24, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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