Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medals/Archive 6

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

The current project banner does not provide for article classification by quality and importance. Whilst ODM are usually, and should consistently be, tagged with one of the History Project tags (which do have quality and importance classifications), the importance to the field of ODM is often not the same as to history (which has a much broader ambit). The absence of this information also makes it difficult for us to profile articles in order to provide targetted editing effort.

I propose that the current banner be updated to incorporate the ability to categorise pages by importance, quality and project sub-area. Classification by project sub-area will require a little bit of thought. Whilst it makes sense for this to be done by country, the UK presents a special case as the Imperial system of honours and awards was extended over the Empire/Commonwealth for a siginificant period of time and is usually considered by affected countries to be a quasi-extension of their own system. My thought on this is that dual tagging would help solve this with affected pages tagged both 'United Kingdom' and 'Imperial - British Empire and Commonwealth'.

At the moment I am seeking 'in principle' consensus for the change and also welcome comments on implementation aspects. As I see it, there are two different aspects to decide - whether the change is needed and, if so, how to change it.

Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 01:11, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Agree in principle Aus, not sure yet about the dual tagging it may need a bit of testing to see if it works sensibly. MilborneOne (talk) 17:19, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Although Im a bit late to the conversation I also agree. Perhaps looking at the Way the MILHIST project task forces to start may help. --

talk

) 20:55, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

The related . You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page.

I have proposed on

I guess it is more correct. --Oliver Nouther (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The result of the CfD was to rename. This was effected when the CfD closed. AusTerrapin (talk) 14:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I've started some work on List of honorary British knights and dames, in particular trying to rework it into a table format, see Talk:List of honorary British knights and dames/Temp table version draft. As a part of the process, I hope to fill in a fair amount of missing information.

If anyone has any advice about any of this, I'm all ears. And your help would be dearly appreciated. :-) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:42, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll have a look at it and fill in what I can. A good place to search for information about British Honours is the London Gazette. Cheers. --Oliver Nouther (talk) 22:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Elephant, which is under the purview of this WikiProject, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:01, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The CfD result was to rename as part of an expansion to a wider grade-based schema. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 14:20, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

A CfM has been raised for the Knights by Occupation category schema. This currently affects the following category pages:

Propose renaming Category:Sporting knights to Category:Sportsmen awarded knighthoods

Propose renaming Category:Cricketing knights to Category:Cricketers awarded knighthoods

Propose renaming Category:Football knights to Category:Footballers awarded knighthoods or Category:Football personalities awarded knighthoods

Nominator's rationale: Rename per sibling categories for actors and actresses. I didn't check whether everyone in the category was awarded a British knighthood but if so the modifier can be included if desired. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 17:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Propose merging Category:Knights by occupation to Category:Knights

Propose merging Category:British knights by occupation to Category:Knights

Nominator's rationale: Merge - not needed for the subcats. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 17:44, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

The CfM is occurring here. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 21:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

CfM result for the first three categories was to rename as follows:

Category:Sporting knights to Category:Sports players and officials awarded knighthoods

Category:Cricketing knights to Category:Cricket players and officials awarded knighthoods

Category:Football knights to Category:Football players and officials awarded knighthoods

Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 19:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm unsure this page is worth the trouble, for the following reasons:

• It is mostly full of names of not-very-well-known people awarded CBE's, OBE's and MBE's. While it is of course marvelous that they were awarded, there is not much chance that we will ever have biographies on most of them.
• People keep inserting new names from time to time, unsourced, and it is hard to check if these are real or just pranks
• The page isn't particularly informative - it's just a huge list

There are several options:

1. Deletion
2. Refactoring to only include the "major" awards (KBE and similar)
3. Better sourcing - but it is difficult due to the annoying way the London Gazette website works

--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:37, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

IMO this would also apply to the rest of the Yearly New Years and Birthday Honours lists in this template Template:Honours Lists. --

talk

) 20:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think it would be better to source it better. We have {{London Gazette}} which makes it a bit easier. I think the Honours list as an entity is notable, each individual honours list is well covered and I don't see it clashing with our notability criteria. Just because it is annoying to maintain does not mean it should be deleted. (otherwise I would love to see half the footballers on my watchlist deleted ;) Woody (talk) 20:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi all.
I have just made my first major article here on Wikipedia (I have made a lot of minor edits and so on, on my old account), and I would appreciate that some of you guys check it out and give some feedback.. Here it is: Royal Order of the Omujwaara Kondo
Skibden (talk) 17:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

-- This also effects a significant number of related categories which have been listed as part of the same discussion. The intent is to assist in standardising the category schema and align it against that in use here on the english Wikipedia based on the projects adopted category schema. Contributions to the discussion on commons would be appreciated. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 14:26, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

FYI,

What is Iain Duncan Smith wearing below the poppy? [1] Kittybrewster ☎ 14:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks like a Royal British Legion badge. MilborneOne (talk) 21:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I suggest that the project should document, for guidance, criteria for rating the importance and class of articles. Class can probably follow other projects' precedents but importance needs to transcend national viewpoints (for this reason one project - WPMLHIST - has not used importance. For example, is a major award of a small country more important than minor awards of a major country; how do we guage the international repute of an award? Projects WPMILHIST and WPHERTS have documented criteria. Folks at 137 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

We didnt have a importance and class system in this project was it discussed before you User:Flyguy33 changed the templates and related pages? MilborneOne (talk) 23:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Not aware that I've changed any "templates and related pages"; don't know how. What are you referring to? Puzzled. Folks at 137 (talk) 12:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Apology it was User:Flyguy33 that changed the banner and other pages in the last week. MilborneOne (talk) 21:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey, sorry about just going ahead and doing this. I actually just noticed this conversation, clearly wasn't paying attention, but I believe in always having ratings and importance scales in project banners. --Flyguy33 (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, ratings have remained and are being used, despite the earlier discussions. If they are to remain, I restate my suggestion that criteria should be established, with the caveats. A case in point is the

According to http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/05/afghanistan.gates/

1979 invasion of Afghanistan

.

I am unable to find any mention of this Wazir Akbar Khan or the medal named after him. There is an article on

I mention all these details in the hope that someone can create an article about this highest award in Afghanistan that was given to Gates. 68.165.77.25 (talk) 19:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello all, the articles on

Is there already a article on this Greek award? I see the Cross of Valour's greek name is Arisition Andrias - is it related? GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Appears to be translated as the the Bravery Gold Medal of Greece but nearly all searches bring it up as an American award!File:Chryssoun Aristion Andrias Streamer.gif and [2] ? MilborneOne (talk) 21:24, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

That looks like the US Army's "preferred translation". Looking here [3], it seems that the transliteration is close, and there is a Gold Cross listed. If you have more sources on this award and can expand the article, that would be awesome. EricSerge (talk) 21:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I was intrigued because I saw it had been awarded to the 3rd US Infantry Division for the Korean war. I'm trying to work out what the "Chryssoun" bit means.GraemeLeggett (talk) 22:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Chrysoun Aristion Andrias means Golden Medal for Bravery.--46.246.178.119 (talk) 10:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

The category

Actually, I"m concerned about that pretty good list (although I agree with you that it is "pretty good"). Much of it is unreferenced, and I fear that some of it sounds like urban legend, for example the claim that "Henry Lascelles, 5th Earl of Harewood, GCVO (in 1922, as he thought marquessates tended to die out more quickly than earldoms)". There is no reference for that, and no mention of it in the article about him. I fear that a category would simply further spread the errors, if there are any.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 07:50, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article World Orders of Knighthood and Merit is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World Orders of Knighthood and Merit until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Decstop (talk) 19:54, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Note: This one was posted at

In the section structure we should include who are the high officials. (The Sovereign Head, The Grand Prior, The Lord Prior of St. John etc.) In fact I know only who is The Sovereign Head (Elizabeth II) and even if The Grand Prior and the others have not an article, if someone knows their names he/she should include them. Thanks!--46.246.166.248 (talk) 12:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I do wonder whether it's appropriate that short articles on military personnel have huge lists of coloured icons representing their medals, rather than perhaps linking to a centralised page that displays these icons. Not to decry their achievements, it seems to overbalance the informational aspect of WP's bio articles. Examples:

This was discussed recently at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Military history/Archive 104#.22Medal_bar.22 in biographical articles a lot of people didnt like it but I am not sure it came to any conclusions. Some of the decorations are not really notable but because they have an image and because it can be done they are all listed! MilborneOne (talk) 11:02, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

I have nominated

All awards/medals are established by way of Royal Warrant which are public documents. These RWs contain the actual 'criteria' for the award and I would suggest that it would be useful for anyone who has copies of the RWs to publish them in the page which refers to that award so we can see when the award was established and what the actual criteria are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Makfai (talk • contribs) 15:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi there is an ongoing discussion at

Thanks for the heads up, I wandered over and gave my two cents. I have been watching that one develop, but wasn't sure if input would be welcome. Some Wikiprojects seem territorial and since I am not a member I have just been watching as an outsider looking in. EricSerge (talk) 17:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Pitch in. This is wiki! Folks at 137 (talk) 11:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I was just browsing this page and I thought that there was something wrong with the picture. The medals are fine, but the image of the soldiers in it are reversed. Two things make this clear:
1. They are firing their rifles left-handed, (highly unlikely in the 19th century).
2. Their bayonet scabbards are to the right, (they should be over the left buttock, as they were when I was serving; as they still are today).

I have also left a note on the graphics talk page.

Regards

RASAM (talk) 14:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Are there any templates for displaying a user's military ribbons and medals as worn on his uniform? If not, how can I do it? Thank you. Allen (talk) 11:41, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

User:Gadget850 said that he uses the template "Quote box" to place ribbons into. Is that good, or is there a better way? Allen (talk) 03:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Is there an image for the Operational Distinguishing Device? It gets put on various ribbons. Can it get added as a device for the {{Ribbon devices}} template? Allen (talk) 00:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Did this ever get completed? I am a sailor in the

ribbon device}} template. However, since the Operational Distinguishing Device is not part of the template, I can't display the Device on the ribbon, as I wear it. How can this be accomplished? Thank you in advance for your help. Allen (Morriswa) (talk

) 23:36, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

This topic has faded away. Does the project wish to use quality and importance ratings (as do other projects), or not? One very active editor (not me) is getting agitated over judgements made on his work, so what's the view? Either we don't, in which case, some problems evaporate, or we do, in which case we need to establish criteria, etc. Folks at 137 (talk) 11:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

In relation to the article Jose Calugas, I am seeking assistance in identifying the medal underneath the Army of Occupation Medal.

The image that has the medal is this one. It is of a donated uniform that is in the Museo Iloilo in Iloilo.

Please message me on my talk page if anyone can figure this question out.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:30, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Alternatively, one can also post here. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

To follow up on Folks at 137's still unanswered question... I've been dishing out articles on Russian Federation and Soviet Union awards by the truck load for months now. The ratings criteria used in this WikiProject elude me a bit. Have a look at this one which was very recently honoured with a START rating Order of the Red Banner (if this is only worth a START, then I give up right here and right now). Then, go have a look at the board where all award articles are categorised by importance and rating. A mere 2 Good Articles out of a total of 2,646!! Does this make sense to anybody here? Either your criteria are completely nonsensical or you have none at all. Criteria MUST by mere definition be based on a norm, a standard, if only 2 of 2,646 meet them, then I submit they are a tad too high. 2 out of 2,646... Come on people! Fdutil (talk) 03:12, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

If they are pissing everyone off, then let's just get rid of them. They were added without consensus in the first place, so they can disappear just as easily. You need only to find someone who knows how to do that. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 19:10, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not a matter of being POd, it's how they are being used. Do you honestly believe that a mere 2 articles are GA out of 2646? No offense to anybody, but we can't be holier than the pope here. People find an article really good but downgrade it for the smallest of technicalities. Use the rating system but use some common sense with it... And PLEASE, if you rate an article, have the courtesy to include your reasoning in the article's talk page, give us 1/2 a chance at improving it. But slapping a START rating on an article simply because it's new is quite honestly, maddening! OK... I feel better now. Fdutil (talk) 04:59, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I am not sure that you understand the

Good Article process. We as Wikiproject members are not able to rate these as Good Articles. There is a long and involved process including a nomination process. If you have an article that you think meets the criteria I encourage you to submit it to the process. Let us know here on the message board that you listed it and some folks will likely help you through the process which can be somewhat maddening in and of itself. Cheers. EricSerge (talk

) 18:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll definitely look into it. Cheers! Fdutil (talk) 15:50, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Recent concerns have arisen about the article

I've come accross a problem that is beyond my limited knowledge to rectify... Two articles share the same Talk Page. Medal "In Commemoration of the 800th Anniversary of Moscow" and Medal "In Commemoration of the 850th Anniversary of Moscow". I'm pretty sure I'm responsible for this error with a typo in renaming one of the two articles. Can anybody here fix this? Fdutil (talk) 15:50, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Y Done. EricSerge (talk) 15:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

What took you so long? LMAO! Thanks! Cheers Fdutil (talk) 16:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Please drop by

I've been hitting a brick wall when trying to use pictures from other language wikis in my articles and I honestly don't understand why... Am I missing a trick? Take for example this article Order of the Red Banner of Labour, go to its Russian page, scroll down to the pictures of the older ribbonless Orders, neither is copyrighted, yet I am unable to use them, they simply won't appear in my article. Any special reason why? Thanks, Fdutil (talk) 02:54, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The images that you are tying to use are only uploaded to the Russian Wikipedia, thus only available on Russian Wikipedia pages. Go to commons.wikimedia.org and if you do a search for Order of the Red Banner of Labour you will see two similar images [4] [5]. Those should meet the unfilled need for those award variants. To use an image on the English Wikipedia it has to be uploaded to Commons or English Wikipedia. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 03:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Fdutil (talk) 04:02, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Another one

On the same vein, I have this image on the Afrikaans Wiki http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AAer:MTDBlint2.gif

It has been suggested that I move this to Commons but the tools provided aren't working for me Can anyone help? Gbawden (talk) 13:30, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

[6] Moved to Commons. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 14:08, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Commons Helper

If you cannot find the image on Commons and it is freely licensed on another Wikimedia project you can ust Commons Helper to move a file over. Check it out: Commons Helper. You will need to register at Toolserver User Screening Control. I suppose it prevents spam. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 14:14, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of the Padma Vibhushan, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, looks like it became a speedy keep shortly after your note. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 13:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

A request for comment has been filed regarding the use of "Sir" in Donald Tsang's biography. Please join the discussion here. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 13:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but please take a look at Wikipedia talk:Categorization#Overcategorisation from orders, decorations and medals categories?. Thank you. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm coming here with an appeal for some outside input at

An RfC has been started at

Thanks. I figured you would just wait the anon out. They will lose interest eventually, just like a troll loses interest when you do not feed it. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 20:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Greetings Wikiproject! I am taking a shot at raising an article to

Here is my two cents, for what its worth. I wrote/translated a couple of French medal articles a while back. At that time I went with the French, but that was before

Croix de guerre should probably become a disambig page since that generic term refers to several different awards/decorations. Cheers. EricSerge (talk

) 18:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Tuppence from me. Croix de guerre is a name commonly used, and I dont think you will find many instances in the text of wikipedia articles at the moment that refer to the "French War Cross of 1939-45". The sheer numbers of links to the French spelling (300 or so for the 1939-45award, and I stopped counting for the

Croix de guerre article) imply that changes would be a very significant move from the current position. GraemeLeggett (talk

) 06:22, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to mention, Project guidelines do not take precedence over community wide guidelines or consensus (which is what builds the guidelines). GraemeLeggett (talk) 06:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Fdutil moved the Croix de guerre articles and the Médaille Militaire to English translations. I have moved them back, as I have never seen any evidence that these are commonly translated into English. Our overriding guide is

WP:COMMONNAME and the common names for these awards remain the original French. Despite some editors' obsessions to the contrary, foreign names should never be translated unless they are commonly translated in the sources. This is certainly not the case here. -- Necrothesp (talk

) 15:33, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I've just moved an article I've been drafting on the Legion of Merit of Chile to the main space. I am reluctant to self-rate it beyond C class, but I think it meets B class requirements and might be approaching GA. Could someone do a B-class review? Spanish language skills or a willingness to use an online translator would be useful for source verification as there were precious few English language sources that I could find. Any feedback on whether it is in the ballpark for GA review would also be appreciated. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

There seems some contradiction between the

Rich Farmbrough, 17:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC).

Try this link. Page 2-24 has a list of time periods that would have qualified for the strike number. Intothatdarkness 17:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I probably expressed myself badly. I should have said "Here's a table relating to the various services additions for multiple awards of the Air Medal. It's not great but it's the best I can do. If the experts can make it presentable and put it in the article, that would be a good thing. Good luck, should you choose to do so." Rich Farmbrough, 20:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC).

File:Hamburg1843Medal.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 08:24, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Blood Donor (3rd Class) badge.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diana Babar, which impacts on this project. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:33, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any mention of it here, so thought I would leave a note to say that that more than 20 categories relating to military awards and decorations have been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 September 20. the nominations are grouped in several separate discussions.

I think that the categories concerned fall within the scope of this project. (copied from WikiProject Military history).

What do people think about dividing the categories for recipients of the Order of the Bath (GCB, KCB, DCB, CB) Order of the British Empire (GBE, KBE, DBE, CBE, OBE, MBE) and Hanoverian Guelphic Order (GCH, KCH, KH) into civil and military divisions? This would group people who were given the order for similar reasons. The existing categories could remain as parent categories, and for those people whose division had not (yet) been established. Opera hat (talk) 14:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Not sure it is that important or encyclopedic to split the cats up, it is hardly if at all mentioned outside the original London Gazette entries. MilborneOne (talk) 16:28, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't really think it's necessary. It's the same decoration, after all. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Though the badge (for the Bath) and the riband (for the British Empire) are different. Opera hat (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Only slightly, and the postnoms are identical. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board#Sub-dividing honours categories about dividing the British orders into periods or when awarded sub-categories. MilborneOne (talk) 08:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

file:Officer of the Order of Canada (female).jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 07:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

When looking for information about a country's honours system:

• Some articles are named "Orders, decorations, and medals of <countryname>". (e.g.
  NZ, UK
  , etc.)
• Others are named "<countryname> honours system". (e.g.
  Japan
  .)
• A third group uses other names. (e.g.
  Vietnam awards and decorations
  , etc.)
• And a fourth group spreads them over several pages. (e.g. Czech Republic, Germany, Pakistan, US, etc.)
• Some of these pages contain both the description of the system, AND of the orders/decorations/medals (ODM).
• Some split the system description from the ODM description onto separate pages.
• And some only include the ODM, with no description of the system.

Is/are there any standard(s) and/or consistency in any of this? Pdfpdf (talk) 11:42, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

file:Dist Mil-Pilot GDR med.pdf has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:32, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

file:1st Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF) Navy Unit Commendation Citation 2004-2005 Iraq War.pdf has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

A large number of Victoria's Cross holders' images are up for deletion, see

What is needed to fix this issue? I would be surprised if any VC photo violates copyright. I am familiar with many of these photos which have been published in multiple publications over many years. They are clearly in the public domain and I am happy to certify same and wonder how to do this. Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

You'd need to check the nominator's rationales, and rebut the points used or fix the issues. Just go to

WP:PUF and look through each nomination. Then add the missing information to the file page, and respond to the nomination, or rebut the point of the nominator at the nomination. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk

) 01:59, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Henry Edward Manning Douglas VC.jpg has been nominated for speedy deletion. I think this is related to the massive number of VC images up for deletion in the section above. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

To Anthony Staunton ; I do not know how to properly contest this sort of deletion. The procedure is very screwed up. Once upon a time, you could use the {{

WP:FFD, but that never happens. If you wish to contest this deletion, I suggest trying to convert it to an FFD and then objecting to it, but I don't know what will happen, since apparently, removing speedy deletion templates is considered vandalism. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk

) 04:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This photo is in the public domain. It was first published in the UK in 1904 in the History of the Victoria Cross by Philip A Wilkins. The work was republished in the US in 1970 and again last year. It therefore complies with UK copyright having been published prior to 1943 and US copyright having been first published in the US prior to 1996. I find the suggestion bizarre that the standard portrait of a VC recipient is not in the public domain. While most if not all the photos were first been published in the press, there have been many VC books, Wilkins (1904), Creagh & Humphris (1921), Roe (1946), The Register of the VC (1981, 1988, 1997) and David Harvey (1999) featuring all available photographs of VC recipients. I have all these books and if there is a bot available I am happy to to verify VC photos. Anthony Staunton (talk) 11:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

If you can provide that kind of publication history for the other photos, then I'd suggest you add them to the other VC photo file pages and their deletion discussions. (Note: Not all the VC photos use "VC" as part of their filenames) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 16:02, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

file:Canada Volunteer Medal of Honour.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 05:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Wmcross.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 01:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.250.103 (talk)

Is there any reason Boris Trajkovski would have been awarded a substantive knighthood as claimed in his article? Hack (talk) 08:33, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

No. He is not a British/Commonwealth citizen, therefore it would be honorary. However, the source that claims his GCMG would not open, so that should probably be found again. For a deceased head of state, his article is under referenced. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 13:05, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I couldn't find an entry in the London Gazette so wasn't 100% sure 1) it was legit and 2) whether he may have had gained or inherited some form of British/Commonwealth citizenship. Hack (talk) 13:12, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

image:MeritMedal.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 13:24, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Several VC holders' photos are up for deletion, see Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_May_22 -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 08:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Nearly all of these articles are in French, where would I put a request to translate & move them to the English title? It is very hard to navigate the category as I do not know French. Mind that it is not even fully French it is a weird mix of English and French such as

No, we do not need to translate titles unless they are commonly translated in the sources. Is the Order des Palmes Académiques commonly translated to Academic Palms? I would doubt it, given that's a very odd name in English. To assume that everything needs to be translated into English on Wikipedia even if it usually isn't in real life is a fundamental misunderstanding of

WP:USEENGLISH. -- Necrothesp (talk

) 08:37, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

For starters there is no consistency in the category. Article names exist for the reader to immediately know what the content is about. We regularly translate awards to English all over the site and I do not see any reason why French should be given an exception. otherwise Category:Civil awards and decorations of Russia would be in Cyrillic alphabet making it completely illegible to me.

Furthermore Chevalier of the Ordre des Palmes Académiques is neither English nor French. What is Chevalier? What does Ordre mean? What is a Palmes? With intuition I can infer that "Académiques" supposed to relate to academia in some shape or form but even then I do not know how the topic relates to academia. Article names and especially category names should be an English translation for awards unless there is a very good reason not to.

--

chi?

20:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

No, we don't translate everything into English. We use the form that is commonly used in the English-language literature, as is clearly stated in

WP:USEENGLISH. If that's English then we use English, if it's French then we use French. Do we translate Baton Rouge, Louisiana into Red Stick, Louisiana because it's in (bastardised) French? No, we clearly do not, because the English-language sources use the former name. And French isn't any form of exception; we do the same with all languages. Your point about Cyrillic confuses translation with transliteration. We obviously do the latter if something is in a different alphabet; we do not necessarily do the former, since we can still read it even if we don't know what it means (and all we have to do to find out what it means is read the article, usually the first paragraph). -- Necrothesp (talk

) 13:46, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to be able to read what awards mean (article title) unless there is a good reason against this. You haven't provided such a reason. --

chi?

16:56, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes I have.

WP:USEENGLISH and my entire paragraph above. Why do you think everything needs to be explained in article titles? That's what the article is for. -- Necrothesp (talk

) 13:26, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Nazi medals images up for deletion

• File:LongServe25orwm.jpg
• File:LongServe25owm.jpg
• File:LongServe25rwm.jpg
• File:LongServe40or.jpg
• File:LongServe40owm.jpg
• File:LongServe40rwm.jpg
• File:LongServe50bwm.jpg

have been nominated for deletion -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 05:54, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Order of the National Hero.jpg

image:Order of the National Hero.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 01:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Not all recipients of the Dickin Medal have articles

It's my hope that by stating here that there are still several recipients of the

Dicken Medal that might help us get started. Thank you for your kind interest in this matter. Chrisrus (talk

) 03:37, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Velered kralja Tomislava.jpg

image:Velered kralja Tomislava.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

AWLA 70th Anniversary Brooch.jpg

image:AWLA 70th Anniversary Brooch.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:18, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Question at Reference Desk - converting knighthoods

Just wondering if someone might be able to shed light on this question at the Reference Desk. Thanks. Hack (talk) 08:34, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Gallant Order of the Crown of Kelantan - DPKK&PKK

File:Yahyawi Order of the Crown of Kelantan (DPKK and PKK).gif

Which design is correct, the left one or the right one? The GIF version has been nominated for deletion as being redundant with the SVG one, but they are clearly different. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:20, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Орден святого Михаила Архангела1988г.jpg

image:Орден святого Михаила Архангела1988г.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 09:09, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hilal-e-Jurat Pak Military Award.jpg

image:Hilal-e-Jurat Pak Military Award.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Lieutenant FW Harvey DCM.jpg

File:Lieutenant FW Harvey DCM.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 08:08, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:Commandeurs of the Légion d'honneur

Category:Commandeurs of the Légion d'honneur has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 06:15, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Many awards and orders categories are up for deletion

See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_11 for the nominations -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 05:18, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 10 and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 8 -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 08:16, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 12 and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 13 -- 70.24.244.158 (talk) 06:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I hope members of this WikiProject can weigh in on these discussions at CfD. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:39, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of the Military Order of the Cross of the Eagle

Category:Recipients of the Military Order of the Cross of the Eagle, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:23, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Grand Cross Star greece.jpg

image:Grand Cross Star greece.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.249.39 (talk) 04:10, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of Meritorious Service medals

Category:Recipients of Meritorious Service medals, which might be within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Here is the proposal:

• Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Meritorious Service Medal (United States) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  
• Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Defense Meritorious Service Medal (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:09, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

DISCUSSION on language used in article title

Please drop by

Ordre de la Libération

TALK page. Fdutil (talk) 15:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

MBE recipients all notable or not?

Can someone let me know if having an

MBE makes a person notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, or would that require additional notability? I need to know because I am putting together a biography draft here. Thanks. Invertzoo (talk

) 14:17, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Most certainly not. It has generally been established that recipients of any award lower than the CBE are not inherently notable, but holders of the CBE and above generally are. Anslyn is not inherently notable because of his MBE, although he may be borderline notable because of his achievements and media coverage. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:09, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your note Necrothesp. I appreciate your input. I have not created many biographies, so there is a lot I don't know on that front. Invertzoo (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Concensus sought in award name

Please have a look and leave your opinion on the matter. "Badge of honor" versus "decoration". [[7]] Fdutil (talk) 16:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Photo deletions gone mad

Seems I now have the full attention of a few people in Commons who'se goal in life is to delete my personnal photos from my personnal collection of medals. I have neither the patience not the will to deal with this level of stupidity... Cheers! I am out of here. Was fun for a while but I refuse to fight for the right to contribute. Fdutil (talk) 15:43, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Which of those awards make a person notable?

See Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#The_person_has_received_a_well-known_and_significant_award_or_honor.2C_or_has_been_nominated_for_one_several_times.. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:53, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm. Interesting. There are many bits of WP policy I have a problem with - this is an example. I would say that, in general, people get an honour because they are notable. (Or because they have done something notable.) Not the reverse. When WP policy makes a statement like that, I believe it is putting the cart before the horse. My 2cents worth, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:29, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Of course, not withstanding the fact that not everyone who gets an honour is notable ... Pdfpdf (talk) 12:39, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

(

WP:ACADEMIC specifies professors holding distinguished chairs or certain fellowships. While there were certainly scholastic reasons for those distinctions, I've found it harder to determine what actions by which the honored recipient is notable. For example, the reasons for awards of the Nobel Prize (with notable exception) are easily found and described. If the consensus was that having the award was a qualifier of notability (placing trust in the Nobel Committee's decisions), it wouldn't matter if we could immediately determine why the Prize was awarded. For lesser-known more-academic awards this is an issue for editors working AfC or AfD. Chris Troutman (talk

) 12:43, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. (i.e. No disagreement from me.) Pdfpdf (talk) 12:47, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Jeez! How many pages have you spammed?

• Here
• Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)
• Talk:List of prizes, medals and awards
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Awards and prizes

How about choosing ONE page as the "main one", and having the others point to it? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:53, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

The main point of this criterion is to avoid people who have received a significant award or honour from being deleted because little else can be found on them. Of course people receive honours for being notable, but the fact they have received an honour indicates they are notable. There have been many AfDs where people with significant honours (like knighthoods) have been proposed for deletion because the nominator didn't put two and two together and realise that receiving such a high honour was an indication of notability. The AfDs have invariably been defeated. The criterion therefore works. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:55, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Legion of Merit (Foreign recipients)

Is there a reliable source listing all foreign recipients of Legion of Merit? Actually I am looking for "Mian Ata Rabbani" or "M A Rabbani" of Pakistan, who in his book claims to have received it in 1964 while he was Pakistan's Air Attache in Washington, but I can't verify it from secondary sources. Can someone please help? Thanks -- SMS ^Talk 23:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Louisiana National Guard awards

The ribbons at

Awards and decorations of the National Guard § Louisiana are flagged to be moved to commons (with {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}}) since 2011-09-11, but haven't been moved. They were uploaded in 2009 by User:BrassTacks as their own work and are released into the public domain. Is there a reason these haven't been moved? Is there a bot that does this or is it just a matter of manually doing it (and should I)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlanM1 (talk • contribs

) 18:28, 12 February 2014‎

Waterloo Medal

There is an article called

plagiarism guideline's

requirements. The book (and chapter) from which I copied the text is:

• Royal Numismatic Society (1869). "On English and Foreign Waterloo Medals". The Numismatic Chronicle. Vol. 9. Royal Numismatic Society (Great Britain). {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

The Royal Numismatic Society article list five medals for the Waterloo campaign:

1. British Waterloo Medal (British Army and King's German Legion)
2. Brunswick Waterloo Medal
3. Hanoverian Waterloo Medal
4. Nassau Waterloo Medal
5. Prussian Waterloo Medal

I am not very interested in this subject and only wrote the Hanoverian Waterloo Medal because the subject of the biography I was editing mentioned it. But for someone interested in the subject it should be easy to create a similar article by cut and pasting the text from the chapter (along with the picture of the medal) and then giving it a small copy edit. (For those who do not know the text in a copyright expired Google book can be cut and pasted via the menu option "plain text" found under the cogwheel symbol at the top right of the page of the Google book).

I hope this is of interest and help to someone. -- PBS (talk) 12:03, 5 March 2014 (UTC)